First don’t muddy the waters with things like “far from ideal;” we know what she was: a genocidal piece of shit. To some people there’s a maximum number of pictures of dismembered children after which these things don’t matter anymore.
On the other hand, from an electoral strategy standpoint it’s not like weathering the Trump storm is going to mean victory for democracy; MAGA is ultimately a product of current living conditions, and Trump is nothing more than the demagogue they coalesced around. They’re only going to get worse until either democracy collapses or someone (probably a leftist) changes things for the better. Time is on their side, not yours. Vote blue no matter who is only an optimal strategy if you refuse to think about anything beyond the next four years. These people made the price of their vote abundantly clear as part of an organized large movement; they did everything right and the Democrats refused to listen.
Gaza is the most asinine issue to be a single-issue voter over; Trump was guaranteed to be more pro-Israel than Harris, so enabling his victory guaranteed further suffering in Gaza.
Rejecting Harris for not being progressive enough on the issue not only emboldened Netanyahu to expand the conflict, but also enabled the enactment of Project 2025, resulting in further deaths internationally, the denial of equal rights to transgender Americans, and the expansion of ICE to commit further atrocities, among many other expressions of fascism in the U.S…
The bottom line is single issue Gaza voters cared more about their moral comfort than doing what was in their power to help minimize the pain and suffering of Palestinians.
As you said, this wasn’t a confusing election, it was very clear Trump would be more pro-Israel and doesn’t give a flying fuck about Palestinians. He was clearly the worst choice for Gaza. Therefore, anyone helping him win by not voting or voting for a candidate with absolutely zero path to victory, chose their own comfort over the lives of Palestinians.
These are people whose perceived morality prevented them from connecting the dots to realize that whether it made them upset or not, Kamala or Trump was winning, and they could have done something to help Palestinians, but chose not to.
And, as you said, in the process of this failure to acknowledge reality, they also helped to SIGNIFICANTLY damage our own nation.
It’s clear you didn’t read a single damn word I wrote and just wanted to rant. Unless you respond to literally anything I said, this conversation is over.
I read it, I just disagreed with it. A continuation of the status quo under Harris would have been better than a descent into fascism under Trump and Netanyahu feeling emboldened with an ideological ally in the White House. Given that AOC is polling worse than other potential Democratic frontrunners against Vance and Rubio, letting Trump enact Project 2025 is likely to push other issues to the forefront in 2028, rather than hold Israel accountable for its genocide in Gaza—waiting four years is unlikely to have any positive impact on that issue.
Progressivism under a candidate like AOC would be the ideal, including a platform that cuts off arm sales to Israel and supports the conviction of Netanyahu for war crimes under the auspices of the ICC, but progress on every other issue at stake shouldn’t be held back because a candidate that is not progressive on that singular issue is chosen.
Ultimately, there’s nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.
Harris literally said she planned to unconditionally support Israel “defending itself” which at that point meant it had already mass murdered tens of thousands of children in so called self defense. Are you really so devoid of empathy and morals that mass murder of innocents is something you don’t care about? Every timie ICE kills innocent people in the US, that is what you voted for.
I do, in fact, care more about what happens in my country than on the other side of the planet. When a party runs a fascist candidate on a fascist platform in my country, that is what I care about the most. I will take what is happening to other people on the other side of the globe secondary to that. I will not allow their issue to turn me into a single issue voter and jeopardize the safety of my democracy.
Nothing you can say will change the fact that Trump/Republicans are worse for Gaza than Kamala/Democrats.
The decision was binary. This one or that one will win. The choice was unbelievably obvious, whether you’re taking our nation or Gaza into account.
AIPAC—and by extension Israel—has strong influence over both the Republicans and Democrats, so only voting for a candidate entirely free of that influence will often result in not voting. While the war criminals in the Israeli military and government deserve to be tried for their crimes, anyone who also cared at all about the many other issues at stake—including the far greater level of suffering being incurred by the Ukrainian people—should have voted for Harris to keep Trump out of office.
Far greater absolute suffering has occurred as a result of their failure to do so. Non-voters are equally as responsible for Trump’s election as Trump voters.
Just looking at numbers alone and a majority of deaths of innocent Palestinians occurred while Kamala was second in command. At least make it make sense.
After the Biden/Kamala administration had already vetoed multiple UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire and sent millions to fund genocide, when asked about it she said she’ll unconditionally support Israel’s right to “defend itself.” Anyone that isn’t an idiot knows the US unconditionally supporting Israel’s right to self-defense is just a green light for more genocide, otherwise it wouldn’t be unconditional.
Nothing you’ve said changes that Trump/Republicans are worse for Palestine (AND AMERICA) than Kamala/Democrats.
Like, you keep repeating the same things, but nothing you keep repeating changes that.
So I guess you just have one question to answer.
Do you believe it is better to sit in a corner and cry about the world and how bad it is, or to vote in a manner that will help as much as you, as an individual, have the power to help, even if that means just minimizing the amount of pain and suffering?
First don’t muddy the waters with things like “far from ideal;” we know what she was: a genocidal piece of shit. To some people there’s a maximum number of pictures of dismembered children after which these things don’t matter anymore.
On the other hand, from an electoral strategy standpoint it’s not like weathering the Trump storm is going to mean victory for democracy; MAGA is ultimately a product of current living conditions, and Trump is nothing more than the demagogue they coalesced around. They’re only going to get worse until either democracy collapses or someone (probably a leftist) changes things for the better. Time is on their side, not yours. Vote blue no matter who is only an optimal strategy if you refuse to think about anything beyond the next four years. These people made the price of their vote abundantly clear as part of an organized large movement; they did everything right and the Democrats refused to listen.
Gaza is the most asinine issue to be a single-issue voter over; Trump was guaranteed to be more pro-Israel than Harris, so enabling his victory guaranteed further suffering in Gaza.
Rejecting Harris for not being progressive enough on the issue not only emboldened Netanyahu to expand the conflict, but also enabled the enactment of Project 2025, resulting in further deaths internationally, the denial of equal rights to transgender Americans, and the expansion of ICE to commit further atrocities, among many other expressions of fascism in the U.S…
The bottom line is single issue Gaza voters cared more about their moral comfort than doing what was in their power to help minimize the pain and suffering of Palestinians.
As you said, this wasn’t a confusing election, it was very clear Trump would be more pro-Israel and doesn’t give a flying fuck about Palestinians. He was clearly the worst choice for Gaza. Therefore, anyone helping him win by not voting or voting for a candidate with absolutely zero path to victory, chose their own comfort over the lives of Palestinians.
These are people whose perceived morality prevented them from connecting the dots to realize that whether it made them upset or not, Kamala or Trump was winning, and they could have done something to help Palestinians, but chose not to.
And, as you said, in the process of this failure to acknowledge reality, they also helped to SIGNIFICANTLY damage our own nation.
It’s clear you didn’t read a single damn word I wrote and just wanted to rant. Unless you respond to literally anything I said, this conversation is over.
I read it, I just disagreed with it. A continuation of the status quo under Harris would have been better than a descent into fascism under Trump and Netanyahu feeling emboldened with an ideological ally in the White House. Given that AOC is polling worse than other potential Democratic frontrunners against Vance and Rubio, letting Trump enact Project 2025 is likely to push other issues to the forefront in 2028, rather than hold Israel accountable for its genocide in Gaza—waiting four years is unlikely to have any positive impact on that issue.
Progressivism under a candidate like AOC would be the ideal, including a platform that cuts off arm sales to Israel and supports the conviction of Netanyahu for war crimes under the auspices of the ICC, but progress on every other issue at stake shouldn’t be held back because a candidate that is not progressive on that singular issue is chosen.
Ultimately, there’s nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.
Harris literally said she planned to unconditionally support Israel “defending itself” which at that point meant it had already mass murdered tens of thousands of children in so called self defense. Are you really so devoid of empathy and morals that mass murder of innocents is something you don’t care about? Every timie ICE kills innocent people in the US, that is what you voted for.
I do, in fact, care more about what happens in my country than on the other side of the planet. When a party runs a fascist candidate on a fascist platform in my country, that is what I care about the most. I will take what is happening to other people on the other side of the globe secondary to that. I will not allow their issue to turn me into a single issue voter and jeopardize the safety of my democracy.
Nothing you can say will change the fact that Trump/Republicans are worse for Gaza than Kamala/Democrats.
The decision was binary. This one or that one will win. The choice was unbelievably obvious, whether you’re taking our nation or Gaza into account.
AIPAC—and by extension Israel—has strong influence over both the Republicans and Democrats, so only voting for a candidate entirely free of that influence will often result in not voting. While the war criminals in the Israeli military and government deserve to be tried for their crimes, anyone who also cared at all about the many other issues at stake—including the far greater level of suffering being incurred by the Ukrainian people—should have voted for Harris to keep Trump out of office.
Far greater absolute suffering has occurred as a result of their failure to do so. Non-voters are equally as responsible for Trump’s election as Trump voters.
Just looking at numbers alone and a majority of deaths of innocent Palestinians occurred while Kamala was second in command. At least make it make sense.
After the Biden/Kamala administration had already vetoed multiple UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire and sent millions to fund genocide, when asked about it she said she’ll unconditionally support Israel’s right to “defend itself.” Anyone that isn’t an idiot knows the US unconditionally supporting Israel’s right to self-defense is just a green light for more genocide, otherwise it wouldn’t be unconditional.
Nothing you’ve said changes that Trump/Republicans are worse for Palestine (AND AMERICA) than Kamala/Democrats.
Like, you keep repeating the same things, but nothing you keep repeating changes that.
So I guess you just have one question to answer.
Do you believe it is better to sit in a corner and cry about the world and how bad it is, or to vote in a manner that will help as much as you, as an individual, have the power to help, even if that means just minimizing the amount of pain and suffering?
seems to me if israel has the capability to project murder outside of their boarders, they don’t need american defense munitions nor money.