Comment section makes me doubt the very obvious-seeming criticism here
I’d give up the bacon and the server farms for affordable consumer grade hardware and tobacco.
Just let the pig live on a nice farm omg.
Ye nah, absolutely fuck the meet industry.
fuck the meet industry
It all started going downhill with Zoom.
It’s amazing how hard Microsoft dropped the ball on that one.
I am still baffled by Microsofts incompetence. Skyping was literally used synonymously for video conferencing in general,
And the absolutely crazy thing is that they already have contracts with just about every university and major company.
All they had to do was read the room and reach out!
But… Mah hahmbergz!
Caplyta is an anti-psychotic.
Do you really want to take that from me?!?
https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?color=19&sort=rel&maxrows=89
A blue and white capsule could be a lot of things, I’m not sure the original image is actually supposed to be any individual drug at all
Lol, no doubt you’re right. It just made me lol when I saw the image and immediately thought, “wtf did caplyta ever do?”
I hope when I die my corpse is cut up, fried in my own body fat, and fed to pigs.
Fuck factory farms, things dont have to be this way. For this and many other wrongs in our world.
You need at least 16 pigs to do the job. So
be weary offind any man who keeps a pig farm.Same, but I wanna be secretly fed to my family like a reverse version of South Park’s Cartman and Scott Tenorman.
Context: My family are cunts.
Pretty much my stance on it. Things don’t have to be this way. They don’t have to stop existing in order to not be this way either. We can eat pork and not be cruel to the pigs we eat.
What the fuck. We can do without factory farming!
As much as I find chickens, and all avians in general, cute and I find it sickening the way they are treated… I do love eggs, they’re tasty, versatile, easy to cook, and unbelievably healthy.
I think the differential we have to identify is one thing, and that is scale.
I am not a vegan, I do not believe it is wrong to consume animals or animal-sourced products, however I do support animal welfare and believe that if we are to raise livestock for consumption they should be treated as the sentient, thinking, feeling creatures that they are and cared for accordingly.
Imagine instead of human and animal rights we just had “sentient rights”, for example.
Being able to test for sentience is a topic in and of itself, and out of scope for my argument.
I think there is no harm done in, a hypothetical world where people had the space to do such a thing, raising our own livestock, limited to individual homesteads or the immediate settlement (a local town market, for example).
The line where it becomes unethical is quite obvious really, are the animals treated as living things, or machines to simply fuel and feed to grow them for slaughter and harvest? Yes, in my example of fair treatment the goal may be to raise them for eventual slaughter, but its their lifelong treatment where this applies, not the overall objective.
The better treatment balloons costs by requiring more land and more care, which significantly inflates the cost of the final products. This could be an effective measure for reducing meat consumption by people buying less to save money, many people would be against those increases.
Its just like mass produced clothing. Since they dont see the abuse and destruction, they are satisfied with the lower prices at the store.
Again, scale.
How much of the meat produced is actually eaten? What’s the chance for each garment produced to actually be worn more than once?
The current system can downsize significantly without needing to raise prices, as we’re already in a significant surplus.
The point at which products are no longer guaranteed due to demand is when the prices have to go up.
That surplus is factored in to the companies making money and providing consistant demand. Prices will increase if the treatment gets better because the capitalists and oligarchs will not willingly take a profits cut. The surplus waste in the current system could be utilized better, for example fast freezing and being provided to food banks or soup kitchens.
No matter how you cut it, if labor and land demand increases, the price will increase.
Obviously if treatment got better, the capitalists and oligarchs would no longer be a problem.
Guillotines
Doubling the cost to raise chicken wouldn’t double the shelf price. Most of the cost of food comes from the distribution network. Chicken raised this way costs double because that’s what some consumers will pay over cheaper chicken.
But surely in the present state of affairs where that treatment is not the norm, veganism is the only ethical approach, no?
Actually, counter-intuitively, strict veganism would objectively increase animal suffering if authentic alternatives exist. Which they do. But they are admittedly not easy to find. Ethical farms do exist, and typically self-regulate and self-support by selling the products the animals produce. Wool clothes, free-range eggs, end-of-life meat, excess milk & honey, etc. If your only 2 options are torture products, or nothing, then yes I 100% agree that veganism would be the correct choice. Between these 3 options though, giving your money to an ethical farmer objectively increases the livelihood of the animals under its care, more so than complete avoidance.
The way I see it, the tiny fraction of meat that’s produced ethically should go to the tiny fraction of people with dietary restrictions that require meat.
The vast majority of people are not going out to investigate small farms to see if their practices are ethical. They are buying meat from a grocery store, and if they consider it at all, they might pick one with a label slapped on like “organic,” completely meaningless thanks to lobbying.
Practically speaking, it is almost always a choice between torture products and nothing.
That’s an argument for vegetarianism, not veganism. What about wool, honey, milk, eggs. And different countries have different mechanisms. Using the USA as a basis, is admittedly a bad example.
Here in Germany, there are very strict regulations on how living conditions can be claimed, ranging from 1(literal torture) to 5(outdoor access, pasture raised etc.) I’m not saying it’s a perfect system, but I can’t agree that it’s impossible and pointless to try when there are places actively trying and actively supporting l.
What about wool, honey, milk, eggs.
Again, it’s a matter of whether you’re looking at things in the abstract, or in terms of how things actually work.
Take eggs for example. Eggs aren’t just a byproduct of having chickens around, there are specific breeds that are dedicated to egg-laying. Because only a small number of males are needed for reproduction, most male chicks are put on a conveyor and ground to death. While I can’t claim to be an expert in German laws, I did find that German courts have allowed this practice.
It’s a similar story with milk. Because dairy cows are a different breed, male calves are typically slaughtered at birth. Dairy cows are kept in a constant state of pregnancy, suffer the stress of being separated from their young, and are killed as soon as the milk slows down, typically a quarter of their natural lifespans. Dairy is also similarly bad for the environment as beef, and there are widely available plant-based substitutes like oat milk that taste just as good, if not better.
No matter what animal product we’re talking about, maximization of profits is almost always going to involve cruelty, environmental harm, and selective breeding to the point that any expectations about natural by-products aren’t true. Even with regulations (which can be difficult to enact effectively), there are tradeoffs: limiting cruelty can increase environmental impact (as well as the price). If animal products were appropriately priced based on offsetting the harm they cause, they would be unable to compete against plant-based alternatives.
And once again, this is an argument against factory farming and inhumane practices, not farming and domestication in general.
Yes, I agree that factory farming is horrific. Yes, I agree that people should eat less meat. Yes, I agree people need to be more aware of where their products come from.
However, just because you neighbor beats his dog doesn’t mean everyone does.
And I repeat the same question I ask every time. Are you universally against ALL forms of animal domestication and husbandry? Eg. A small hobby farm that keeps a few chickens for eggs, and a few goats for milk.
And once again, this is an argument against factory farming and inhumane practices, not farming and domestication in general.
Yes, because that’s what 99% of the decisions of 99% of people involve. Just because it’s theoretically possible to imagine a situation where these things are done ethically doesn’t mean that’s actually an option that is practically available.
I am not particularly interested in criticizing small farms with relatively ethical practices. My position, from my original comment, is, “But surely in the present state of affairs where that treatment is not the norm, veganism is the only ethical approach, no?”
Is there a hypothetical situation where it’s ethical to kill an innocent person?Suppose some space aliens say they’ll destroy the world with a giant laser if you don’t. That hypothetical does not change the fact that not killing innocent people is still a good general rule in the vast majority of situations you’ll actually encounter in life. To throw out all reservations against murder just because of that hypothetical would be making a rule from the exception.
Likewise, I’m sure you can imagine a hypothetical situation where it’s ethical to consume animal products, but unless that situation is an actual, real thing in your life, that you’ve looked into to verify is the case (which the example of eggs in Germany makes me skeptical of), then what you’re doing is throwing out a generally good rule based on an unrealistic hypothetical, just because following the rule would be inconvenient.
Not sure where our definitions of “healthy” foods differ, but I literally wouldn’t call eggs “healthy” whatsoever. There is no single animal product that can even be considered “nutrient dense” much less healthy. Even in world war II, the world had enough saturated fats and excessive animal products that most of the soldiers even in their thirties had already started developing intravascular plaques, and brother, we’re a hell of a long way from that these days…
Just wanted to jump in and correct you because I don’t know where this eggs are. Healthy thing came from. They are certainly not. They are like eating butter essentially with some protein on top
Well unfortunately you haven’t got what you wanted, you clearly have a very simple view on nutrition, and a concerning lack of intelligence.
What is an egg? It is a vessel to grow a living organism in a self-contained environment, providing all the resources needed to do so.
Resources such as:
- Vitamins
- Amino-acids
- Antioxidants
- Healthy, unsaturated fats
If an egg was so bad for your health, I ask you quite simply, how the hell do they support a chick during a very intense time of rapid growth?
That’s like saying being in a womb is unhealthy for a developing foetus.
Please, next time, perhaps try updating your knowledge to something a bit more modern than WW2 before “jumping in and correcting” anyone again. With the constant stream of AI slop onto the internet, the last thing we need is human slop too.
If an egg was so bad for your health, I ask you quite simply, how the hell do they support a chick during a very intense time of rapid growth?
That’s like saying being in a womb is unhealthy for a developing foetus.
Is this sophistry? Do you know this is a pants-on-head ridiculous thing to say? Not sure what would be worse, frankly. I could list a thousand things that are essential to life and yet kill you if you eat it.
Eggs are well known to be harmful to human health. Here is a short fully cited essay on the subject that introduces 267 fully cited videos on the same subject. https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/eggs/
Salmonella
You cook them, solved.
High choleserol
You don’t base your diet on 100% eggs, limiting your diet to any one food will be damaging regardless.
Prostate cancer
Sure, higher risk, from what baseline? Varies massively per-person, and people’s risk-tolerance is subjective… Personally I don’t really care.
Diabetes
Again, significantly higher chance, from what baseline? 0.02 is 100% higher than 0.01, misleading.
Fuck me you’re still going on about this? Man get a life with some real problems… Didn’t know people could get so pressed about fucking eggs.
a concerning lack of intelligence.
This reads like you are so insecure you have to personally attack people to cope with your own emotions.
I have a health degree, but ok mr. Expert. Have fun with ur heart disease. I’d just appreciate if you didn’t confidently lead others down ignorant health courses like “eggs are healthy” lol
Proof that degrees are meaningless and idiots come in all levels of educational achievement
“I disagree with your educated assessment… Better call you names to prove I’m right…” -this guy
Clearly wasn’t a particularly good university, and anyway, this is nutrition, not health.
I could guess that the 31 replies I see referenced but cannot view are from a fairly insane vegan I recently blocked for being insane and rude.
No one cares about your block list as much as you will. No need to share your mundane account activity with us.
But this response here is vital info that I need to know. I’m guessing the real issue here is “insane rude vegan” struck a nerve with you personally.
Yes, slaves are super convenient. No one ever said that slaves aren’t nice to have, dude. YOUR experience is not the fucking point.
There is no way to create a creature for the express purpose of exploitation that is okay. There is no way to create a creature with the intention of forcing it into a state of total dependence that is not actually evil.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do
Slavers do that because they think other Animals are worth nothing and want to say Human Slaves are also worth nothing.
Here quite the opposite is done. All Animals have a Worth. Every living being has the same worth. Modern Science says that Humans are also Animals.
If you still think its something only a Slaver would say then in your head other animals probably have no worth at all. So you think someone else wants to degrade humans with that comparison. Even tho its not degrading at all. You just think less of other animals, and you probably deny the science that Humans are Animals. Which is the reason why @Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org says you sound like a “human supremacist”
Every living being has the same worth.
if this were true then harvesting grain or chopping down a tree or using hand sanitizer would be murder.
All Animals have a Worth
value is subjective. this is not an objective fact.
But that we can’t objectively say what kind of worth something has is pretty much the point.
How can you say that only humans have worth but other animals do not? What gives you the right to say that you’re better than a pig, a cat, or any other animal? Some humans even do the same with their own kind and say that women have less worth or that someone with another skin color has less worth. I hope you agree with me that a white person has no right to decide if someone else has more or less worth than them. So why does a human have this right over other animals? What gave humans this right?
This is not about personal worth in something like a friendship. Obviously your best friend is more worth to you then a stranger. Obviously your own cat is more worth to you then a stranger cat. But in general worth, you would probably also be angry if millions of stranger humans would be slaughtered, right? You are probably against Genocide, right? Even tho you don’t know these humans.
Just trying to find a baseline. If you’re not even against these things when talking about Humans, then you probably have other problems.
But in general worth, you would probably also be angry if millions of stranger humans would be slaughtered, right? You are probably against Genocide, right? Even tho you don’t know these humans.
none of this has to do with “worth”. i can be opposed to genocide and mass slaughter without trying to quantify the value of people.
Stop Spamming me and respond in one single Comment man. Is this your first time on a social media platform. How old are you. Maybe you’re way to young to even argue to.
Some humans even do the same with their own kind and say that women have less worth or that someone with another skin color has less worth. I hope you agree with me that a white person has no right to decide if someone else has more or less worth than them. So why does a human have this right over other animals? What gave humans this right?
i don’t believe in rights, at all. they’re a european fiction.
What gives you the right to say that you’re better than a pig, a cat, or any other animal?
i didn’t
How can you say that only humans have worth but other animals do not?
i didn’t
Well I concluded that because you didn’t deny that in the previous comment. I tried to make clear why you were called a “human supremacist”. I tried to understand why you think that comparing slaves to animals is only something slave owners do.
First, this is denying of Science. Humans are in fact also Animals. So I thought, if you think only Slave owners say that, you probably deny that and think your self that animals are much less worth then humans, because you see it a comparison as degrading. This way it would make sense why you think only slave owners would say that. And you didn’t deny it, so went with it in the next comment.
If you actually do not think that you are more worthy then other animals, then you need to explain your first comment. From what viewpoint are you looking that you thought this comparison is something only slavers are doing. Maybe we just have a misunderstanding.
Talking like that is what human supremacists do.
it’s not about supremacy. it’s about treating different things differently.
Like white people and black people?
no. no one is advocating that pigs be allowed to vote, get healthcare, or education. they’re obviously different, and treating them differently is necessary for right behavior
killing them is “right behavior”?
Cool, so what is the difference that makes it ok to exploit and kill pigs for taste pleasure, that if applied to a human would also make it okay to exploit and kill them for taste pleasure?
You realize putting googly eyes on a toaster doesn’t give it feelings, right?
Assigning human values and desires to non-humans is not a coherent philosophy or ethical position.
Animals “Exploit” each other throughout the animal kingdom. Ants Literally farm aphids by protecting and herding them in exchange for what they produce. How is this wildly different from keeping a cow or a goat for milk?
Is the cow version evil because we’re humans, but the ant version okay because they aren’t?
Because that’s just making rules based on your desired outcome, not reason.
I disagree. They are very likely the worst of the industries in seeing here. Not even in just one way either.
long-time vegan here, this argument is as old as time.
is it ethical to kill? no.
do humans need meat to survive? no.
is animal agriculture equivalent to slavery? yes.
if you eat meat, deep down inside you know you’re supporting: murder, rape, entrapment, torture, and slavery. that includes eggs and milk.
bonus fun fact: pigs are smarter than dogs
The argument is as old as time and yet yorie absolutely wrong about all of it.
is it ethical to kill?
Under many circumstances, yes it is.
do humans need meat to survive
Not all do, but approximately 1/3 humans have any one of half a dozen different conditions that make them unable to thrive on a vegan diet, even with the expensive supplements that price many working people out of veganism.
Is animal agriculture equivalent to slavery?
No, and you saying so is an insult to every enslaved human on Earth.
if you eat meat, deep down inside you know you’re supporting: murder, rape, entrapment, torture, and slavery. that includes eggs and milk.
Works cited: crackPipe.png
And your salad has much more exploited human labor in it than my steak has exploited animal labor. Maybe work on ending the exploitation of your own species before trying to equate your fad diet with ethics?
deleted by creator
wrong on every account. (well, maybe not about pigs intelligence)
Whether you’re for or against factory farms, this is funny. Dark, but funny.
There are people who are really like this, which makes it a lot less funny. Same reason you can’t satirize the American Right anymore.
Like, the whole world is burning, and we really can’t get people to stop even the easiest things. Yeah the solutions should be systemic, but everyone’s against those solutions too.
It’s like a dead baby joke, but way more dead babies and the setup is the punchline.
I feel like I’ve been standing my entire life and I just sat down
Big sigh, no lie.
What’s this from?
I think it’s called Orville?
Thanks!
You’d be correct.
Don’t give industrialized ag a pass. i get why you did, but you can get bacon without Oscar mayer.
Yeah vegan bacon is great :)
I’ve had terrible experiences with vegan Bacon so far, which brand do you like?
I usually just get the store brand ones but there’s plenty of brands to try. I’m not trying to guess where you’re from to know which brands are available to you, just try them out and see which you like :)
You don’t have to guess where I’m from to tell me which ones you like.
i was just making sure you were pretending to like vegan bacon anyway.
Here’s the store brand ones in a pancake as proof
What the fuck
