your reply shows that you are doing your best to avoid the issue. Young impressionable people change their mind all the time. Adults do too. Whether it’s drugs or surgery you are doing irreversible harm to your body. Many people who went through this transition process have come out and publicly told how altering their body physically did nothing to aleve their mental state of thinking they were not the gender that they were born as. At Ironically at that point the very doctors and therapists that encouraged their transition simply drop them saying “there is nothing I can do for you.” In the near future there will be many lawsuits. And just as is happening in Europe the practice will be stopped.
I actually kind of agree with you when you say that young impressionable people should be protected from making life-altering decisions about their bodies in case they end up changing their minds. But the reality is that de-transition rates sits around 1%, and the most cited reasons for de-transitioning seems to be pressure from parents, harassment and discrimination. It seems like when it comes to identifying as trans, people actually seem to be pretty sure of themselves. If the de-transitioning rate all of sudden started SKYROCKETING then we should absolutely be re-thinking things. But as of now, that just isn’t the case.
Edit: the de-transition rate is magnitudes lower than things like knee surgery and heart surgery. Surgeries people generally feel very positively about in terms of helping people. Why can a child get a heart surgery - something that isn’t remotely controversial - to save their life, but not a child getting gender affirmative care to keep them suffering and from killing themselves?
Finally we are starting to agree. If these medical treatments actually work who would be against them. I simply believe that since the practice of medicine began we treated this physiologically. And then like magic drugs (big pharma loves it) and surgeries (hospitals love it) are going to cure a problem. We will continue to disagree and remember this stuff is so new there are zero outcome studies. But I will stand by my prediction that you will see an avalanche of lawsuits in the near future
Glad that we are in agreement and can talk about this in a civil manner! I would just like to clear up a few things. A lot of people seem to think that when a child transitions they are immediately taken to a hospital where they’re pumped full of drugs and then snip snip.
Stage one: the transition starts as a social one by changing their name, for instance. There’s nothing permanent about changing your name.
Stage two: the next stage is puberty blockers. The criteria for a minor to get puberty blockers prescribed to them are:
-They have to show a long-lasting and intense pattern of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria
-Have gender dysphoria that began or worsened at the start of puberty
-Any psychological, medical or social problems that could interfere with treatment needs to be addressed.
-Have entered the early stage of puberty
-Be provided informed consent
Puberty blockers temporarily stop puberty from setting in. By taking puberty blockers it keeps the person from undergoing changes that might lead to them undertaking surgeries later in life. And once you stop taking puberty blockers, the puberty kicks in. Nothing permanent about this stage either.
Stage three: Next next is hormone treatment (or HRT). Hormone treatments for transwomen, for example, suppress things like testosterone production and decrease muscle mass/strength. Almost all effects of HRT are reversible, except breast development in transwomen. HRT can cause infertility, but not always, which is why a lot of transwomen first put their sperm in spermbanks, in case they ever want to have children. HRT is only legal for minors if they get parental consent, meet several criteria after having been diagnosed with gender dysphoria for at least 6 months.
Stage four: Surgery. Mastectomies for transmen and penectomies for transwomen. Not legal without parental consent. Even when a minor has parental support for their transition, transition-related surgeries are not typically performed prior to the age of 18. While there are some reports of transgender teens between the ages of 16 and 18 receiving transition-related surgical care, these cases are exceedingly rare and based on the specific medical needs of the teen. Most trans people, counting adults, don’t ever go through gender affirming surgeries, in fact. Only about 30%, and then the satisfaction rate sits at around 99.7% currently.
You mentioned that there are zero outcome studies, but gender affirming surgeries have been a thing for over sixty years! There have been plenty of studies. It’s just the last few years that people have been starting to realize trans people exist, it seems. They’ve actually been around in different cultures around the world for thousands of years.
Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for the chat. I hope we both can agree that since treatments seem to work and regret rates are low, we can with our current scientific understanding of the matter, along with decades worth of study, that there’s no point in being against them. I don’t think you’re a bad person for being critical and asking questions. I just think you’re misinformed. Have a nice day!
I enjoyed reading your thorough description. I still believe rather than a real help for the patient it is about a new money trail for Big Pharma and Hospitals. Soon enough we will see how it works out.
If big pharma wanted more money, why would they try to get it from such a small portion of the population? Wouldn’t they make even more money by coming up with a new drug for insomnia, depression, anxiety, cholesterol, diabetes, hair loss, erections, heart disease, irritable bowels, or any other potential problem that tens or hundreds of millions of people need?
You’re saying this is a way to make more money, but it’s only from a few thousand people at any given time, and is only effective and helpful for a very short timespan, comparatively. I mean, look how much money is made from OTC supplements that don’t require years of investment and research before FDA review. They could make a new cough medicine combination and sell billions of dollars worth annually. And you think that big pharma is wasting that opportunity to make a couple of million per year on puberty blockers for kids. It just doesn’t make common sense.
If you care about defenseless kids why are you wasting time on this non issue when there are priests out there molesting children for real every day? There are real organizations out there protecting real abusers
Just another deflection of the issue on your part. No one should be in favor of the molestation of kids regardless of who is doing it. Though you may want to check this out since their are some on the left who are normalizing pedophilia. Sad but not surprising.
your reply shows that you are doing your best to avoid the issue. Young impressionable people change their mind all the time. Adults do too. Whether it’s drugs or surgery you are doing irreversible harm to your body. Many people who went through this transition process have come out and publicly told how altering their body physically did nothing to aleve their mental state of thinking they were not the gender that they were born as. At Ironically at that point the very doctors and therapists that encouraged their transition simply drop them saying “there is nothing I can do for you.” In the near future there will be many lawsuits. And just as is happening in Europe the practice will be stopped.
I actually kind of agree with you when you say that young impressionable people should be protected from making life-altering decisions about their bodies in case they end up changing their minds. But the reality is that de-transition rates sits around 1%, and the most cited reasons for de-transitioning seems to be pressure from parents, harassment and discrimination. It seems like when it comes to identifying as trans, people actually seem to be pretty sure of themselves. If the de-transitioning rate all of sudden started SKYROCKETING then we should absolutely be re-thinking things. But as of now, that just isn’t the case.
Edit: the de-transition rate is magnitudes lower than things like knee surgery and heart surgery. Surgeries people generally feel very positively about in terms of helping people. Why can a child get a heart surgery - something that isn’t remotely controversial - to save their life, but not a child getting gender affirmative care to keep them suffering and from killing themselves?
Finally we are starting to agree. If these medical treatments actually work who would be against them. I simply believe that since the practice of medicine began we treated this physiologically. And then like magic drugs (big pharma loves it) and surgeries (hospitals love it) are going to cure a problem. We will continue to disagree and remember this stuff is so new there are zero outcome studies. But I will stand by my prediction that you will see an avalanche of lawsuits in the near future
Glad that we are in agreement and can talk about this in a civil manner! I would just like to clear up a few things. A lot of people seem to think that when a child transitions they are immediately taken to a hospital where they’re pumped full of drugs and then snip snip.
Stage one: the transition starts as a social one by changing their name, for instance. There’s nothing permanent about changing your name.
Stage two: the next stage is puberty blockers. The criteria for a minor to get puberty blockers prescribed to them are:
Puberty blockers temporarily stop puberty from setting in. By taking puberty blockers it keeps the person from undergoing changes that might lead to them undertaking surgeries later in life. And once you stop taking puberty blockers, the puberty kicks in. Nothing permanent about this stage either.
Stage three: Next next is hormone treatment (or HRT). Hormone treatments for transwomen, for example, suppress things like testosterone production and decrease muscle mass/strength. Almost all effects of HRT are reversible, except breast development in transwomen. HRT can cause infertility, but not always, which is why a lot of transwomen first put their sperm in spermbanks, in case they ever want to have children. HRT is only legal for minors if they get parental consent, meet several criteria after having been diagnosed with gender dysphoria for at least 6 months.
Stage four: Surgery. Mastectomies for transmen and penectomies for transwomen. Not legal without parental consent. Even when a minor has parental support for their transition, transition-related surgeries are not typically performed prior to the age of 18. While there are some reports of transgender teens between the ages of 16 and 18 receiving transition-related surgical care, these cases are exceedingly rare and based on the specific medical needs of the teen. Most trans people, counting adults, don’t ever go through gender affirming surgeries, in fact. Only about 30%, and then the satisfaction rate sits at around 99.7% currently.
You mentioned that there are zero outcome studies, but gender affirming surgeries have been a thing for over sixty years! There have been plenty of studies. It’s just the last few years that people have been starting to realize trans people exist, it seems. They’ve actually been around in different cultures around the world for thousands of years.
Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks for the chat. I hope we both can agree that since treatments seem to work and regret rates are low, we can with our current scientific understanding of the matter, along with decades worth of study, that there’s no point in being against them. I don’t think you’re a bad person for being critical and asking questions. I just think you’re misinformed. Have a nice day!
I enjoyed reading your thorough description. I still believe rather than a real help for the patient it is about a new money trail for Big Pharma and Hospitals. Soon enough we will see how it works out.
If big pharma wanted more money, why would they try to get it from such a small portion of the population? Wouldn’t they make even more money by coming up with a new drug for insomnia, depression, anxiety, cholesterol, diabetes, hair loss, erections, heart disease, irritable bowels, or any other potential problem that tens or hundreds of millions of people need?
You’re saying this is a way to make more money, but it’s only from a few thousand people at any given time, and is only effective and helpful for a very short timespan, comparatively. I mean, look how much money is made from OTC supplements that don’t require years of investment and research before FDA review. They could make a new cough medicine combination and sell billions of dollars worth annually. And you think that big pharma is wasting that opportunity to make a couple of million per year on puberty blockers for kids. It just doesn’t make common sense.
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I don’t particular care what adults do to each other. But I do care about defenseless kids. But I guess that’s some kind of evil obsession.
If you care about defenseless kids why are you wasting time on this non issue when there are priests out there molesting children for real every day? There are real organizations out there protecting real abusers
Just another deflection of the issue on your part. No one should be in favor of the molestation of kids regardless of who is doing it. Though you may want to check this out since their are some on the left who are normalizing pedophilia. Sad but not surprising.
Removed by mod
Yeah, that’s not how any of this works at all. Your ignorance isn’t evidence of anything.