Debian is where greybeards go to retire things just work once you configured them and you don’t need the helping hand of the AUR as you can just build your own packages with aptbuild.
Hey! My beard isn’t that… oh, fuck, I guess it is. Where does the time go?
I hear you brother 1998 was just yesterday right?
I sure am excited for gaming this year. I saw some adverts in a magazine for Half-Life, Ocarina of Time, and Resident Evil 2 and I can’t decide.
Shit. I’ve been on Debian for decades now. Maybe I’m just an old soul… Or I’m just lazy. I don’t even configure my DE anymore. The OS install of today will be wiped in no time, so it’s not worth being too attached.
Same started on OG Suse from a boxed copy I bought in a store that came with a thick manual but then a year later found Debian and have there ever since.
Same, on the XFCE/LXQt/MATE desktops
I’m not a greybeard (yet) but
xbps-srcwould like to have a word.Also, Debian is bad for cognitive abilities since if you use it long enough you forget how to configure things. /j
Every time I have to upgrade to a new release I have to go read the instructions on how to do it…
I would appreciate a big button like in fedora “push here to upgrade to Debian sailwind”
Debian is for my homelab, where things randomly breaking would ruin the day of multiple family members. Arch is for my personal machines, where things randomly breaking is an excuse to learn more about my hobby
Ubuntu -> Mint.
I don’t know why I’d change, Mint just works. That’s all I ever wanted.
All I ever wanted. All I ever needed. Heeeere , in my arms.
Words are very unnecessary
I always come back to Mint. Far from just a “beginner distro”, it’s a practical and solid choice for anyone devoted to something other than tweaking, perfecting, and personalizing an OS. Not that there’s anything wrong with that if it’s your passion and you have the time. Personally, I wouldn’t mind making my perfect Arch or NixOS setup, but my free time is limited and there is always something I’m interested in working on more.
Same, really. I keep trying other distros, and have Kubuntu on my laptop right now, but it’s still just a tiny bit too buggy compared to Mint.
I use linux by the way.
I think that most Arch users that want to move to something stable are considering NixOS or GNU Guix rather than Debian.
Well, maybe i’m not your average Arch user then… Don’t see the appeal in Nix, honestly, and i’m too lazy to learn. What is GNU Guix? Never heard of it.
I’m kinda tinkering with Debian Sid atm.
Guix (pronounced “geeks”) is like Nix (declarative, functional, atomic) but more Emacs (niche, lispy, Free)
It’s strange to see someone move from Ubuntu to Arch, like it, and have aspirations of Debian. Ubuntu to Debian is fairly straightforward, didn’t you have to do a bunch of shit to get on and learn arch?
Do you wanna hear the whole backstory?
I’m in Ur thread, reading Ur posts.
Yes I want free entertainment.
Well, you asked for it.
I started my Journey on Mint. The Install broke, but I wasn’t gonna give up that easily. So I used AI to troubleshoot it (not my best times, but I was desperate). I customized mint, I cherished it and loved my escape from the grasps of Microsoft.
Eventually, I noticed you couldn’t do rounded corners on Cinnamon (I didn’t understand DEs at the time, thinking you could only use the DE that came with the Distro).
It pissed me off so much that I went and tried something with Plasma. I went with OpenSUSE, in part cuz I liked the Chameleon, in part because I did like the concept. Bluetooth and wifi didn’t work ootb and for me as a beginner that sealed the deal, I wasn’t able to fix it.
Next, I went to Kubuntu, thinking it’ll be stable and have Plasma. And it was. It was all i’d ever hoped for. Stable, many features, super customizable. I even messed around with config files etc (mind you, this was like 3 weeks into my journey). I loved it. Even disabled snaps eventually.
But eventually I got bored. I started trying out other Distros, not hopping but just trying out their live installs. I no longer liked the corporate backend of Canonical. I wanted something new.
I also watched a lot of Linux content at the time, and I was confused and annoyed that I wasn’t getting the newest updates to stuff. That’s when I really started learning about DEs, Rolling releases etc.
I didn’t even really think of Debian as an option at the time, I kept hearing it was old and outdated, which I didn’t want.
That’s when I fell down the Arch rabbit hole. Cool logo, cool concept, hacker mode.
I wanted that, So, I tried Cachy and Endeavor. No. It wasn’t enough. I wanted that Arch logo natively in fastfetch. I wanted to say “I use arch btw”. First, I messed around in VMs. from 3pm to 3am, all I did was try and install arch in VMs. Manually, of course. I decided it was the only way to get the experience needed.
I was able to do it eventually. The Step to bare metal was… not as smooth as expected. what the hell is NVMEp02?? And stuff like that. It look a long time until I was done. And it was buggy, I had messed up. Shit didn’t work. I decided, well, it works except for weird stuff, strange issues I didn’t care to troubleshoot. So I used Archinstall, and no I don’t feel guilty, I can still do it manually if I wanted to I was just lazy.
Aaaand here we are. Arch is amazing and fantastic. But Debian Testing is almost as fast in terms of releases and I like the extra stability. Using Cosmic on Arch, actually. I love the tiling functionality. We shall see what the future brings
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Be careful with Debian Testing, it is prioritized last for security patch frequency of the 3 Debian versions. It is possible to daily drive but not really meant for that, and even Arch has more safeguards.
idk, is it really that bad? I’ve heard of many people using debian sid for daily
Ah ok, you wanted something new and to experiment and wanted the most up to date thing without going into “side branches”.
I also really understand wanting to use a mainline Linux, I’m prouder of using main vanilla ass Debian since it feels more official and respected to present myself professionally saying “yes, I use Linux, my distro is Debian” instead of “I use mint because I need more handholding” or “I use Nobara/Pika because I am a 420 blaze it gamer”.
I did similar stuff to you, if you’re interested you can check out my journey. However, during this distro hop I did come more to terms with understanding distros are basically DE + package manager + bundled software, with a few differences and outliers.
Which led me to having the fun situation where I hated MATE, uninstalling it from my Ubuntu mate install, putting on KDE, distro hopping and when I went for Debian net install, repeating the KDE install after being shocked that a bare bones Debian install has no DE.
I did it again for a trashtop that I have, removing LMDE’s default DE and installing XFCE because I didn’t like… Cinnamon?
I mean I see the appeal of both. I used arch for a bit then went back to Ubuntu-based actually. Arch is cool and all, but I had some major functionality break a few times. I got tired of tinkering with it. Ubuntu “just works” most of the time. Interested to see what op writes about it too…
Have you thought about trying Mint, specifically LMDE?
Nah, not really. Pop_OS has been my favorite so far. Been on it about 5 years now.
Either that or Void
Gentoo is how you upgrade from here
Im a long standing debian user and i just recently installed arch in a separated disk mainly for gaming. I like arch, but debian is just beautiful.
Favorite: Debian Stable (For my uses, it was the least trouble)
First: Slackware (1995, installed from floppy disks, also a short stretch in 2009)
Current: Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) (Using because I need to support users on stock Mint)
Distro you liked the least: Novell SuSE (Used in a corporate setting)
Distro you want to use in the future: Unknown
Distro you used for the longest time: Debian Stable (15 years)
Distro everyone likes but I don’t: Ubuntu
Honorable mention: DietPi (RaspberryPi and SBC focused OS)
Over time, I’ve used quite a lot of different distros: Red Hat, Red Hat Enterprise, Scientific, CENTOS, Fedora, Mandrake, Damn Small, Puppy, CrashBang, Raspbian, Bazzite, to name just the ones I can remember off the top of my head now.
Are LMDE and stock Mint close enough in versions and features that you can always efficiently support stock Mint users?
Also, is the base Mint software updated regularly, or does it depend on the Debian 2-year cycle?
Yes as far as I’ve found so far, the features track quite well, and I’m really aiming to get proficient with the standard interface. I’ve found a few minor differences, but I tried stock Mint (which is Ubuntu 20.04 based) for a while, and I didn’t want to go backwards from Trixie (the current Stable Debian version) so I opted for LMDE which is based on Trixie. I use Debian Stable because of the “2-year cycle” (that’s why it’s called stable); Because stock Mint tracks the latest LTS release of Ubuntu, it’s actually a fair bit more out of date than Debian at this stage, and the next Mint version, based on the new LTE Ubuntu, isn’t slated to come out until December.
So far it’s not been too bad for a hybrid system - I have had a couple of issues, but this is most likely attributable to being a hybrid. I’ve found that I like Cinnamon, which stock Debian does not (as far as I know) support yet - I have used MATE for about 15 years because I don’t get on with Gnome 3 or KDE. You get all the nice things about Mint that I found impressive when I tested it - the printer and scanner support is very good, and the configuration utilities are quite reminiscent of Windows ones (good for new users, but I personally don’t care). Still not sure if I’m going to stick with it long-term, but happy with it for now - I largely stopped distro-hopping when I switched to MATE.
Thanks for sharing!
As per Cinnamon on Debian - I certainly remember installing Cinnamon version of Debian 12 (“Bookworm”), so it does exist, unless it was removed in Trixie. Check the installer options :)
I really think Ubuntu is the most common first distro people try. A common reoccurrence here is the inability to see what an average person, in terms of tech literacy, knows and are willing to put time and effort into. Ubuntu has been the face of Linux for a long time (obviously not based on people who know and use linux). I wish Mint took that place as it’s so much better.
I was gonna say that “and put effort into” is important.
I admin various Linux Servers, been through most distros at work and at home. I’m an experienced Linux admin/user. I’m settled on Mint at home for the foreseeable future.
After a long day/week/career doing IT, the last thing I want is for my primary PC to be a project-home. Mint Cinnamon ended up being the home I fell in love with - honestly was expecting it to be another kitchy distro that I would maybe reccommend for noobs (I mean it is also that). I couldn’t be happier - LMDE is the only thing that makes me wonder about greener grass.
I haven’t gotten to 95% perfect since Ubuntu pre-unity, and that one very long Arch build I did that one time. Even Debian, the home I grew up in, wasn’t the home I wanted to live in forever.
No shade on any other Distros/DEs out there. Everyone has different homes and it’s their home and I love that people have them and that they’re all different, and I want many options to keep existing. Past me would not understand present me’s choices.
Similar situation, experienced professional user but I’m running kubuntu at home. I just posted to another user about not wanting a project pc. I want to use my computer, not fix it or tweak it. It’s not other distributions are bad, it’s that this one is fine for me right now and it’s not windows.
Ubuntu seems universally hated. Why?
Desktop design decisions. A lot of folks hated Unity. I know I did - they turned something familiar into something Apple like and I couldn’t stand it. I’m genuinely not a fan of the unified menus and such. It didn’t help that users were basically forced out of Gnome 2 into it when Unity became the default.
Within Unity they Integrated Amazon results into the Desktop Search. That was likened to spyware since your queries were being shared with Amazon, much like MS integrating web results into their own search. Ubuntu fucked up harder because, absent any filtering, their search occasionally produced adult products in the results - ie sex toys and such. Imagine telling your kid Fluffy needs a new knotted rope chew toy. They start searching “dog knot toy” just to have the results filled with BadDragon knockoffs.
They’ve leaned heavier into enterprise over the years and that has alienated a lot of the Desktop audience which helped bring attention to OS in the first place. They went from “Linux for Human Beings,” making desktop computing more accessible throughout the world, to becoming essentially the Microsoft of the Linux world.
Their snap backend is proprietary. You can’t just host your own snap repository. Even if you host your own local snap cache, it ultimately must point to and retrieve from their repository to populate that cache.
I’m sure there’s other stuff worth pointing out that I’ve forgotten.
Too much corporate control and enshittification. For example, when you use apt-get to get native packages, it can instead download a snap package (which works differently, is controlled by them and might not be preferred for many other reasons), even though you clearly meant not to.
Canonical (Ubuntu’s developer) is trying to push people deeper into the ecosystem they build and control.
Then, they roll out a paid Ubuntu version, Ubuntu Pro, separating paying and non-paying customers and turning Ubuntu into a subscription-based SaaS.
It was broken in many subtle ways even before snaps. Version updates were always a bit of a gamble and the whole thing was never as solid as properly managed distributions like the industrial ones such as SuSE or RH (or the properly managed ones that followed).
I don’t hate it, it’s just so far the worst one i’ve used. It’s not necessarily bad, I have friends who use it.
Because apt is fundamentally broken and it shows most readily on a desktop-oriented distro like Ubuntu.
In order to benefit from packages not included by the distro you need to use 3rd party apt repos, but there’s no rule against those repos using package names used by another repo, including the distro’s repos. It could’ve also been fixed by identifying packages by [repo name + package name] instead of just [package name]… but it hasn’t.
The result is that when Ubuntu packages get replaced by 3rd party packages by the same name it can mess up the dependency graph if the 3rd party repo isn’t super careful about it.
It’s not a huge issue immediately after installing something but as time passes and more updates pile on top of each other (from both Ubuntu and the 3rd parties) it can get completely ruined and eventually the update solver can’t find an upgrade path anymore and you can’t use Ubuntu’s newer releases.
At that point you have two options. One is to use an advanced solver like the one in
aptitude, for example, but in order to fix the mess it will recommend to uninstall and reinstall a huge number of packages, including very core, essential packages, which is very risky and you lose the 3rd party stuff anyway. At which point you might as well use option two, which is to reinstall a newer Ubuntu release from scratch.Eventually after you go through this a few times it starts to get really annoying and you either get stuck on an old release out of dread, or you start looking for a distro that can be updated in-place indefinitely.
Hate is perhaps too strong of a word, but personally, I just don’t care for their default desktop environment. If I had to, I could still use it but as I have lots of choices I’m going with something else.
On the other hand, I find Ubuntu to be a fine server OS, especially if you want something in the Debian family but want something a bit more up to date than what’s currently in Debian stable but still widely supported.
Favorite distro: NixOS First distro used: Ubuntu Distro you want to use in the future: SixOS, Asahi Honorable mention: Fedora Server Distro you liked the least: Ubuntu Distro you currently use: Arch, NixOS The distro you used for the longest time: Arch
Nice meme! Its interesting that you’ve tried more than one distro. Personally, I prefer to pick the best one right away and stick with that. I think one of Zote’s precepts mentions this. I use mint btw.
/jerk
arch btw
I love Ubuntu currently but I’m planning on switching. I just love the feel of it.
I feel it. As a distro itself I’m not a huge fan of how it does things, but I really do like their theming, colors, font, aesthetic, logo, all that.
Thankfully easy enough to make any distro look like anything, with a little effort. :)
Favorite is OpenSuse Tumbleweed. It’s stable mostly, and quite fixable when it isn’t. Just a great overall balance.
My first was actually DSL: “Damn Small Linux”, contained entirely on a CD to remove a TERRIBLY resistant malware from my Windows XP machine. (It was awesome for that! Had no idea what I was doing lol.)
Tried Ubuntu, then Ubuntu Studio, but they didn’t like my Wi-Fi devices back in those days, so I didn’t get to do much with them!
Used Mint seriously on my aging laptop and loved it. It’s such an excellent on-ramp and you can hang out with it as long as you like.
Later tried Manjaro for a while but…it started having some controversial project decisions and just didn’t feel like home.
Using EndeavourOS on my gaming laptop and it works great! Considering migrating though: Arch is an excellent teacher, but I’ve had to spend unexpected weekends fixing weird hitches after updates.
Honorable Mention: Puppy Linux! I used to be able to boot it to any laptop from my Android phone, and that was a really neat trick for public computers and stuff.
Hey I resemble that journey. Very few people metion DSL and Puppy. Those lived on a multiboot flash drive I carry around “JIC” (these days I just bring Mint and Tails).
I just commented elsewhere how Mint became home - that “long as you like” is still going (jeez 8y at this point lol).
Cool! Yeah, they don’t seem to be referenced as much anymore, but they were seriously impressive and had their use cases. :D
that “long as you like” is still going (jeez 8y at this point lol).
Yeah, Mint is often referred to by folks as a “beginner distro” implying you’ll somehow inevitably skill up and distro hop, and sure, plenty do, but it really doesn’t have to be that way!
(Heck, Eliot the super hacker in Mr. Robot used it as his home distro! Lol 😉)
I mean, it’s stable, you can still get newer stuff and gaming via FlatPak, and it’s just overall friendlier. The community is super helpful and nice too!
I personally jumped to OpenSUSE Tumbleweed because I like having new features sooner. (I blame Blender haha!), and honestly, I didn’t expect to fall in love with KDE as much as I did. I really like KDE. :p
I’d always encourage people to try other distros just to see if they do something that fits them better or something, but yeah, you shouldn’t feel any pressure to “graduate” from Mint. It’s lovely. :D
Favorite is OpenSuse Tumbleweed. It’s stable mostly, and quite fixable when it isn’t. Just a great overall balance.
I am actually thinking that a stable-stable distro like Debian or OpenSuse Leap as a base system, and on top either GNU Guix or a VM with Tumbleweed or Suse Slowroll is a great option. Very stable for productivity, and at the same time very current for programming and exploring new stuff.
I currently use Debian stable, and both Gnu Guix and an Arch VM on top.
I’m always curious about what you all do with your OS 😅 I mean sure why not but for me it was (after 6 months before going for it) like a weekend check out and then my pc became an 'ol Linux box (boxes, laptops etc followed) and it just chugs on?
Yes! What is the appeal? Why switch all the time? I just install the OS, tweak everything to work, then let it be. I clearly am not enough of a nerd. My whole Linux adventure started with distros, that were said to be easy for beginners… and I did not move past that, because stuff works?
To be fair, some of these responses are clearly going back 20+ years and only have 8 total “hops”. In that time a typical windows user would have gone through 7-10 different versions of windows depending on how lucky they got with stuff like ME and 8…
That seems like a very plausible explanation! I tried mint 16 and didn’t do the jump because it was not up to it just yet. Being a linux nerd 10-20 years ago and the differences were probably huge between distros, and they changed all the time too.
Smart thinking!
I’ve hopped around a lot when I first got into Linux (mostly to check out different desktops, see what the fuss is about rolling releases, and trying to get a little more performance). Haven’t done any of that for about 5 years, I’m actually planning on moving from Ubuntu to Debian because of Canonical’s corporate bullshit, but there’s just too much annoying work to do to recreate my setup on a new install.
Favorite: MX Linux
First Distro Used: Ubuntu 6.06
Distro You Want to Use in the Future: CachyOS
Honorable Mention: Pardus
Distro You Liked the Least: Mandriva
Distro You Currently Use: Bazzite
The Distro You Used for the Longest Time: Opensuse
