Do any genuine DPRK defenders have sources or statistics to help me break my brainwashing or whatever because all I have ever seen are reasons to oppose and people saying yeah but what if that’s not actually true.
Thanks for the links. I’m curious if you see North Korea as an actual positive example of state governance or socialism, or if you simply mean to point out certain specific myths?
The haircut video is an interesting demonstration of how state-run media spreads falsehoods, but overall it’s really more of an indictment of America than a defense of North Korea. South Korea paying people makes sense, I never really gave defectors too much credence anyway. The interview is interesting but I wish it were longer and more in-depth.
The DPRK is a success story, they succeeded in defeating both the Japanese and US imperialists (despite the US killing 1/5 of their citizens), fought the US comprador government to a standstill (which still serves as a US military base and carries out attacks and propaganda against the DPRK), and made it through the incredibly hard period of the 90s (the arduous march) after the fall of the USSR.
Socialism can take on many forms, all of which can’t be divorced from the historical context in which they arose. Other comrades can give some deep dives into the DPRK’s governance system, which can show how it’s far more democratic than the capitalist dictatorship in the south.
We should all admire the DPRK for standing up to the US empire, and debunk the lies told about it first and foremost. Liberals tend to think its mordor or something, when in reality its a country where ppl go to work and live regular lives like any other.
Point taken that they overcame adversity and that there is propaganda against them. To be fair, that can be said to varying degrees about a lot of countries.
Everyone has reasons to do propaganda but if you’re mostly exposed to western media then it’s definitely a good idea to fact check everything they say about their geopolitical enemies, because they’re always gonna be slandered to hell and even in countries with actual problematic leadership the idea isn’t to uncritically defend them but just push back against narratives that will never serve the people in those countries regardless
What does good mean here? That’s a very vague idea by which to classify entire societies, it would probably serve our understanding better to have more concrete criteria. For example, I would say the continued existence of the DPRK has had a net positive effect on the development of the global south: their development under seige has created a blueprint for other countries to examine, they counterbalance the power of imperial vassals in the region such as Japan, and the military deterrence they provide against US aggression has most likely saved a lot of lives.
Yeah good is a Rorschach word. I interpret it in the context of states as in broad alignment with whatever political values you hold. If geopolitical positioning is what you care about them sure they might be good.
if your attention span has been ruined by social media like mine is; madeline pendelton does short form videos that touches on it and she backs it up with a linktree full of sources and north korea seems to be her favorite topic. she’s also on almost all of the social media platforms and you should be aware that her videos comment are mostly filled with hate from brainwashed people.
she also does a twich channel where she goes over the current news and explains the propaganda in it; i watch it everyday.
google can’t even find this xtian divine person; so post your source instead of baseless accusations, but don’t bother if it’s a carefully stitched, out-of-context talking points.
I did spell it wrong, its xiandivyne but here is one of the response videos. His tiktok. Decide what you want, I know you will anyway. But if we allow racists who disingenuously represent black ppl to lead the conversations, we will keep getting more trumps instead of Harris’s and the world will keep getting more fascistic and capitalistic.
Thanks for the link. The source doesn’t really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
A citizen who has committed an act of treason against the state, such as by betraying the State and
escaping to another country or surrendering, defecting or giving over secrets, shall be sentenced to a
term of reform through labour of more than 5 years. In particularly grave cases, he or she shall be
sentenced to life-term of reform through labour or to the death penalty and confiscation of
property.
This doesn’t sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
I know you didn’t ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it’s a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it’s bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you’re going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
제63조 (조국반역죄)
공민이 조국을 배반하고 다른 나라로 도망쳤거나 투항, 변절하였거나 비밀을 넘겨준것과 같은 조국반역행위를 한 경우에는 5년이상의 로동교화형에 처한다. 정상이 특히 무거운 경우에는 무기로동교화형 또는 사형 및 재산몰수형에 처한다.
edit
“공민” meaning “citizen,” suffixed with “이” probably marking the the noun as the subject.
“조국” meaning “motherland,” suffixed with “을” “indicates the future intention of the subject.”
“배반” means “betrayal, treachery, [or] treason,” suffixed with “하고” meaning “and” or “with.”
“다른” means “different, [or] other.”
“나라” means “country,” suffixed with “로” meaning “to, [or] toward.”
It is presumably “도망쳤거” although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with “도망” that all mean “to flee, to escape.” Presumably suffixed with “나” I think meaning “or”
“투항” meaning “surrender”
So a very literal translation might be something like “citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender” … and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
Do any genuine DPRK defenders have sources or statistics to help me break my brainwashing or whatever because all I have ever seen are reasons to oppose and people saying yeah but what if that’s not actually true.
Some introductory de-brainwashing links:
Thanks for the links. I’m curious if you see North Korea as an actual positive example of state governance or socialism, or if you simply mean to point out certain specific myths?
The haircut video is an interesting demonstration of how state-run media spreads falsehoods, but overall it’s really more of an indictment of America than a defense of North Korea. South Korea paying people makes sense, I never really gave defectors too much credence anyway. The interview is interesting but I wish it were longer and more in-depth.
The DPRK is a success story, they succeeded in defeating both the Japanese and US imperialists (despite the US killing 1/5 of their citizens), fought the US comprador government to a standstill (which still serves as a US military base and carries out attacks and propaganda against the DPRK), and made it through the incredibly hard period of the 90s (the arduous march) after the fall of the USSR.
Socialism can take on many forms, all of which can’t be divorced from the historical context in which they arose. Other comrades can give some deep dives into the DPRK’s governance system, which can show how it’s far more democratic than the capitalist dictatorship in the south.
We should all admire the DPRK for standing up to the US empire, and debunk the lies told about it first and foremost. Liberals tend to think its mordor or something, when in reality its a country where ppl go to work and live regular lives like any other.
Point taken that they overcame adversity and that there is propaganda against them. To be fair, that can be said to varying degrees about a lot of countries.
Everyone has reasons to do propaganda but if you’re mostly exposed to western media then it’s definitely a good idea to fact check everything they say about their geopolitical enemies, because they’re always gonna be slandered to hell and even in countries with actual problematic leadership the idea isn’t to uncritically defend them but just push back against narratives that will never serve the people in those countries regardless
Fair enough. The original meme seems to suggest, though, not just that people are subject to propaganda, but that North Korea is, in fact, good.
What does good mean here? That’s a very vague idea by which to classify entire societies, it would probably serve our understanding better to have more concrete criteria. For example, I would say the continued existence of the DPRK has had a net positive effect on the development of the global south: their development under seige has created a blueprint for other countries to examine, they counterbalance the power of imperial vassals in the region such as Japan, and the military deterrence they provide against US aggression has most likely saved a lot of lives.
Yeah good is a Rorschach word. I interpret it in the context of states as in broad alignment with whatever political values you hold. If geopolitical positioning is what you care about them sure they might be good.
if your attention span has been ruined by social media like mine is; madeline pendelton does short form videos that touches on it and she backs it up with a linktree full of sources and north korea seems to be her favorite topic. she’s also on almost all of the social media platforms and you should be aware that her videos comment are mostly filled with hate from brainwashed people.
she also does a twich channel where she goes over the current news and explains the propaganda in it; i watch it everyday.
here’s the most recent video of hers that i shared: https://www.tiktok.com/@madeline_pendleton/video/7610963982198770975
Stopped reading and Madeline Pendelton. I dont trust people who are racist.
leftists aren’t racists; that’s only liberals and conservatives.
Im not generalizing. Im talking specifically about Pendleton.
so am i and pendelton is not racist
Her crashout against Xtian Divine on tiktok was plenty of proof that she’s a racist person.
google can’t even find this xtian divine person; so post your source instead of baseless accusations, but don’t bother if it’s a carefully stitched, out-of-context talking points.
I did spell it wrong, its xiandivyne but here is one of the response videos. His tiktok. Decide what you want, I know you will anyway. But if we allow racists who disingenuously represent black ppl to lead the conversations, we will keep getting more trumps instead of Harris’s and the world will keep getting more fascistic and capitalistic.
Thanks for the link. The source doesn’t really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
From the Article 63 of this 2015 criminal law document:
This doesn’t sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
They absolutely are. I met more than one during my many years in university.
You very clearly misread this. It’s a crime to commit treason and then escape. AND. “escaping” to another country is not a crime.
Do you have a take on 2 and 3
I know you didn’t ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it’s a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Section 34 of the Army Act 1950
and so on.
Are you suggesting that these laws only apply during active service in the military?
No that’s not at all what I said.
The examples you site as comparable to 2 are military laws.
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it’s bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you’re going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
I am totally open to looking beyond western sources. Do you have a link to a non-western translation of North Korean criminal law?
it’s in her linktree; the video says so.
did you even watch the video? because it’s starting to feel like you’re being willfully ignorant here.
Genuinely, I do not see that in her linktree. She links to this document for information about North Korea: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPJjTYGBo4QRuafFkbWTA8imbpr-QP3tD_946Yv_v3A/edit?tab=t.0
I do not see a translation of North Korean criminal law in the document.
she doing her live stream on twich right now as she does almost every day; ask her for this specific one.
https://www.twitch.tv/madelinependleton
I think I found the original on https://www.unilaw.go.kr/bbs/selectBoardList.do?bbsId=BBSMSTR_000000000021&bbsSubId=008 (number 5 “형법”)
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
edit
“공민” meaning “citizen,” suffixed with “이” probably marking the the noun as the subject.
“조국” meaning “motherland,” suffixed with “을” “indicates the future intention of the subject.”
“배반” means “betrayal, treachery, [or] treason,” suffixed with “하고” meaning “and” or “with.”
“다른” means “different, [or] other.”
“나라” means “country,” suffixed with “로” meaning “to, [or] toward.”
It is presumably “도망쳤거” although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with “도망” that all mean “to flee, to escape.” Presumably suffixed with “나” I think meaning “or”
“투항” meaning “surrender”
So a very literal translation might be something like “citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender” … and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.