Congressional staff say the mood inside the Capitol is tense, stifling and bewildering as members brush off their constituents’ outrage.

  • nucleative@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    I’m not sure how my idea will come across but here goes.

    This Gaza conflict is complicated as F. I think most people agree with that.

    Pretty much everyone that’s touched it has blood on their hands by this point. And everyone in the fallout has been hurt in some immeasurably painful way.

    The US involvement multiples the complexity because there is evidently a proxy between Hamas and Iran, and the US is already in opposition to Iran in other ways.

    The US is also in the position of throwing its weight around in many other conflicts at the moment.

    Diplomatically, this US is walking a thin line all over the place between needing to show strength vs compassion. Using negotiating finesse vs being strong fisted.

    Inside the US, our representatives ideally can think for themselves, but as a party they hopefully work as a team to represent the American best interests, vis a vis “the people.” Specifically, I mean the people don’t always know what they want or how to get there, nor do they educate themselves as a whole about every issue at play. Not to mention that international diplomacy issues are very often not shared with the public.

    So, yes, the average human with a functioning soul wants to see a ceasefire yesterday. But what if there is something else at play that we don’t know about, which justifies not pressuring Israel to stop?

    • febra@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      “Man, it’s too complicated… I don’t know… man… None of my business…”

      That’s all that I’m getting from this. This is not the first time in history when people have turned a blind eye to a massacre because “it’s too complicated”.

    • mycatiskai@lemmy.one
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      2 years ago

      https://youtu.be/62I61kBahNY?si=EPFMpGYNM1gCK2iT

      Michael Brooks on the complexity of Gaza.

      Leadership of Hamas is in Qatar, money from Qatar was released through Israel by Bibi. So additional to this video showing how not complex it is, the Israeli leader wants Hamas in charge to make sure nothing peaceful happens in a joined Westbank and Gaza.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I think most people agree with that.

      Only the ones filled to the brim with pro-Israeli and pro-colonialist propaganda agrees with you. You are either against white supremacist settler-colonialism or you’re not.

      • nucleative@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        I think this response is why there’s so little productive dialogue out there. Everybody is too deeply entrenched.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          No, this is very productive… more and more people in the world are seeing the monstrosity the west has created in Israel - even USians are waking up to it.

          You’re not bemoaning a lack of “productivity” - you are bemoaning the fact that the propaganda shielding Israel which has been preventing “productivity” for the last seventy years is starting to implode.

          • nucleative@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            I don’t directly have a dog in this fight, and I could never hope to properly untangle the moral standing of each side. At best I can comment on what I see as the obvious righteous mess that it has become.

            Those who are entrenched in their positions and have resorted to slinging labels or using pejoritaves don’t move others closer to their positions, they move them further. That is what I mean by unproductive.

            But I can comment on why the elected American representatives may be letting calls go to voicemail in regards to a ceasefire. Since the beginning of time as we know it, the winner of a conflict writes the history book, and Hamas doesn’t have enough apparent support to emerge from this still controlling Gaza.

            I can imagine an American calculus that history will blame Hamas for the unnecessary deaths, and another few months of not changing the stance on Israel’s strategy will not impact the rest of the course of world affairs in any other significant way.

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              That is what I mean by unproductive.

              The “marketplace of ideas” is a thoroughly debunked idea, Clyde - only the most desperate liberals cling to it these days.

              the winner of a conflict writes the history book, and Hamas

              The entire propaganda model that the US and Europe has spent untold treasure propping up for the last fifty years or so to protect their little white supremacist “fortress state” in the middle-east is falling apart right in front of our eyes… and there’s absolutely nothing that the (so-called) “west” can do to reverse that now.

              This would not have happened were it not for Hamas’ attack.

              They don’t get to write the history books in whatever way they see fit any more - those days are long gone. Any historian that pretends US hegemony in the middle-east hasn’t been significantly weakened due to the (so-called) “War On Terror” isn’t one that’s going to be taken very seriously.

              • ggBarabajagal@lemmy.world
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                2 years ago

                I know that the “United States of America” is the only country with the word “America” in its name. I know that the “United Mexican States” also has the words “united” and states" in its name – are Mexicans “USians” too?

                I know that most Mexicans, by default, refer to people from the United States as “Americanos.” I know that most Canadians are quite happy not to be confused with the “Americans” from south of their border.

                I know that people from the United States of America have been referred to as “Americans” for over 200 years. I know that when someone makes it a point to start calling someone else by a different name than the one that’s preferred, that person is usually pushing some outside agenda and should not be taken seriously in the conversation at-hand.

                TL;DR: What does any of this have to do with your point about Israel and Gaza?

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  2 years ago

                  Mexicans, by default, refer to people from the United States as “Americanos.”

                  Oh, I’ve heard them refer to you by plenty of terms.

                  America have been referred to as “Americans” for over 200 years

                  By whom? Your fellow colonialists? Lol!

                  What does any of this have to do with your point about Israel and Gaza?

                  You’re the one that went on this little tangent because somebody referred to you by a term you don’t approve of, USian - you tell me?