More video and eyewitness info on Al Jazeera so far

Also reported on Common Dreams and Middle East Eye.

I haven’t found any reports of any independent investigations yet, hopefully they are underway

  • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    TL:DR: Israel isn’t defending itself by committing a genocide against a population they’ve subjugated.

    There are a series of issues with this…

    • Genocide isn’t an act of defence - it’s an attempt to completely exterminate a group of people, and is the greatest act of aggression a group could possibly commit.

    • The response we’re seeing is in no way proportionate, and causing a completely unacceptable level of civilian casualties (10k+ children alone in response to 1,200 total killed according to Israeli counts).

    • Israel have killed more Palestinians than the total number of Hamas members in existence with zero indication of progress, and no sign of stopping.

    • Israel have maintained Palestine in conditions described by the UN as an open air concentration camp, and have placed severe apartheid restrictions on Palestinians for years.

    • Israel have killed orders of magnitude more Palestinians than Hamas have killed Israelis.

    • Israel funded the rise of Hamas (who were no less violent then) over the secular moderates - as confirmed by both IDF leadership at the time she Arafat. I see no reason for them to do this other than to manufacture pretext for the genocide while maintaining US support.

    • Palestinians seem to have a lot more to “defend themselves” against - between the numbers killed and displaced and the very restrictive living conditions they’re subjected to.

    • Israeli leadership have said pretty plainly and repeatedly that they intend to exterminate Palestinians - if all Palestinians were to lay down arms and submit to the apartheid conditions, movement restrictions, and conditions we’ve seen over the past decade, the well funded nuclear power with modern military simply won’t stop.

    What makes Israel’s actions self-defence while Hamas’s lesser actions are not?

      • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I’m sure you’d call Hamas’s actions a genocide, but based on what definition or metric?

        No differences between Israel and the Nazis?

        No difference between Israel’s self-defence and Hamas’s attacks?

          • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Your inability to point to a meaningful distinction between those you’re supporting and literal Nazis or provide a consistent definition of genocide (because you can’t manufacture one that describes Hamas without admitting Israel is committing one) says far more than Godwin’s law ever will.

            • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Your inability to form any argument besides a comparison to Nazis says far more about your reasons for advocating for genocide of Israelis.

              • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Still waiting on that definition of genocide or a meaningful distinction from the Nazis.

                Meanwhile, I don’t need to make an argument - I’ll just let the Israeli leadership do that for me…

                Prime Minister Netanyahu 

                They (Israel/IDF) are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world,”

                and 

                You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.

                and

                I don’t call them human animals because that would be insulting to animals

                “Defence” minister Galant

                We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly

                Kallner…

                Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!

                Atbaryan… 

                erasing all of Gaza from the face of the Earth. Gaza needs to be wiped out.

                Halevi…

                goals for this victory. One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel. After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom.”