The new American dream: to move away from the nightmare that America has become.
Still haven’t abandoned that “dream” of nuclear family of four. Same dream, different venue. And if that’s your dream; great, you found your spot. But there’s no one dream.
I’m sure China, Thailand or somewhere like that is great to go to for a while if you’re being paid a salary meant for the US or Europe. I doubt the people who have always lived there see the value at all and have all sorts of bullshit that a visitor probably doesn’t even see. Especially for China that imposes all kinds of social controls that highly restrict free expression, free movement, etc.
There’s a lot of places that heavily lured digital nomads for a time that ended up pissing off tons of locals when rent went up across the board.
it’s trading one capitalist place for another. china is just a unit of measure ahead in terms of tech, social programs, healthcare, and such.
i worry that US corps will be pushed to not allow remote work from other countries when enough of us do move the hell away.
Unlike other countries America taxes you if you live here or not. The main barrier to people living cheaper lifestyles abroad is their obligation to continue to pay American taxes for what amounts to no benefit.
The main barrier to people living cheaper lifestyles abroad is their obligation to continue to pay American taxes for what amounts to no benefit.
This is a myth perpetrated by rich people. It’s similar to the handwringing about the estate tax. It’s just rich people bitching. The first $133k of foreign earned income is completely tax free. And additionally, any foreign taxes paid can be deducted as tax credits. So if you would normally owe $10k in taxes to the US government, but you paid $8k in taxes while living abroad to a foreign government, you’ll only owe the IRS $2k.
The idea that this is a substantial barrier to middle class people moving abroad for a cheaper lifestyle is just fucking comical. It’s only a problem if you are very, very wealthy. And even the very wealthy don’t end up getting double-taxed. No one who moves overseas for cost of living reasons is going to have to worry about taxes being a problem.
their obligation to continue to pay American taxes for what amounts to no benefit.
I thought Americans didn’t like “taxation without representation”…
You still have the right to vote as a US citizen living abroad. The only taxation without representation is of people living in the US on a visa or green card.
And residents of DC, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, USVI, and the Northern Mariana Islands. Probably the rest of the territories too, but those ones have members of Congress that aren’t allowed to vote.
You can vote overseas…
Its actually ironic that people in Puerto Rico don’t even get representation but if you last lived in the 50 states and then go abroad, you can mail your vote.
Oh yeah China is great when you’re a rich person. Becasue paying $1000 rent and $100 groceries makes you upper class over there.
People tend to forget that China sucks.Couldn’t the same be said of the west, except that rent and food are 3-4 times those amounts?
Another thing people don’t mention is their job. Most of the time they’re working remote so they’re still benefitting from their American pay. I had an acquaintance who lived in China for a year because he wanted to find himself or something. He said most of the apartments look like concrete boxes and their is barely any hot water.
The article clearly states that he is working in China as an English teacher.
You think i read the article? Thats cute 😂
The water is one thing. But I always heard the concrete box apartments are just how they’re sold. They mass produce concrete apartment blocks. But the idea isn’t that you’re supposed to just live in the box. When you buy an apartment, you’re buying an empty shell, a blank canvas. The intention is that after buying it, you will then put in the money to outfit it with drywall or other interior finishings of your choice. Though I imagine there are scummy landlords that just rent out the bare concrete boxes.
If you’re that easily swayed by a propaganda article in which I doubt “the family” exists, please move there because it’s a lot better. You’ll be crying in a month, I guarantee it. Lived there 5 years myself, it’s 100% the land of lies and fasods.
Facades.
Faykades
Falklands
Chinese Whispers!
“I don’t like that I could be wrong, so this guy doesn’t exist.”
Really the most propagandized people on the planet. No one else can be happy outside of America!
Not everyone can feasibly do this, you need to speak mandarin + read/write chinese, legally be able to work, and have some way to deal with the gfw. Also tap water may not be drinkable but thats more of a nuisance since you can filter/boil it.
Also idk what the article is talking about with flying delivery drones and self driving cars in shenzhen, if you order meituan delivery its probably gonna be delivered by a gig worker on a scooter cuz thats all young people can get employed as these days. Delivery is insanely cheap and can’t possibly pay much, but also cost of living is relatively low, but still shenzhen is on the expensive end as far as living in china goes.
Finally paying for everything via alipay/wechat and visiting everywhere with biometrics is yet another convenience/privacy tradeoff. Visit china on a 10 year tourist visa, everywhere you go by train, every tourist attraction or national park you visit, every digital payment, is all linked to your passport. Equivalent for chinese citizens would be the national id card/number. China more or less skipped the credit card adoption phase afaik. Not that places won’t take cash but it’s less common especially in cities.
China is not a magical land where everything is perfect and futuristic. It’s a big country with a lot of people in many, many big cities that operates on totally different cultural systems. It is affordable from the perspective of a tourist who earns USD/Euro etc.
Source: I spent a month there in 2025
Didn’t read to be clear, but the buildings in Shenzhen are new enough that simple filtering should be OK. (Was there just a month ago)
Note: For travelers I would recommend bottled water anyway.
I also lived in Shenzhen, except for years. All deliveries are guys on scooters. The drone shit is a fantasy that they make videos of but never actually happens (just like the Sea World water light show). All the tech is janky as fuck and the locals work around and despite the tech. The rich treat the locals like slaves, and some have slaves (usually Filipino). Every bathroom smells like piss and shit because they don’t use bleach or any cleaners. And finally the water is undrinkable and “neighbor smell” (look it up) makes you want to vomit every morning.
Plus, delivery drones have one fatal flaw that always gets glossed over - they’re loud as hell. Even if the tech can be made to work right, people simply don’t want to put up with that much constant high-pitched noise. If a company ever did figure out large-scale drone delivery, delivery drones would be immediately banned due to the sheer annoyance of the damn things.
Paying for everything with Visa/MasterCard is better? I feel like a lot of people’s issues with “privacy” around China are correct. But for some reason are ok with the same exact things in the US/West.
In the West we share literally all of the privacy concerns you mentioned above but instead of them being clearly outlined and regulated by our government; they are instead entirely controlled by private companies that use and sell the information for profit.
I guess it’s the illusion of privacy, or really the abstraction of it being violated, that makes people in the west feel like China is somehow doing something different. They aren’t, they are just upfront about their tracking and data collection.
In China they have CCTV. In the US we have Ring. Like, people literally put Ring cameras INSIDE there house willingly. It blows my mind. And the idea that in the US that it’s “decentralized” or “not available to the government” is a lie.
I guess my point is. You’re not wrong about the payment processing or the privacy concerns in China. But, you live with the same exact thing in the west every single day. Arguably worse because your data is being controlled by a CEO for profit and they’re selling that to anyone and everyone. On top of being given to your government.
Edit: I did agree with the concerns of the original comment over privacy in China. So, id really appreciate a response comment rather than a downvote only. My comment is meant to criticize the US/West (the system most people reading this live under). I wasn’t trying to justify China. I am a huge fan of China and it’s progress in many ways. At least in terms of learning from their success. But one major criticism I have of them is their level of surveillance and, what I see as now unnecessary, levels of control on speech related to government criticism. So, id ordinarily be a “look at their high speed rail” Andy on this topic. I am very critical of China when it comes to this specific issue; and see it as a major weakness for them that they need to address. But, since I live in the west. I want to make people aware that this issue also exists here. I am more critical of my own country because I live under it. And being distracted by China’s problems instead of our own is a major failure.
Yeah. Anywhere would basically be like this if you have enough money to retire luxuriously in that country. And anywhere you do that, poorer people will be making that lifestyle possible with their labor.
While I don’t doubt that the average urban Chinese citizen has a higher standard of living than the average urban US citizen, saying that moving to a poorer country where you are rich by comparison is “the american dream” is pretty wild when you’re just taking advantage of economic disparities caused by capitalism.
It’s irresponsible to move somewhere permanently when you don’t plan on really trying to integrate & instead just want to live cheaply as an expat.
Such BS about privacy payoff. Do you know what your banks and venmo know about you? Your chip in your phone or credit card, allows companies to target ads in real time. That’s the reality in the US but conveniently ignored because China has to be bastion of privacy violation. In reality China has privacy laws comparable to the European GDPR.
AliPay and wechat are fenomal. It’s like in the western world, 1000 apps rolled into one. Paying, ordering food, ordering DiDi, trains, flights, insurance, sports, tickets all in the one app. Plus you can add mini apps within so when you go to a restaurant you can scan the QR code or just put your phone on the NFC tag, and the menu pops up so you can order and pay directly.
China is much better in regards to infrastructure like high speed trains, social security, health care, green energy but again because of the western propaganda this is ignored. Are there tradeoffs? Yes of course.
But from someone who lived and worked in the US for 2 years and now lives in China for over 7 years, I can 100% claim my life is much better here than in the US. And definitely much, much more affordable which is what the article is about.
my cousin spent 1+ there teaching english, he came back to state to try to get into a career in CS, its probably not enough for many peoples livelyhoods.
working at a chinese company would be fucking awful and the salary would match your super fun cost of living noted here in the headline. some of these people are my friends. I’ve lived in similar countries
if you are retired, it’s great. if you work remotely for a European company, it’s great. if you work for a local company it could be great or it could be a seriously awful life. if you’re doing business it could be great or it could be a kafka-esque hell
working at a chinese company would be fucking awful
I got floored when I was told they get 5 days of paid vacation (10 if you worked for 10-20 years and 15 days if you worked for 20+ years) , and no vacation for the first year in a new company, and they have like ~7 days of public holidays.
Oh, and no paid sick leave (for a flue etc - you will get it for operations and similar but they must be dona via public hospitals).
Meanwhile here in Poland we get 5 weeks + 13 public holidays, and if they happen to be during weekend you get an extra day free later, and it’s considered rather low for the EU. And unlimited paid sick leave, including for fatigue etc.
Those sound like fairly standard US vacation allowances, though there’s that diabolical US practice of putting vacation and sick leave into one pot.
I’m in the UK. 37-hour work week, flextime, almost entirely remote working, 6.5 weeks vacation, 13 or 14 bank holidays, and essentially unlimited sick leave, though the employer can ask for proof (which, in my 11 years on my job, they never have). Pension provision is also excellent, not the US standard “defined contribution” bullshit where you have no guarantee of the payout. We get a defined monthly payout for life, annually adjusted for cost of living.
BTW, I’ve visited Poland quite a few times and I’m impressed at how much the living standards have improved since my first visit in the mid-1980s. The UK: not nearly as much. 14 years of underinvestment by the Conservatives, plus Brexit, has done a lot of damage, and Labour under Starmer has been too timid about rebuilding.
Yup, we get lowballed with the paid vacation :( And the US abominable corporations are pushing more and more “freelancers”, “gig workers” etc to suck us dry and remove those benefits.
Btw - last time I was in the UK I was honestly surprised how many immigrants I can see. You are like 20% of foreign born. Very new yorker of you :)
they care more about the time you give them than they do about the quality of work that you deliver
they don’t want someone who takes risks and cuts out projects for themselves and purposes ideas. they want someone who is around all the time making it look like things are running smoothly
Meanwhile, people working 3 jobs to feed a family of 4 in the US, if not then they are working minimum wage job to qualify for medical insurance and get some tax break while living at home.
Unless you are middle class or up you are fucked.
The issue here is how much you need to rent a place. There are absolutely 0 reasons for high rent and lack of affordable housing in North America yet here we are.
Lol that is absurd. It all depends on the job and situation. That is common sense. Which is true everywhere in the world. Because of course it is.
No, China #1
Edit: fellow autists, this was sarcasm. Everyone knows the greatest nation on earth is the one with the most concentration camps, not the second most. USA! USA! USA!
Yummy, yummy boot.
I prefer moccasins
Spamoflage
$100 groceries for 4? Bullshit.
Since I’m getting downvoted by Lemmidiots, there are websites to look this up:
So for 4, $1000 USD/mo.
also because Lemmy, $1000 is ten times more money than $100.
Because children eat 2400 calories a day?
Assuming the kids eat 0 calories you’re still at 5x what the article claims.
100% bullshit. Unless he is eating straight trash. I fucking lived in mainland. This is just bullshit from the worst kind of expat who likes to bask in their smugness and explain how they got it all figured out.
Yeah, I looked at prices in Shanghai and they were more than Canada for most items.
Mmmmm hmmmm…
Kinda reminds me of that dude that moved his family to Russia to escape wokeness and then got shipped off to the frontlines in Ukraine 🤭
Or the Brits in Dubai that were on here the other day.
“To to teach English”
Which is only possible because he happened to be born into the language
And English is only in demand because of British + American dominance in the world throught the past few hundred years
Most Chinese Citizens cannot enjoy the same lifestyle as him, WHICH IS WHY they want to learn English in the first place… so that they can find more opportunities in life
Like… this is not really “China good”, this is more like “English-Speaking white dude, who was lucky enough to grow up with the language, benefiting from Anglosphere dominance throught history”
There are tons of options for other countries to go to.
I got my rent to $300 for an entire house.
Yes, my salary is way lower than it was in the US, but as a percentage of income it’s not even close.
Where did you end up at if you don’t mind me asking? What was your process?
I’d prefer not to say it because the situation gets unique enough where I might start to become identifiable, but the process was long. It took 10 years to get a permanent residency, and I won’t lie - until that point, work visas linked to employers were in many ways humiliating and exploitative. But on the other side of it was freedom, good societal benefits, and a culture with respect for community and connection. I’d say the trade was worth it.
My advice in my case, and it might be relevant to anybody else looking to do the same, is that it’s a mistake to try to find a position overseas that matches your career in the US dollar for dollar. Unless you are EXTREMELY lucky, that just isn’t going to happen. The US pays higher salaries because the costs of living are higher, and going to another country, in many ways you’re going to be under-performing compared to natives, just because you’re unaware of cultural cues and language subtleties. Basically, the best thing you can do is be ready to accept a few steps down the ladder. Most career professionals just aren’t willing to do this. I was, and it made all the difference. I’ll put it directly - I took a 75% pay cut to get out, and I’ll absolutely never reach that same income level again. But compared to back then, I’m not constantly surrounded by vile business practices, I’m not constantly compromising my integrity to deploy bad, rushed code to make money that gets taxed to bomb poor countries while I fight my insurance company to cover a tooth extraction… I wake up in a quiet town of nice people and do work that makes me feel fulfilled on my own terms. I eat good food at reasonable prices. My happiness isn’t linked to how well I can satisfy some rich jackass - my destiny is mine.
It’s not a path for everyone. It was tough and there were times where I second guessed my choices so hard it crushed me. But I’m now doing pretty well for where I live, with potential for more down the line, and I’m doing it all on my terms. To me, that’s worth everything I sacrificed.
“Tons of options, like me”
“Oh, what did you do”
“Took 10 years, not for everyone, it was tough”
Great post. Thanks a lot.
I’m not from the US, but I’ve had similar experiences in half a dozen or so countries all over the world. I couldn’t even imagine my life if I’d never moved away from where I was raised, nor do I ever wish to go back to that time or place. The world is so goddamn full of excitement and opportunities. I never tire of new experiences.
I may get responses to this post saying “must be nice to be rich,” but I was raised poor. I literally just got on a plane after giving away whatever was in my apartment. A day later I was working a job making the equivalent of 300 usd a month and having a fucking blast. I met my future life partner quite literally the next day.
I have so many good friends from my childhood who are drowning in money or stress issues, yet when I try to entice them to make a significant change, each of them finds reasons why it’s “impossible” while continuing to complain about their lives. What I’ve come to realize is actually impossible is convincing anyone to step outside their comfort zone.
Edit: a word
My story is pretty similar in starting out poor. I was raised poor, but then was the first person in my family to graduate university, all on loans in my own name (subsequently paid), and then the first to travel outside the US. From there it just snowballed.
I do wish more people made the choice, just for their own sakes. Statistically, the idea that the place you were born is the best fit for you is pretty low. But then, I also get that not everyone can make the jump. I’ve watched most people who come here spend some time and then go back home. It’s scary to leave everything behind, and not everyone is up for it.
America so bad! Let’s import the worst of them!
Why is there so much propaganda praising fascist China on here today
Yeah I’m sure that xenophobic nation is a place where average Walmart white Americans can move for cheap rent /s
Yeah I’m sure that xenophobic nation is a place where average Walmart white Americans can move for cheap rent
You don’t need to describe America, we’re talking about China.
Both shithole countries
+2 FICO © Credit Score, maybe in 15 years they can buy a car!
That’s not what fascism is at all. But if you are a product of the American educational system, it all makes sense. Maybe buy a mirror.
There was a recent question about what socialism and communism are in a popular community, and that got people’s engagement up as they explained how they would work in theory and how the attempts so far were fucked up by capitalists.
Their enthusiasm will wane.
Their enthusiasm will wane.
It’s literally only gotten more popular because of the climate Holocaust and fascism, but sure.
Why is there so much propaganda praising fascist China on here today.
because China is the duke!
China…A-number one!
Surely this won’t come back to bite him or his family…
