The issuing of preliminary orders means that they have deemed the risk of genocide in Gaza at the hands of the Israeli government to be plausible. The judges voted overwhelming in agreement with that ruling. One judge voted for the provisional measures based solely on the question of intent and the quotes by Israeli leaders.
That’s true, plausible. That’s taking the allegations as true, and resolving all reasonable doubt in the applicant’s favor, and the allegations in the complaints in my view, while stating a plausible case for genocide, are a bunch of bullshit, half truths, and exaggerations.
Nobody disputes that 25,000 people have been horribly killed. The dispute is why. Israel is going to on in evidence that virtually everyone was warned multiple times to leave, and it’s going to put on evidence that for virtual every bombing there was a legit military target.
Let’s see if Hamas complies with the order, and let’s the hostages go. What do you think they will do?
Well, Hamas is not a state, nor is it a signatory to the genocide charter, so this ruling really doesn’t apply to them. However, you’re right, they’ll probably continue holding the hostages as negotiating chips. To be clear, I condemn Hamas and the Israeli government. However, the 25,000 people killed weren’t all Hamas. Israel doesn’t even claim they were mostly Hamas. And of course Israel will provide evidence in an attempt to defend themselves, otherwise they wouldn’t have bothered showing up.
You might be interested to know that Israel’s national security ministry, Itamar Ben-Gvir, tweeted “Hague Schmague” after the ICJ ruling. Does that sound like the sentiment of someone who intends to comply?
Please explain to me, without relying on evidence from Israel, the claims in South Africa’s complaints are bullshit. You have made a similar statement before but I don’t know what you think is bullshit, half-truths, or exaggerations. They use facts from independent sources or from Israel themselves when they can. They use quotes to show intent (it is rare to see this much evidence of intent). They showed video of soldiers echoing the genocidal rhetoric of the president and the prime minister. So which parts did they misrepresent?
Just read South Africa’s complaint. The most sensational claims are attributed to “reports” and fail to to include enough detail to fact to check the claims.
It’s a house of cards built on exaggerations and half truths. It also includes none of Israel’s side of the story, which includes two undeniable truths: they are warning people before air strikes and they are striking legit targets.
Literally three quarters of South Africa’s complaint is going to be simply ignored because Israel is going to be able to show a valid military target.
So you’re just accepting what Israel says at face value. I disagree that they can show a “valid military target”. They claim that they can show it, but that doesn’t mean we have to just accept their claim. Or do you buy the whole “most moral army” propaganda. CNN filmed caught Israeli’s shooting Palestinians walking under a white flag. Israel killed three of its own hostages who were walking shirtless, unarmed, with a makeshift white flag, and asking for help in Hebrew. Show the legitimate military targets that justify the destruction of their entire health system. There are no hospitals left in Gaza.
You need to look at some noncorporate news sources. Ask yourself if you’re just repeating the words of Mark Regev or Eylon Levy, they people they pay to push propaganda. Do you honestly believe that Israel has done nothing wrong? Can do no wrong? They’re dropping 2,000 lb bombs. There is evidence of them using white phosphorus as a weapon. I’m sure you’ll just parrot their propaganda without offering any evidence to back it up.
You’re stringing a bunch of unrelated things together into a web of conspiratorial nonsense and calling it evidence.
The tunnels are well documented. They spread throughout virtually all of Gaza City and there are huge tunnel networks in Gaza’s other two cities as well.
Are the tunnels just corporate media propaganda?
They’ve done plenty of wrong, and Israel has also prosecuted and continues to prosecute its own people for incitement to genocide and for war crimes, as noted in the ICJ opinion.
My opinions are my own and are open to being proven wrong. I’m calling it as I see it.
Show me where Israel has bombed civilians with no warning; the date and location, then we can look up what warnings the IDF gave and their stated justification.
Neither you or I can go there and inspect to see if there really is tunnels under the buildings, or see if the people wearing civilian clothing are actually members of Hamas.
On one side you have a group who has never admitted the death of a Hamas soldier, who says every casualty is a civilian casualty and complains about indiscriminate targeting of civilians while at the same time actually indiscriminately targeting civilians. And on the other, the army of a democratic nation that is currently right now prosecuting dozens of its own citizens for exactly the things people are accusing it of doing nothing to prevent. One side is obviously lying.
You can hear the recordings of the warnings and see videos of them and press accounts for yourself, and you can have faith in the coalition of democratic nations who are supporting Israel over the coalition of authoritarian theocratic shitholes that are state sponsors of terrorism which supports Israel. For a full list see paragraph 12 of South Africa’s complaint.
You believe North Korea and Iran, but not Canada and Japan. That should raise alarm bells in your mind that maybe you got tricked. It’s okay. I’ve been tricked too. It happens. Denial doesn’t help you in any way, though.
If you acknowledge that you can’t go there yourself to confirm what’s happening, then you’re acknowledging that you’re accepting the word of someone else. The Israeli government, run by the Likud party and Netanyahu, is a far right government. Do you expect them to just admit that genocide is their plan so that the world will rush in to try to stop them? Leaders in the Likud party have made it clear that under their control, there will be no two state solution. That Palestinians cannot be allowed the right of self determination. Ignore all of the quotes in the South African complaint, look at Netanyahu’s recent “from the river to the sea” comments or Tzippi Hotovely’s “absolutely not” when asked about the possibility of two states. That mindset is not one that will make Israelies less safe as is it is one that is based in the oppression of Palestinians. As such, Palestinians will continue to rise up against Israel as long as there are Palestinians left to rise up. Israel is now trying to get other countries to accept the Gazan population, because ethnic cleansing is a more palatable war crime. However, it should be noted that Germany tried something similar with its Jewish population, before deciding that if no one would take them, they would need to be removed somehow.
Regardless of whether or not you think this is a genocide, the only route to safety in the region is a ceasefire and a negotiation with the representatives of the Palestinians, which at this time is Hamas. Israel’s campaign has only raised support for Hamas in the region, because Israel is acting as an oppressor and Hamas are the only ones standing up to them.
If what Israel is doing is good, then why don’t Gazan children have enough food? Or enough medicine? Do you think it is Hamas that are not allowing enough supply trucks through Israeli controlled border crossings? Why did Israel allow babies in incubators to die? Why did they kill people walking under white flags? Why are so many reporters being killed? Oh, well, you probably don’t care about them since the only reports that matter are the ones that fit your narrative and anything Israel says.
Wake up buddy. “Western world can do no wrong” is a fucking dream created by colonizers. Which makes it a great fit for Israel, but not so much for reality. Or do you believe that there is something intrinsic in Palestinian DNA that makes them more susceptible to being killed by bombs?
The issuing of preliminary orders means that they have deemed the risk of genocide in Gaza at the hands of the Israeli government to be plausible. The judges voted overwhelming in agreement with that ruling. One judge voted for the provisional measures based solely on the question of intent and the quotes by Israeli leaders.
*Edit: typo
That’s true, plausible. That’s taking the allegations as true, and resolving all reasonable doubt in the applicant’s favor, and the allegations in the complaints in my view, while stating a plausible case for genocide, are a bunch of bullshit, half truths, and exaggerations.
Nobody disputes that 25,000 people have been horribly killed. The dispute is why. Israel is going to on in evidence that virtually everyone was warned multiple times to leave, and it’s going to put on evidence that for virtual every bombing there was a legit military target.
Let’s see if Hamas complies with the order, and let’s the hostages go. What do you think they will do?
Well, Hamas is not a state, nor is it a signatory to the genocide charter, so this ruling really doesn’t apply to them. However, you’re right, they’ll probably continue holding the hostages as negotiating chips. To be clear, I condemn Hamas and the Israeli government. However, the 25,000 people killed weren’t all Hamas. Israel doesn’t even claim they were mostly Hamas. And of course Israel will provide evidence in an attempt to defend themselves, otherwise they wouldn’t have bothered showing up.
You might be interested to know that Israel’s national security ministry, Itamar Ben-Gvir, tweeted “Hague Schmague” after the ICJ ruling. Does that sound like the sentiment of someone who intends to comply?
Please explain to me, without relying on evidence from Israel, the claims in South Africa’s complaints are bullshit. You have made a similar statement before but I don’t know what you think is bullshit, half-truths, or exaggerations. They use facts from independent sources or from Israel themselves when they can. They use quotes to show intent (it is rare to see this much evidence of intent). They showed video of soldiers echoing the genocidal rhetoric of the president and the prime minister. So which parts did they misrepresent?
They are already in compliance.
Just read South Africa’s complaint. The most sensational claims are attributed to “reports” and fail to to include enough detail to fact to check the claims.
It’s a house of cards built on exaggerations and half truths. It also includes none of Israel’s side of the story, which includes two undeniable truths: they are warning people before air strikes and they are striking legit targets.
Literally three quarters of South Africa’s complaint is going to be simply ignored because Israel is going to be able to show a valid military target.
So you’re just accepting what Israel says at face value. I disagree that they can show a “valid military target”. They claim that they can show it, but that doesn’t mean we have to just accept their claim. Or do you buy the whole “most moral army” propaganda. CNN filmed caught Israeli’s shooting Palestinians walking under a white flag. Israel killed three of its own hostages who were walking shirtless, unarmed, with a makeshift white flag, and asking for help in Hebrew. Show the legitimate military targets that justify the destruction of their entire health system. There are no hospitals left in Gaza.
You need to look at some noncorporate news sources. Ask yourself if you’re just repeating the words of Mark Regev or Eylon Levy, they people they pay to push propaganda. Do you honestly believe that Israel has done nothing wrong? Can do no wrong? They’re dropping 2,000 lb bombs. There is evidence of them using white phosphorus as a weapon. I’m sure you’ll just parrot their propaganda without offering any evidence to back it up.
You’re stringing a bunch of unrelated things together into a web of conspiratorial nonsense and calling it evidence.
The tunnels are well documented. They spread throughout virtually all of Gaza City and there are huge tunnel networks in Gaza’s other two cities as well.
Are the tunnels just corporate media propaganda?
They’ve done plenty of wrong, and Israel has also prosecuted and continues to prosecute its own people for incitement to genocide and for war crimes, as noted in the ICJ opinion.
Whatever, sis. Keep peddling that Israeli propaganda. Maybe some day they’ll pay you for it.
My opinions are my own and are open to being proven wrong. I’m calling it as I see it.
Show me where Israel has bombed civilians with no warning; the date and location, then we can look up what warnings the IDF gave and their stated justification.
Neither you or I can go there and inspect to see if there really is tunnels under the buildings, or see if the people wearing civilian clothing are actually members of Hamas.
On one side you have a group who has never admitted the death of a Hamas soldier, who says every casualty is a civilian casualty and complains about indiscriminate targeting of civilians while at the same time actually indiscriminately targeting civilians. And on the other, the army of a democratic nation that is currently right now prosecuting dozens of its own citizens for exactly the things people are accusing it of doing nothing to prevent. One side is obviously lying.
You can hear the recordings of the warnings and see videos of them and press accounts for yourself, and you can have faith in the coalition of democratic nations who are supporting Israel over the coalition of authoritarian theocratic shitholes that are state sponsors of terrorism which supports Israel. For a full list see paragraph 12 of South Africa’s complaint.
You believe North Korea and Iran, but not Canada and Japan. That should raise alarm bells in your mind that maybe you got tricked. It’s okay. I’ve been tricked too. It happens. Denial doesn’t help you in any way, though.
If you acknowledge that you can’t go there yourself to confirm what’s happening, then you’re acknowledging that you’re accepting the word of someone else. The Israeli government, run by the Likud party and Netanyahu, is a far right government. Do you expect them to just admit that genocide is their plan so that the world will rush in to try to stop them? Leaders in the Likud party have made it clear that under their control, there will be no two state solution. That Palestinians cannot be allowed the right of self determination. Ignore all of the quotes in the South African complaint, look at Netanyahu’s recent “from the river to the sea” comments or Tzippi Hotovely’s “absolutely not” when asked about the possibility of two states. That mindset is not one that will make Israelies less safe as is it is one that is based in the oppression of Palestinians. As such, Palestinians will continue to rise up against Israel as long as there are Palestinians left to rise up. Israel is now trying to get other countries to accept the Gazan population, because ethnic cleansing is a more palatable war crime. However, it should be noted that Germany tried something similar with its Jewish population, before deciding that if no one would take them, they would need to be removed somehow.
Regardless of whether or not you think this is a genocide, the only route to safety in the region is a ceasefire and a negotiation with the representatives of the Palestinians, which at this time is Hamas. Israel’s campaign has only raised support for Hamas in the region, because Israel is acting as an oppressor and Hamas are the only ones standing up to them.
If what Israel is doing is good, then why don’t Gazan children have enough food? Or enough medicine? Do you think it is Hamas that are not allowing enough supply trucks through Israeli controlled border crossings? Why did Israel allow babies in incubators to die? Why did they kill people walking under white flags? Why are so many reporters being killed? Oh, well, you probably don’t care about them since the only reports that matter are the ones that fit your narrative and anything Israel says.
Wake up buddy. “Western world can do no wrong” is a fucking dream created by colonizers. Which makes it a great fit for Israel, but not so much for reality. Or do you believe that there is something intrinsic in Palestinian DNA that makes them more susceptible to being killed by bombs?
How about this PBS news hour report: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/as-israels-bombing-hits-declared-safe-zones-palestinians-trapped-in-gaza-find-danger-everywhere] from Oct 19 about them bombing safe zones. And an Al Jazeera report from December: https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/12/9/photos-israel-bombs-gaza-areas-it-called-safe-zones-for-palestinians .
Not to mention confusing the system was confusing. Look at the evacuation map. It is not easy to read as mentioned in this NPR article: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217548417/israel-hamas-war-gaza-evacuation-map-messages .