• Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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    1 year ago

    And they had no way out. I was talking to some complete fool the other day who said that Gazans should just flee on rafts like African migrants do. As if Israel wouldn’t blow them out of the fucking water with their navy.

    Also, Egypt is not getting enough blame for not letting Gazans out through their border. They need to. That makes them a partner in this genocide even if they’re not an active partner.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, although read the ‘After 2007’ part. Egypt hasn’t exactly been helping Palestinians cross the border. The sad fact is that Palestinians are treated like shit in the rest of the Arab world and Israel is a good cover for that because they’re far, far worse. But it’s not like Jordan has ever let them live with the rest of Jordanian society or offer them citizenship despite Palestinians living in Jordan for decades. And the claim from Jordan and Egypt is “we can’t offer them citizenship because then Israel will not let them return to their homeland,” which is, frankly a bullshit excuse because it doesn’t let Palestinians decide for themselves what they want.

        I am not trying in any way to lessen Israel’s part in this. They are the ones committing genocide. There is no question about that. But Israel’s neighbors don’t actually care, which is why they’re not doing anything about it.

      • DreamerofDays@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        That link suggests differently:

        Following Israel’s unilateral disengagement from the Gaza-strip in 2005, the Philadelphi Accord with Egypt was concluded, which authorized Egypt to deploy 750 border guards along the route to patrol the border on Egypt’s side. The Palestinian side of the border was controlled by the Palestinian Authority, until the 2007 takeover by Hamas.[3] The joint authority for the Rafah Border Crossing was transferred to the Palestinian Authority and Egypt for restricted passage by Palestinian ID card holders, and by others by exception.

      • mwguy@infosec.pub
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        1 year ago

        The Palestinian side of the border was controlled by the Palestinian Authority, until the 2007 takeover by Hamas.

        Wow, I wonder why Egypt, a country that suffered from the evils of the Muslim Brotherhood severely, would be unaccepting of a border controlled by an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood? Must be the Jews fault.

    • IronCorgi@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I get it though. Israel has in the past expelled Palestinians and not allowed them to return leaving them stateless wherever they took shelter. Egypt doesn’t want a million people to suddenly become their problem permanently.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        1 year ago

        They already are their problem permanently.: “Estimates of the size of the Palestinian population in Egypt range from 50,245 to 110,000.” The ‘not allowed to return’ thing is a bullshit excuse to deny them citizenship because it doesn’t give them the opportunity if they want it, keeping them as a second class, and Egypt knows it. What about the Palestinians that don’t want to return? The ones who want to live in Egypt? Egypt says fuck them.

    • mwguy@infosec.pub
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      1 year ago

      Also, Egypt is not getting enough blame for not letting Gazans out through their border.

      Oh how short memories we have. The Muslim Brotherhood did some absolute fucked up shit in Egypt. There’s a reason them and their offshoots (like Hamas) are banned there.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        1 year ago

        Gazans are not all Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe Egypt should treat them like they’re all criminals?

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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            1 year ago

            Again- Gazans are not all Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe Egypt should treat them like they’re all criminals?

            Do you remember 9/11? Should all Muslims in the U.S. be treated live second-class in perpetuity because if it?

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
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              1 year ago

              So maybe Egypt should treat them like they’re all criminals?

              You don’t remember what happened do you? Can you name one atrocity that the brotherhood did in Egypt?

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                1 year ago

                Irrelevant. Are all Palestinians in the Muslim Brotherhood? Unless they all are, it doesn’t matter what the Muslim Brotherhood did.

                It seems like you’re doing a racist “you can’t trust a Palestinian” thing to me.

    • BabyWah@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I don’t agree with the Egypt part. It’s a sovereign country and has the right to refuse to give up an entire peninsula of their land.

      Israel is betting on them to open the doors so they can just take Gazan land like they want to. It’s even pressuring Europe for weeks now to pressure Egypt. So there is a plan there and it won’t be in favour of Gazans.

      It’s also a country that has its own shit going on. As soon as they open the border, the world will look away as if they’ve solved something and the Gazans will never have the right to return to their country because there will be no more Gaza.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        1 year ago

        No one is asking Egypt to give up land and there are already thousands of Palestinians in Egypt who have been there for decades and Egypt (and Jordan) continue to make the ‘we can’t give them citizenship because then they’ll be unable to return’ bullshit in order to keep them second-class and make them work the most menial jobs. Palestinians are treated like shit in those countries. Stop excusing their behavior as some sort of humane response.

        • BabyWah@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Maybe. But I’m a second generation living in Europe and my third and fourth generation cousins are still treated like a ‘foreigner’ so that’s where my stance comes from.

          But you make a good point. No one should be treated like shit.

    • bamboo@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Egypt knows any Palestinian refugee that leaves Palestine will never be allowed to return home. Letting Gazans into Sinai would be to permanently accepting them, and also likely result in Israel invading Egypt to create a “safe zone”, possibly dragging Egypt into the war. The Gazans would be politically destabilizing, due to the strain that admitted potentially over a million refugees with nothing would cause on the already struggling domestic economy.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        1 year ago

        What if the Palestinian refugee doesn’t want to return home? Why isn’t that up to them? Because Egypt doesn’t want them. They would be fine if they all left right now.

        • bamboo@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Well the Palestinians aren’t being given a choice regardless, so your hypothetical is a bit moot.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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            1 year ago

            How is them not being allowed citizenship if they want it moot? Egypt and Jordan could offer it to them any time they wanted. But they’re using this as an excuse to keep them as second-class and keep them working the shit jobs no one else in those countries want to do. All because “they might get to return someday.” It’s a bullshit excuse to treat them like shit.