I’m in a thread where the entire idea of AI/LLMs has been declared facist, with ZERO legitimate use cases other than facism
A disappointment I’ve noticed with lemmy is that its community doesn’t often see the nuances in things as if to day its all black or white. Its probably not just lemmy, but all internet communities nowadays. Lemmy just sways towards anti AI more and it really leaves a bad taste when coupled with “if not with us, then against us” mindset.
Yes. It’s not just about nuance anymore. In the old days on the internet you can find some spaces where there’s at least a baseline level of intellectual honesty. Lemmy has not escaped echochamberization.
There’s a huge portion of lemmy who think even one token of AI is unacceptable for any reason
I think a lot of that is to do with how people claim to have written something themselves, and when pressed, admit they used AI for a bit “here and there”, and when double-checked it becomes clear they vibe-coded the whole thing. People lie, basically, and if someone lies about their use of AI that’s probably a harbinger of slop.
Ah, yeah, no, I get it, I see it’s reminiscent of cockroaches: if you actually SEE even just one of them, it is very very likely there are more. A lot more.
You assume humans don’t ever write sloppy code and Linux Torvalds has never before encountered someone wanting to merge in sloppy code before. If in decades he hasn’t gotten comfy with sloppy code written by humans, why would he suddenly be merging in sloppy code written by an AI? He’s never been worried about hurting the feelings of a human that’s writing sloppy, do you suppose he’s going to develop empathy for an LLM that’s writing sloppy code?
The people that go all in on vibe coding are people that aren’t very good programmers to begin with. They don’t really understand how to write code and then suddenly they can make things work quickly. Well sort of work. At least work about as well as they could with their limited skills.
People that are actually good at programming know what good code is. After decades of working with code and knowing what it’s supposed to be, you don’t suddenly become a vibe coder saying eh, it kind of works, good enough, ship it. Its the people that were never able to write high quality code to begin with that do that. It can do the job of a lazy programmer that has a low standard of quality. For a skilled developer, it can sometimes save on typing on some simple tasks, and a good developer knows when it did something wrong and be all Thanos and say “fine, I’ll do it myself”.
Do you completely fail at critical thinking? I’ll slow it down so you can understand:
Linus sees sloppy code written by a human
Linus sees sloppy code written by an AI
Why did #1 not corrupt him have decades, but #2 definitely will? There is no reason, sloppy code is sloppy code whether written by a human or written by an AI.
You’re equating shitty developers becoming vibe coders with a skilled software engineer using a tool. I think you just don’t know the difference between a junior developer and a senior software engineer. Maybe you just don’t have any experience in software development and are just reading articles on random websites.
yeah it’s not gonna lead to any problems lol. meanwhile reality is disagreeing. I get it, you’re a slopfan, so this pointless you’re not going to listen / try to understand, but for the rest of the audience, here’s some other views:
Yeah I get it, you’re someone who goes along with the narratives from articles that an algorithm selected for you. I guess you just got comfy with going along AI algorithms in your information consumption so you assume others will too.
If AI makes Linus more (quantity) or more severely (quality) error-prone than without the AI, that, and only that is an argument against AI being a tech asset for Linus.
Just one bad Linux kernel commit slip up related to AI is not an argument.
That said, the macro impact of the AI data centers and AI on: electric power generation and grids, pollution (smelly exhaust, noise, CO2), fresh water demands, socioeconomic power imbalance exacerbation, surveillance capitalism, questionable military usages, rogue agentic AI doing hacks and crimes to fulfill oterwise legal/ethical objectives, AI chatbot relationship addiction, these are some of what I consider real and urgent problems with AI.
As an individual, his LLM carbon footprint and money used to purchase AI services aren’t going to matter at all. But him being one of the world’s highest profiled software engineers who’s openly using these tools is very good publicity for them.
I think the anti ai crowd has been focusing on the slop angle too much, the horrible malpractice of these companies is the real problem imo. If it really is only slop it will die out by itself.
Using AI is not the same as vibe coding.
Asking AI to write a piece of code and then read it, understand and use, is a very reasonable use case.
i’ve been in dozens of lemmy threads that disagree…
There’s a huge portion of lemmy who think even one token of AI is unacceptable for any reason
I’m in a thread where the entire idea of AI/LLMs has been declared facist, with ZERO legitimate use cases other than facism
A disappointment I’ve noticed with lemmy is that its community doesn’t often see the nuances in things as if to day its all black or white. Its probably not just lemmy, but all internet communities nowadays. Lemmy just sways towards anti AI more and it really leaves a bad taste when coupled with “if not with us, then against us” mindset.
Yes. It’s not just about nuance anymore. In the old days on the internet you can find some spaces where there’s at least a baseline level of intellectual honesty. Lemmy has not escaped echochamberization.
It’s just a tool. All tools have good and bad use cases.
I agree…
But check out the other discussions on lemmy about AI …
if you’re not 100% against it, you’re a facist
that’s like declaring electric light racism and keep using light bulbs…
Like all people that see racism everywhere, they will fail…
It’s a tool, use it where it works well.
I agree with you…
But be prepared to be labelled a facist on lemmy
apparently there’s no such thing as a neutral technology or tool
I think a lot of that is to do with how people claim to have written something themselves, and when pressed, admit they used AI for a bit “here and there”, and when double-checked it becomes clear they vibe-coded the whole thing. People lie, basically, and if someone lies about their use of AI that’s probably a harbinger of slop.
Ah, yeah, no, I get it, I see it’s reminiscent of cockroaches: if you actually SEE even just one of them, it is very very likely there are more. A lot more.
I wonder how long before he gets comfy relying on it and something really shitty slips in.
Dude merges in code into the kernel originating from how many thousands of developers from around the world?
Read the LKML if you think he’s a guy that’s prone to getting comfy with merging in sub-par code.
oh he’s quick to put the brakes on other PR’s including slop code.
https://www.tomshardware.com/software/linux/linux-lays-down-the-law-on-ai-generated-code-yes-to-copilot-no-to-ai-slop-and-humans-take-the-fall-for-mistakes-after-months-of-fierce-debate-torvalds-and-maintainers-come-to-an-agreement
which makes me wonder how long until he’s comfy and forgets sometimes the slop comes from inside the building lol.
You assume humans don’t ever write sloppy code and Linux Torvalds has never before encountered someone wanting to merge in sloppy code before. If in decades he hasn’t gotten comfy with sloppy code written by humans, why would he suddenly be merging in sloppy code written by an AI? He’s never been worried about hurting the feelings of a human that’s writing sloppy, do you suppose he’s going to develop empathy for an LLM that’s writing sloppy code?
The people that go all in on vibe coding are people that aren’t very good programmers to begin with. They don’t really understand how to write code and then suddenly they can make things work quickly. Well sort of work. At least work about as well as they could with their limited skills.
People that are actually good at programming know what good code is. After decades of working with code and knowing what it’s supposed to be, you don’t suddenly become a vibe coder saying eh, it kind of works, good enough, ship it. Its the people that were never able to write high quality code to begin with that do that. It can do the job of a lazy programmer that has a low standard of quality. For a skilled developer, it can sometimes save on typing on some simple tasks, and a good developer knows when it did something wrong and be all Thanos and say “fine, I’ll do it myself”.
damn dude, did you completely fail reading and comprehension? because you’re replying to a link to me pointing that exact fuckin thing out.
maybe slow down and try harder.
like, it’s in the link title text, right there.
as long as they stay proficient. but prolonged exposure to AI slop tends to have a damaging effect - https://thenewstack.io/karpathy-says-developers-have-ai-psychosis-everyone-else-is-next/
so I stick with my premise: how long before it has an effect on him?
Do you completely fail at critical thinking? I’ll slow it down so you can understand:
Linus sees sloppy code written by a human
Linus sees sloppy code written by an AI
Why did #1 not corrupt him have decades, but #2 definitely will? There is no reason, sloppy code is sloppy code whether written by a human or written by an AI.
You’re equating shitty developers becoming vibe coders with a skilled software engineer using a tool. I think you just don’t know the difference between a junior developer and a senior software engineer. Maybe you just don’t have any experience in software development and are just reading articles on random websites.
just gonna end this pointless chat here:
Yeah I get it, you’re someone who goes along with the narratives from articles that an algorithm selected for you. I guess you just got comfy with going along AI algorithms in your information consumption so you assume others will too.
Is Linus error-free pre-AI?
If AI makes Linus more (quantity) or more severely (quality) error-prone than without the AI, that, and only that is an argument against AI being a tech asset for Linus.
Just one bad Linux kernel commit slip up related to AI is not an argument.
That said, the macro impact of the AI data centers and AI on: electric power generation and grids, pollution (smelly exhaust, noise, CO2), fresh water demands, socioeconomic power imbalance exacerbation, surveillance capitalism, questionable military usages, rogue agentic AI doing hacks and crimes to fulfill oterwise legal/ethical objectives, AI chatbot relationship addiction, these are some of what I consider real and urgent problems with AI.
As an individual, his LLM carbon footprint and money used to purchase AI services aren’t going to matter at all. But him being one of the world’s highest profiled software engineers who’s openly using these tools is very good publicity for them.
I think the anti ai crowd has been focusing on the slop angle too much, the horrible malpractice of these companies is the real problem imo. If it really is only slop it will die out by itself.
so many possible upsides it’s hard to pick which one will end the species.
fml