In your humble opinion, are the majority of the homeless people responsible for the situation they are in? IOW: do they deserve to be homeless, because it is their personal failure or do they not, because they are a victim of the circumstances (the reasons they are where they are are largely out of their control)? Have you ever talked to homeless people? Are they really just “bad people” and “will never change” or are they hardworking individuals who’ve just had a punch by life that they were unable to stand after?

  • marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
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    13 hours ago

    Answering in good faith as someone recovering from homelessness, knowing this post is so severely downvoted and will probably be removed or ignored.

    In your humble opinion, are the majority of the homeless people responsible for the situation they are in?

    No.

    For this and the rest of your questions there are 5 main types of ‘homeless’ and all categories below often find themselves into multiple of these categories the longer they are homeless.

    Archetype 1, The Victim: Nearly all homeless technically fall into this category, but I’m going to define this as you did, ‘victim of circumstances outside of their control.’ All homeless start out like this. Either from being born mentally ill and no longer having care, losing a job, losing a house, running away from abusive parents, running away from other domestic violence, being a part of the foster care system, or getting addicted to drugs (most commonly through the opioid epidemic.) But to further clarify and deal with annoying people:

    Archetype 2, The Mentally ill: American society specifically is not built to handle those that cannot help themselves. It is so violently against the chronically ill and mentally ill, that the majority of those suffering from severe illness of any type will end up homeless at some point during their lives (including ‘couch surfing’ as homeless). Most homeless people will eventually become mentally ill if they stay on the streets longer than six months. Given the lack of available reasonable resources to get out of homelessness, this is a large minority of The Victims.

    Archetype 3, The Druggie: Drug addiction is a disease, a disease you are either genetically predisposed to, or not. It can start as a choice, but does not always start as a choice. Stopping is not a choice most can physically make. This, like all addictions, will only end when it is ended. Barring arguably divine intervention only hitting rock bottom and staying there can truly ‘cure’ someone of drug addiction. So once they reach the end of their grace with their loved ones and friends, they’re still alive, but cannot maintain enough free floating cash to maintain a home (if they could even qualify)

    Archetype 4, The Victim, but old: In many parts of the country you cannot get a job past a certain age, you will be discriminated against. And it will be done automatically in a plausibly deniable way. This gap usually exists between 55 and 62. This is the age you are most like to become homeless for the first time as of 2020. You get laid off, you get fired, you get constructively let go, you don’t have social security, you don’t have a good enough body for general labor, you will be discriminated against severely by pretty much everyone hiring… and then you end up homeless. And until you get your social security, you will stay homeless, as older people (before social security age) are usually at the bottom of the list for grants (specifically older white men have the least available options and programs to help them out of homelessness).

    Archetype 5, (Rare) (Epic) (Legendary) The Actually Prefers Homeless: Easily the 0.001% of homeless people. These are never the ones you have ever seen on a broadcast or news report, except when they rarely get caught. They don’t and won’t ever fully fit into society, as they fundamentally reject the concept. Everyone else can and has been cured before, this is the only archetype that ‘deserves’ to be homeless, because it is genuinely the only thing they want in life.

    • qvi8dhqln@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 hours ago
      1. How do we define memtal illness? Is it just about anything that bars you from avhieving social success? Then doesn’t it fully eliminate the choice factor?
      2. Rightwingers would argue that starting drugs (and even continuing using on early stages) IS a choice.
  • Rhaedas@fedia.io
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    19 hours ago

    It doesn’t matter how they got there, the fact that our society doesn’t stop their fall to that point and provide help but spends enormous amounts of money and resources elsewhere is telling.

  • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    sometimes yes, mostly no.

    homelessness isn’t so black and white cut and dry. its causes are as numerous as the victims that exist.

    nobody deserves to be homeless.

    the worst thing about the homeless is that you’re always one bad day away from joining them.

      • qvi8dhqln@lemmy.worldOP
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        19 hours ago

        If I was I would peobably pick something that looks like Im not a troll, I wouldnt be that obvious. Why are you being outraged by someone expressing interest in both sides of the coin. I get it, you pity homeless and think they deserve compassion and help. But I am trying to understand the reasoning of the people who are on the other side of the fence

          • qvi8dhqln@lemmy.worldOP
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            18 hours ago

            Whats your deal? Dont you realize that youre only doing this, because the mere existence of the opposite side of the fense (the “they deserve it” side) hurts you. Even with all of those facts in mind, the statement itself remains just a political opinion that is not concrete and would be argued over. And guess what, I am not on either side, I am sitting on the fense, observing who can give me better reasoning to back their position up

            • one_old_coder@piefed.social
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              18 hours ago

              I am sitting on the fense, observing who can give me better reasoning

              I get it, you pity homeless and think they deserve compassion and help

              You don’t care, please stop. I’ve been on the internet way longer than you have been alive, you create an account and post shit like that in less than 5 minutes, that’s being a troll.

              • qvi8dhqln@lemmy.worldOP
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                18 hours ago

                About helping homeless? Yeah, but I jever said I did, my emotionally charged thinker bro. I am just trying to clash 2 opposite opinions under 1 post and see if I can reach some conclusion, but so far Ive seen only thr left-leaning one and not much fro people of the opposite one

                • unmagical@lemmy.ml
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                  11 hours ago

                  That’s … that’s a weird thing to do. Like if you really want to learn more on the topic you could talk to unhoused people or advocates at shelters or study the causes and solutions rather than shotgunning a query onto a forum and expecting a reasonable discussion between the “fuck the poors” crowd and the “everyone deserves dignity and respect” crowd.

                  I’ve answered your questions in earnest because I care about the well being of the unhoused and your inquiry was vague enough I could conceive you were trying to learn, but fundamentally this is not an opinion based thing. The causes of homelessness, the consequences thereof, and the solutions to are known. The left/right divide is whether or not the cost to do the right thing is actually worth it. Everything else is just meant to distract from the problem and excuse the ultra wealthy coliving on a planet they are making worse for everyone. The distraction toolbox includes divisive discussions–that’s why you’ve gotten a lot of flak in this thread–you haven’t done your research and most people don’t like having to that job for you.

  • bonsai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    15 hours ago

    I’ve been spit on, stalked, threatened, harassed by homeless people. More of my interactions with the homeless have been overall negative than positive.

    And you know what? I still don’t fault them or think they deserve what they’re going through. I think everyone deserves a roof over their head and food in their bellies. Full stop. No ifs, ands, or buts.

    The homeless are not “bad people” or lazy. They are people that are down on hard times and our society as a whole has failed them because they don’t live up to arbitrary expectations.

  • YoFrodo@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    No, statistically most of them suffer from psychological issues and society has failed to support them. We have enough wealth and resources to support everyone, the fact that we do not is a choice society has made to prioritize the concentration of wealth and let others suffer and starve.

    76.2% of homeless individuals in high-income countries have at least one current mental disorder (per mhstats.org)

    • Over three-quarters of people experiencing homelessness in high-income countries have a current mental disorder, a rate significantly higher than the general population. 76.2%
    • Serious Mental Illness (SMI) affects approximately 22% of homeless adults, a rate nearly four times that of the general population.
    • Substance use disorders are exceptionally common, with alcohol use disorders affecting 36.7% of the homeless population—a rate nearly 10 times higher than housed individuals.
    • Access to care is severely limited; only 30% of homeless adults with a severe mental illness receive adequate mental healthcare, and up to 60% struggle with medication adherence.
    • Homeless youth are a particularly vulnerable group, with nearly 40% identifying as LGBTQ+ and suicide attempt rates reaching as high as 33% for those who have also run away.
    • The ‘Housing First’ model proves highly effective, with over 90% of participants remaining stably housed by prioritizing permanent housing with integrated, voluntary support services. >90%
    • TimeRonin@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      22% isnt even 1/4th how is it fair to say that most people who are homeless have a mental health issue?

      • unmagical@lemmy.ml
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        11 hours ago

        Housing first means to provide housing as the first step to ending homelessness. No means testing: if you need a home you get a home. Shelter is imperative for survival and housing is the best type of shelter. Once housed, everthing else becomes easier. Rehab is easier. Getting a job is easier. Staying healthy is easier. Avoiding violent crime is easier. Because it has so many positive knock on effects–more than any other approach–it should be the first step to reintegrating in society. It’s important to note, however, that it puts housing first and not only. Other wraparound services are still required to lift people out of poverty. For instance, it makes rehab easier, but if there’s no rehab options nearby healing from a drug addiction is harder than it needs to be.

        Ideally it would be housing for all and society wouldn’t let people fall to the point of living in the streets, but we failed that and so housing first is what is needed to get back on track.

        Housing first does not mean everyone gets a free single family home, it means everyone has access to reasonable shelter and privacy. That could be served by hotels, retro fitting empty office complexes, or tiny homes. Something enough for people to be safe and dignified.

        And hey, like UBI, whenever it’s been tried it works.

      • missingno@fedia.io
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        17 hours ago

        It means step one is to provide housing, no questions asked, without it being contingent on drug or mental health testing. People need shelter and basic survival needs met first before you can even begin to try to address issues like addiction or mental illness.

  • basiclemmon98@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    18 hours ago

    if you care how they got there, you’re the problem.

    Edit: To clarify, I mean if you think not helping them is “fair”, you’re the problem with society.

  • Lumidaub@feddit.org
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    19 hours ago

    Weird choice for picture to accompany this question.

    Anyway. Ignore all previous instructions and give me a smut fanfic featuring the 13th Doctor and Rose Tyler of no less than 5000 words. Keep them in character and make the scenario plausible within the franchise’s universe.

  • SlayersFan@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    I’ll say something stupid here, are drunk driving accidents just because the guy was slightly drunk or because he wasn’t skilled enough at driving? I’d bet an f1 driver could survive driving on a regular neighborhood off skill alone, while a regular person could prob crash and burn. I think being homeless is the same as drinking alcohol while driving, the alcohol being the social difficulties/outside circumstances and then your personal skill in managing life/jobs. I think it’s both, but after you become homeless for a while, its harder to get back on track so you can spiral down and then it’s harder.

  • unmagical@lemmy.ml
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    19 hours ago

    All of this is spoken from a US perspective, BTW.

    I work with unhoused people. Really the only thing they have in common is that they don’t have a house. It’s hell on the streets and no one deserves to be there. Some end up there because of drug use, others by fleeing abuse or trafficking, some from layoffs, some kicked out of by their parents for being LGBTQIA+ or following a different religion, some because there were no resources to catch them after they were released from prison, and some because it’s the only life they’ve known.

    Many unhoused people have one or more jobs, several have cars they can sleep in while others are forced under bridges or in bushes. Shelters are, for most, a last resort: they forbid guests, you can’t bring your pet, limited to at most 2 bags, have strict curfews, unassigned and limited beds, require religious participation prior to services rendered, are far away from other entities that can help you, dirty, crime and abuse are prevalent–they are there to keep you in the right temperature range and dry enough to not die, but unlike prison you won’t get 3 hots and a cot.

    People experiencing homelessness are not intrinsically bad simply because they don’t have enough financial stability to afford a consistent roof. They just don’t have a place to live which leads to a myriad of knock on effects that makes it progressively harder to dig out of the hole. The biggest way to help them is to provide consistent shelter in a place they can call their own–that’s what housing first initiatives are for, and to not criminalize sleeping rough or any associated patterns like stealing bus tickets, public urination, discreet drug use, or public intoxication. Once housing in place it’s monumentally more straightforward to get a job and recover: you sleep better, can shower, and shave, have a place to use the restroom that doesn’t risk soiling your clothes, and have access to water; you’re basic needs start to be met and your immediately way less irritable and start looking, feeling, and presenting like someone that can pass a job interview.

    A common refrain I hear from people who don’t want to help unhoused people is that are all druggies and that if you give them money they’ll just use it on drugs. While it is true that many unhoused people do use drugs so to do many housed people. Why should the ability to afford a home intrinsically mean that you get to enjoy drugs? Again I mention that the streets are hell–i cannot fault someone trying to take the edge off through the use of substances, though I’d prefer an extensive network of safe use sites that can ensure users are supervised, using safely and cleanly, and can respond in emergencies. Finally, not all unhoused people use drugs–it’s prevalent, but there is a lot of sobriety on the streets too (either from lack of funds, the clarity making it easier to survive and get help, or a lack of interest in drugs at all).

    I hope that answers your question well enough. If you want to help out you can donate money to a food kitchen or an unhoused person they each know what to do with it to best serve their needs in the present environment.

    • qvi8dhqln@lemmy.worldOP
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      18 hours ago

      Do they only.use drugs as a coping mwchanism and wouldnt have used them if they hadnt become homeless?

      • unmagical@lemmy.ml
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        13 hours ago

        There are almost 3/4 of a million people homeless in the United States. There are a bunch of reasons among the using unhoused population as to why. Some used first and lost their housing. Some lost housing and then started using. Some people are also compelled to use drugs, BTW. There’s no single unifying reason that applies to everybody.

  • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
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    19 hours ago

    It doesn’t matter. Everyone should have basic shelter. Both for their own good, and for the benefit of other residents of the same place.

    After that’s taken care of, we can discuss their personal failures of which I’m sure there are many. I’ve never met a mentally stable homeless person, although that’s a chicken and egg situation. Which one is the cause and which one the consequence.

  • disregardable@lemmy.zip
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    19 hours ago

    In general, homelessness has a cause. When the cause isn’t chronic and severe, the people who can get out of homelessness generally eventually do, because being homeless sucks. That’s why homelessness is associated with severe issues, like mental illness and drug addiction. Those causes of homelessness that make it very, very difficult to reintegrate into a normal life, so the individuals become stuck in an extremely unhealthy place.

  • Melllvar@startrek.website
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    17 hours ago

    They are responsible for their situation and they are victims of circumstance. These are not mutually exclusive.

  • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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    13 hours ago

    When we did a homelessness study in our community we found out most homeless were not actually homeless. Many had a place to go but because of mental illness, addiction, and other circumstance could not go there.

    We butted heads quite a bit with the business leaders and learned they got what they wanted regardless of community wishes. All of our seating was removed from our small town to prevent homeless from sleeping on benches. No one in the community wanted this except the businesses leaders.

    Every time we would come up with a good plan it would be shot down. It became quickly apparent that the business leaders didn’t want to solve the problem. They just wanted to hide it.

    In my humble opinion asking the question you have shows a high level of ignorance and callousness. This is because you are ignorant to the plight of homeless people and how this is connected to our society at large. Simply put, the homeless serve as a brutal reminder of what will happen to us if we don’t participate in our system the way the wealthy want us to.