• Dearth@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Navigation with a suitcase sized device that doesn’t rely on hundreds of thousands of satellites? Honestly this sounds great.

    • heartSagan5@lemmy.zip
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      1 hour ago

      It’ll get scuttled by the intelligence community so they can use it in the intelligence community.

  • ramenshaman@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Using quantum sensors, the company achieved ten times the accuracy of conventional satellite-based navigation systems, while maintaining the one nautical mile positioning accuracy.

    Don’t we use GPS accurate to within centimeters for construction?

    • some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      High-end dual-frequency receivers ($$$) can do this, yes. But the earth’s magnetic field is not controlled by any government or military entities. This is pretty big

      • ramenshaman@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        I see what you mean. Yeah that’s pretty cool then. And I guess it might be impossible to jam quantum GPS.

        Username checks out.

    • Zephyr@sh.itjust.works
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      4 hours ago

      Not a single gps but multiple, the same trick could be done with this theoretically

  • Rob T Firefly@lemmy.world
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    13 hours ago

    The trouble with Quantum Navigation is you might end up where you were trying to go, but at a random point in the past where you have to change history to put right something that once went wrong.

  • time2lose@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Quantum freaks me out.
    How can we possibly make a point we are not in a simulation.

    • bunchberry@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      No reason to believe we are in a simulation and nothing about quantum suggests we are.

      • sanitation@lemmy.today
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        5 hours ago

        Reality is probabilistic and none knows why, almost like someone programmed a video game.

        Noone knows why quantum outcome changes based on mere observation. You get what I’m saying - just by me looking at the experiment result changes. I have to observe the reality in order to force it’s hand and render the outcome. If I were to design a video game I would surely not render the entire world unless someone interacts with it - to conserve resources.

        And now there is this: modern work suggests that the extra spatial dimension itself may emerge from quantum entanglement. Roughly: 2D quantum information → entanglement structure → emergent 3D geometry/spacetime.

        I don’t know about you, but this sure as hell seems like a graphics engine.

        And another thing : At the deepest level, the universe may consist of quantum information and relationships. Space and time emerge from how that information is organized and changes.

        So… Do I understand it right? “It from bit” as they call it - is this basically like a video game source code? We are “information” floating in space?

        And why is spacetime quantized? - This is pretty crazy imo. Nature just allows only specific values? Wow. if this is a video game or simulation I would surely allow only specific values.

        Definitely smells like a simulation.

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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          31 minutes ago

          Reality is probabilistic and none knows why, almost like someone programmed a video game.

          How is that anything like a video game? What even is your reasoning here?

          You get what I’m saying - just by me looking at the experiment result changes. I have to observe the reality in order to force it’s hand and render the outcome.

          According to some interpretations, but none of the main ones. And it would in no way imply simulation even if it was true.

          If I were to design a video game I would surely not render the entire world unless someone interacts with it - to conserve resources.

          Having every possibility simulated until observed would be infinitely more resources intensive than just having a classical single state the whole time. Which is why actual video game designers don’t do this.

          And now there is this: modern work suggests that the extra spatial dimension itself may emerge from quantum entanglement. Roughly: 2D quantum information → entanglement structure → emergent 3D geometry/spacetime.

          No it doesn’t. I’m guessing that this is some vague misunderstood conception of the holographic principle but this is not how it works

          And why is spacetime quantized? - This is pretty crazy imo.

          It’s not. Spacetime is not quantized in QM

        • bunchberry@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Reality is probabilistic and none knows why, almost like someone programmed a video game.

          Some videos have probability, especially RPGs, but that is definitely not an inherent feature of video games.

          No one knows why quantum outcome changes based on mere observation.

          A measurement is an interaction, and an interaction inherently disturbs what it is interacting with. In the macroscopic world, we can avoid this through very subtle measurements that don’t disturb the system enough to matter. But Planck’s constant places an absolute limit on how subtle a disturbance can be. When we measure properties on a small enough scale, you just cannot physically interact with it in a way that is subtle enough to not noticeably disturb it.

          I don’t know why people always act like this is beyond human comprehension. It’s not complicated or counterintuitive. It’s just what the physicist Dmitry Blokhintsev referred to as the “finiteness of interaction.” In classical mechanics, we tend to believe that it is always possible to have better precision in your measurement devices, and so infinite precision is conceivably possible, even if practically impossible. However, in quantum mechanics, precision is finite due to h. Infinite precision just is not possible.

          You get what I’m saying - just by me looking at the experiment result changes.

          You say “just by me looking” as if it’s insignificant.

          Yes, on the macroscopic scale, bouncing photons off of things (looking) at something does not (typically) significantly alter its macroscopic properties. But it does alter its microscopic properties, and so on a microscopic scale, it is changing.

          Hence, if you are looking at it at a microscopic scale, then bombarding it with photons is going to significantly alter what you see.

          I have to observe the reality in order to force it’s hand and render the outcome. Not sure what that means or where that even came from, in regards to what you have said previously. If I were to design a video game I would surely not render the entire world unless someone interacts with it - to conserve resources.

          I am not sure how you jumped from “if we try to measure something we change it” to “things aren’t rendered until you look.” That’s a big leap. I don’t know where it came from.

          Also, if it were to conserve resources, then no one would bother trying to develop quantum computers, because they would compute less than classical computers. But the fact is they compute more. The mathematical structure of quantum physics is exponentially more complicated than classical physics. If I was designing an efficient video came engine, I would definitely not use quantum physics!

          It just does not conserve resources but uses exponentially more resources. That’s just a mathematical fact.

          And now there is this: modern work suggests that the extra spatial dimension itself may emerge from quantum entanglement. Roughly: 2D quantum information → entanglement structure → emergent 3D geometry/spacetime.

          You say “modern work” but you’re really just talking about speculative papers by String Theorists building on other speculative theories. It’s really just a mathematical curiosity with no way to test it and is certainly not accepted by the broad scientific community.

          I don’t know about you, but this sure as hell seems like a graphics engine.

          I have never seen a graphics engine that uses 2D quantum information and entanglement to produce 3D effects. What on earth? This is another leap which I am genuinely baffled at where it even came from.

          And another thing : At the deepest level, the universe may consist of quantum information and relationships. Space and time emerge from how that information is organized and changes. So… Do I understand it right? “It from bit” as they call it - is this basically like a video game source code? We are “information” floating in space?

          You are trying to draw analogies between computers and reality, that reality contains information, and so does computer code, therefore reality is computer code. But the comparison can equally go the opposite direction: computers contain information because reality contains information, and therefore that only proves computers are physical, not that reality is a computer.

          I see this fallacious line of reasoning all the time from proponents of the simulation hypothesis, whereby they draw comparisons between computers and physics and then want to declare that this means physical reality is a computer. But computers are parts of physical reality, constructed within it, and have to follow its own laws. And so it is only natural there would be similarities.

          Again, similarities between computers and physics only proves that computers are physical. It does not prove reality is a computer.

          And why is spacetime quantized? - This is pretty crazy imo.

          It’s literally not. In both general relativity and quantum mechanics, it is continuous.

          Quantum mechanics does not mean “everything is quantized.” Plenty of things still are continuous, including spacetime.

          It is only quantized in some fringe speculative theories which are not even complete and only worked on by a tiny handful of physicists, like Loop Quantum Gravity. I don’t know where you got the idea from that spacetime is quantized. That is definitely not part of contemporary, established physics.

    • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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      5 hours ago

      Well, can you make any predictions about the future state of the simulation from present and the rules you think you’ve got right? Just because it is something “computed” from a previous state doesn’t mean that you can compute it yourself…and…if you can’t make predictions…it is just conjecture (limited by our imagination of the state of the art, which now is a simulation, but it used to be god’s creation, then clockwork, then a machine, now a computer/simulation. I can’t imagine what the conjecture will become in the future…hopefully not some shitty spatial diffusion+LLM model where hallucinations are wavefunction collapse to unlikely values, lol.

  • hamsamrich@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    “Quantum sensors can sense the tiniest of changes in the gravity or magnetic field and use a previously prepared map of these properties to determine their location. Since a quantum sensor does not need to receive or send a signal to an external device, it cannot be hacked or be spoofed by a fake incoming signal either. “ Very cool!

        • zaphod@sopuli.xyz
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          18 hours ago

          So you constantly need updated maps. Reminds me of celestial navigation where you always need an up-to-date almanac.

            • zaphod@sopuli.xyz
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              16 hours ago

              What? You just download a new map for the area you want to go to every year or so, no need for GPS

              • ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world
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                13 hours ago

                I’m not sure you got me. How do the map makers update the map? If the gravity variance changes so it can’t be used to determine your position then clearly you need some other way to determine your position to update the gravity map. And what might that be??

                • zaphod@sopuli.xyz
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                  12 hours ago

                  Using the same reference points on earth that GPS uses, that doesn’t mean using GPS.

      • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        I don’t think it’s realistically possible to do that totally undetected. Since the earth’s magnetic field is so weak and field strength goes down rapidly as distance increases, malicious actors probably couldn’t spoof patterns well enough to make the data look real, at least not without coming very close and staying near their target.

  • Zedstrian@sopuli.xyz
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    1 day ago

    The team achieved 10 times better performance than GNSS systems, with a one nautical mile of positioning accuracy.

    Variation up to a full nautical mile doesn’t seem very accurate?

      • SatanClaws@lemmy.world
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        23 hours ago

        Inertial navigation (INSS) and GNSS (Sat nav)is two completely different concepts. Too bad the article misses this. Perhaps AI hallucinations?

    • Hasnep@lemmy.ml
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      23 hours ago

      If I were in the middle of the ocean I couldn’t find my location within 100 nautical miles without GPS so I’m pretty impressed

      • kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        19 hours ago

        Then you wouldn’t be the ideal thing to compare this to. An experienced navigator with a couple basic tools could do similarly.

        • Hasnep@lemmy.ml
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          17 hours ago

          Okay, so it’s as good as an experienced navigator, that seems pretty good to me!

        • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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          17 hours ago

          Experience navigators with some basic tools often ended up hundreds and hundreds of miles off course because they had no reference points. If you’re navigation system is landmarks plus a sextant then it’s not going to be very accurate.

          When you’re trying to transit the ocean one nautical miles worth of accuracy isn’t bad, especially if the alternative is to use a potentially compromised GPS or a 15th century navigation tool.

    • cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 day ago

      That’s comparable to what a skilled navigator can do with a sextant and chronometer. That’s more than enough accuracy to cross the ocean and get close enough to the port that you can see it.

    • Deebster@infosec.pub
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      1 day ago

      The only thing I can think is that they’re comparing with a single system (e.g. GPS or BeiDou), even though GNSS receivers will combine all four systems to get very high accuracy (a few metres).

      • elmicha@feddit.org
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        1 day ago

        20 years ago we had only GPS, and it already was accurate to 10 or 20 meters.

        • zqps@sh.itjust.works
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          1 day ago

          GPS is actually far more accurate than that. There is deterministic jitter introduced to make civilian use cases precise to only a few meters, but military equipment has the algorithm to subtract that jitter and achieve precision measured in centimeters.

          Anyway, that statement is highly misleading. They were comparing to previous inertial navigation systems, not GPS navigation.

        • Deebster@infosec.pub
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          1 day ago

          Is that true globally? I seem to remember that some ocean areas wouldn’t have as many satellites visible as e.g. polar orbits don’t visit all of the globe.

    • Gsus4@mander.xyzOP
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      1 day ago

      Yeah, I agree that I didnt understand that bit. I also didn’t understand why you need a quantum sensor to follow a map of gravitational and magnetic anomalies for orientation.

  • melsaskca@lemmy.ca
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    17 hours ago

    The gravitational pull is stronger on the left side so you have to account for that or else you’ll just sail around in circles. /s

  • diaphragmwp@discuss.tchncs.de
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    13 hours ago

    Wow, more AI. For some reason. This doesn’t sound like it needs AI but the investors would pay less, of course!