• Arete@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    arrow-down
    28
    ·
    10 months ago

    Is this 22,600 number accurate? It’s more precise than I would expect. I’ve also seen estimates of 8000 hamas militants killed, which is presumably included here as the Gaza authorities have never previously made a distinction. That suggests about 2 civilian deaths per soldier killed which is honestly a lot less than I would expect given all the “genocide” rhetoric.

    I think Afghanistan ended up being about 1 civilian per 2 soldiers? That’s 4x lower, but was largely fought in low population density deserts. Is there even a modern equivalent to draw a comparison with to gauge what a “normal” civilian casualty rate is for urban warfare?

      • Arete@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        10 months ago

        How so? I obviously assume the numbers on both sides are exaggerated, which is why I rounded everything in favor of there being more civilian deaths. How many hamas fighters do you think have been killed?

        • polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          10 months ago

          The Lancet is generally regarded as one of the most reputable and trustworthy medical journals. An assessment of the figures from the Gaza Ministry of Health published in the Lancet found that there was no evidence of inflated mortality statistics, and even went beyond that to say that it is considerably more likely that the Gaza Ministry of Health is under reporting the casualties providing the most conservative figures.

          If MoH mortality figures were substantially inflated, the MoH mortality rates would be expected to be higher than the UNRWA mortality rates. Instead, the MoH mortality rates are lower than the rates reported for UNRWA staff (5·3 deaths per 1000 vs 7·8 deaths per 1000, as of Nov 10, 2023). Hypothetically, if MoH mortality data were inflated from, for example, an underlying value of 2–4 deaths per 1000, it would imply that UNRWA staff mortality risk is 2·0–3·9 times higher than that of the public. This scenario is unlikely as many UNRWA staff deaths occurred at home or in areas with high civilian populations, such as in schools or shelters.

          Mortality reporting is difficult to conduct in ongoing conflicts. Initial news reports might be imprecise, and subsequent verified reports might undercount deaths that are not recorded by hospitals or morgues, such as persons buried under rubble (appendix pp 1–2). However, difficulties obtaining accurate mortality figures should not be interpreted as intentionally misreported data.

          Although valid mortality counts are important, the situation in Gaza is severe, with high levels of civilian harm and extremely restricted access to aid. Efforts to dispute mortality reporting should not distract from the humanitarian imperative to save civilian lives by ensuring appropriate medical supplies, food, water, and fuel are provided immediately.

          Here’s a link to the source of this quote.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          Seeing as the death rate pretty much reflects the population rate, it’s clear that the bombing is indiscriminate. 1/3 are women. 1/3 are children. 1/3 are men.

          The IDF seems to adopt the Obama Doctrine: Under Obama, Men Killed by Drones Are Presumed to Be Terrorists

          Let’s not forget Julian Assange is prosecuted for exposing the American military’s indiscriminate murdering and labeling everyone they kill as terrorists. NSFL: https://youtu.be/HfvFpT-iypw?si=tnK_NxtddWHDmc37&t=280 (starts at 4:30)

    • BunEnjoyer@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      20
      ·
      10 months ago

      Not only Urban warfare but a terrorist regime that is actively using its own civilians as human shields.

        • AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          10 months ago

          Well that proves Israel hates israelis. That settles it. They killed several of their own.

          Wars never have friendly fire or civilian casualties. Hamas never pretends to surrender just to suicide bomb.

          Israel is totes doing the genocide I guess

        • BunEnjoyer@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          15
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          Yes that’s right they were, unsure what that has to do with the above.

          Military friendly fire incidents are also incredibly high in most conflicts.

          • Doorbook@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            10 months ago

            Anthony Hurndall shared information about his son’s shooting, showcasing how Israeli military tactics are responsible for killing innocent people.

            Tom Hurndall was a photography student, International Solidarity Movement volunteer and an activist against the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories.

            In April 2003, the 22-year-old was shot by IDF sniper Taysir Hayb while assisting Palestinian children caught in the crossfire in Gaza. He was left in a coma and died nine months later.

            An investigation revealed that Soroka Hospital’s medical staff removed bullet fragments from Tom’s brain. Initially, the hospital claimed that his injuries were caused by a baseball bat. When that was refuted, the Israeli government claimed he was carrying a weapon and was a gunman.

            Hayb was later sentenced to eight years in prison for manslaughter after it was revealed that he thought he was following standard military procedure.

            “The investigation further revealed that, as standard practice, the IDF routinely falsely misrepresent civilians and children as militants, or as armed, and fabricate accounts of events as a pretext for their killing,” Hurndall, who is director of the Center for Justice, told The Times.

            • BunEnjoyer@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              13
              ·
              edit-2
              10 months ago

              Again unsure what this has to do with Hamas using civilians as human shields.

              This is really just a propaganda outlet for the muslim brotherhood eh?

              This is the same level of whataboutism that chinese nationalism when you point out that maybe some people died during the great leap forward.

              Can you just communicate in words what you’re trying to say? I can pull up stories making either side look worse too.

              • Doorbook@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                10 months ago

                As talks to extend the truce between Israel and Hamas continued on Wednesday before a looming deadline, the Israeli army raided the Jenin refugee camp, causing widespread destruction and killing four Palestinians, including two children.

                Adam Samer al-Ghoul, 8, was shot in the head and Basil Suleiman Abu al-Wafa, 15, died after he was shot in the chest.