Look, the people over at Wayland made a solid protocol, sure. But for all the time and effort they’ve put into getting it to the state it’s in today, it’s going to take a long while for all the apps, DEs, and TWMs to be ready. It took so long for the Linux desktop to get to the state it is on X11, which, for all it’s flaws, seems to be easier to develop for than Wayland.
Wacom Drivers, Nvidia Drivers, DE-Agnostic screensharing, screenshot, eyedropper tools are all in various states of not working/sort of working/working on wayland. This simply isn’t the case with X11. They all just work. That’s kind of a big win for X11 over Wayland.
It doesn’t matter how light weight and more secure your protocol is if you can’t use the tools you need to get the jobs you need done, whatever those jobs are. That is literally what computers are for at the end of the day, not to lord our superiority over others because our choice of tools are somehow better.
Yes Wayland is the future, but to say “Wayland is ready” while also saying “many of the apps for Wayland are not ready” ends up meaning that wayland is NOT ready.
Until the transition between X and Wayland is seamless (no adjusting environment variables), saying we should all just move to Wayland cuz ”is the future" are engaging in the same FOMO tactics that crytpo and AI bros have been doing for years. Fuck that noise.
You are not somehow better because you use Wayland. And yeah yeah, shots fired, down votes incoming. Come at me tech daddy.
You are absolutely right, I use Wayland on KDE cause two different refresh rate monitores but duude, even on amd you have some hassles. It is ok if you change some env variables, not OK for the average Joe.
I’m so confused why other people are having so much trouble, I use two computers with AMD GPUs and one with Intel and I haven’t had any problems with wayland on Gnome, Plasma, Sway, or Hyprland in the past like two years. The only environment variable I ever changed was the one to make firefox use wayland before that was the default, but that wasn’t at all required for the average user, it works fine under xwayland.
Things like, scrensharing, OBS (recently was patched and now it works), discord, spectacle (is a little unstable), screen locking (only one screen or none of them turn off) and some xwayland games/emulators won’t work. All of this in a full amd setup with KDE.
With one Novideo 1660s my KDE panel frozen every 30 minutes.
If you only use linux for development or browsing you should find no problems.
Weird, I use OBS, lock my screen, and play games all the time and have never had any problems on KDE. Maybe I’m just lucky with my GPU choices? I use an RX 570 on one computer and an RX 6650 XT on the other.
haven’t had discord or screen locking issues and I have plenty of monitors. haven’t run into any game issues either, but I do preemptively run older stuff in gamescope which tends to avoid a lot of issues
run older stuff in gamescope which tends to avoid a lot of issues
This is a great advice, I’m having issues with alt tabbing with dota, I should try gamescope as well.
Monitores
Brazilian detected
Also, I use two monitors with different refresh rates on Mint / Cinnamon / Xorg and it’s more than fine. I think you only need Wayland for variable refresh rate. But two static refresh rates seem to work just fine on X.
Brazilian detected
Damn, my camouflage didn’t work.
They are actually running in different refresh rates? The default is to cap the better monitor in the lower refresh rate. If I accept that it is fine to me as well. If I try to force different refresh rates on kwin , my games run with so much tearing, even with vsync on.
I honestly wouldn’t know. One is a 60 Hz TV and the other a 75 Hz office monitor. My son loves to play steam games on the monitor. The graphic configuration tool says the monitors are at that frequency and I can see other frequencies they could operate.
I don’t know how to check the actual refresh rate though.
But two static refresh rates seem to work just fine on X.
No but if you can’t tell they are both working at the same rate it must work well enough for you not to care.
DE-Agnostic screensharing
Weird, i feel like I should be getting more errors with how the comment section is making wayland sound, but on my mac 2019 it was honestly plug n play even for sunshine game stream (and supports waydroid which brought me over)
Wacom Drivers
Digimend works flawlessly. Also if you have a tablet you should be aware that you’re not exactly a typical user. Blender runs natively under wayland, btw,
Much of the griping you hear right now is because wayland got into a state where it does do everything the average user would ask for so the switchover is happening for real, meanwhile tons of projects have ignored the writing on the wall for a literal decade and invested zero effort so far and now are caught with their pants down.
My migration looked like this: About a year ago or so I read some wayland article, wondered for a brief second, logged out of my session, said “ah!” and selected “Plasma (wayland)” from the dropdown: NixOS installs both flavours when you tell it to give you KDE. Tried it out, found nothing wrong with it, grumbled a bit because it wasn’t the default session, found the config option to make it default, done.
Ever since then alt-tabbing from proton games is way better, mpv does a much better job at actually using VRR, the only problem I ever had with the setup is mouse cursor changing when hovering over firefox because dconf was missing and it couldn’t read the gtk theme that KDE sets to make everything look coherent. That’s literally it.
Solid. I do authentically look forward to Wayland working out of the box for as many use cases as X does right now.
Thanks for the tidbit about tablets I actually fo uee a wacom, so this is probably not what I’m looking for. Sway has a weird workaround specific to their wm, hopefully river can port that over. Otherwise there seems to be other solutions, but I have yet to install/configure them.
I use xfce, I have nvidia card, I sometimes capture a video of my screen and I regularly share my screen. Didn’t even try.
I’ll use Xorg until its deprecated or Wayland offers me some benefit other than “is new and shiny and the internet told me is cool”
I also became a bit sceptical about it with so many open source projects and basic functionality not supporting it yet after sooo many years of “Wayland is here”… so yeah, I’ll wait until someone gets xorg from my dead cold hands 😁
also I don’t get how aggressive people get about what other people have in their desktop, dude let me live my linux life alone 🤷♂️
Wayland has both screen capture and screen sharing.
We have XWaylandVideoBridge for X11 only applications.Fair enough. I used XFCE for 15 years and decided to give Hyprland a go. Still some rough edges, and some shockingly basic things are still being figured out (should multiple windows from the same process be able to set different icons, and windows being able to set–or even hint–where they want to go), but overall I’ve had basically zero issues, and I’m enjoying it enough that I made the change permanent. Screen share and streaming work fine. I wouldn’t call the overall functionality mature, but it’s perfectly workable. Unless, you know…Nvidia. I’ve heard it’s gotten a bit better lately, but I wouldn’t have switched if I hadn’t gone AMD for my new GPU.
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Wayland works with NVIDIA cards though.
When they added vrr support for wayland, I can’t play games anymore without continuous screen tearing and duplicate images. I guess they didn’t test gsync certified monitors on their own Wayland drivers. Until that and the taskbar on kde gets fixed I’ll be waiting. Kde taskbar freezes without warning on Wayland with Nvidia.
Maybe the open source drivers will soothe my woes when they’re ready.
My Desktop runs wayland on nvidia… so?!
What I don’t like about Wayland is that many things are specific to individual DEs. Like global shortcuts or taking screenshots. In my app I have two different solutions for taking screenshots in GNOME and KDE using XDG portals. It causes fragmentation.
o wow didn’t know this. such horrible design decision! So if I understood correctly ALL the apps that want to screenshot need to write independent code for each desktop environment??? I was just mostly ignoring Wayland until becoming mature, but now I actively dislike it with passion.
So, if this is true and I understand correctly, it means that if I chose to use Xfce (as I do), I’ll have to hope really hard that zoom, skype, slack, discord… decide to provide support for not only linux,… but XFCE or give up and abandon XFCE? yeah f*** Wayland, they really didn’t think about the open source community when designing their solution. I don’t wat to even think of people that use other smaller desktop managers…
I mean, screen sharing is basic functionality these days, in the interview for my current job I needed to use… I think it was teams. Is not even something you can chose, is bad enough to be exclusive linux user as it is, always wondering if in such cases something will not work.
Honestly, long live Xorg. if deprecated and I have to switch to gnome/kde or lose functionality I might as well switch to windows after 20 something years of not using it.
Screen sharing is different thing, there is no fragmentation there.
But in order to take screenshot I had to write different code:
For KDE. It also requires special line in desktop file for security reasons.
Global shortcuts are even worse. It also DE specific and users have to manually register them in DE settings. In order for your application to support this, it should export such functions via the Dbus interface. And all this incompatible with Windows (my app is cross-platform), so I had to provide in-app interface for global shortcuts too that works for Windows and X11 users.
Oh no. Oh no. Way to shoot ourselves in the foot, Wayland.
Screen sharing is fine, handled by Pipewire. OBS is adding (has added?) streaming through Pipewire too. And I’ve had no issues getting screenshots using grim, which isn’t tied to a specific compositor. Not everything is copacetic, but the things you’re talking about are mostly non-issues these days.
Great name, btw
Screen sharing is still a pain in my experience. I’m a tiling window manager guy. I used i3 for years. Switched to sway, but have issues because xdg-desktop-portal-wlr can’t do application sharing, only entire screen sharing. Well I have a ultra ultra wide screen, so people can’t see shit on normal monitors when I try to share my screen. So at work, where I regularly have video conferences, I’m constantly changing my screen resolution so that I can screen share something that looks OK to others, but 1980x1024 looks ridiculous on my end on my ultrawide.
Hyperland can share applications and even regions, which is awesome, and I tested it successfully on my home gentoo system, but it only worked on Firefox. Didn’t work for my jitsi electron app and didn’t work in qutebrowser. And hyperland isn’t easily installable on Ubuntu which is what I run for work because my work computer needs to just werk (gentoo is probably even more stable but I can’t mess with long complie upgrades at work and some corporate software is only available as .debs)
So yea my life would honestly be easier if I just stuck with i3 everywhere but I’m stubbornly trying to use Wayland because I know it’s the future but don’t kid yourselves, it is a pain in the ass
I miss Firefox remembering where its windows were when it restarts >_>
It’s such a small thing, but it’s the one I encounter most.
This debate is so fucking stupid. X. Is. Dead.
Install Wayland, file bug reports, help everyone move into the future.
X is dead
Looks like I’m quitting my job because Wayland is the future asshat. How about I just run both X and Wayland on my computer, file bug reports on what doesn’t work with Wayland, and continue to use X until they fix it or you pull your head out of your own ass? Whichever comes first.
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Touch a nerve? How about you chill the fuck out.
Lol. Last time I checked you were the one shouting into the abyss that X is dead. Did the OP’s meme get under your skin so bad you had to go on a caps lock tirade about how sick you were of hearing this argument and X is dead, etc?
If your criticism had added even one iota of thought to the conversation backing up your opinion, I would have just scrolled on by. There is a plethora of easily accessible data for you to choose from to back up your argument. You could have cherry picked ANY argument you wanted about why Wayland is the future from google and just posted that instead? That seriously would have shown more respect to the people who want to have an honest discussion on the topic.
But no, instead you took the time to basically call everyone who took the time to post here stupid rather than just, y’know, move the fuck on? So yeah, I took some time out of my day to call you out for what you are, an asshat.
Now, are you gonna chill the fuck out, take your ball, and go home? Or do you have some actually constructive criticism to contribute to the conversation? Cuz seems to me outside of throwing another tantrum, those are your only two options.
No.
Make me.
Would be a shame if your distro were to stop shipping X11…
It’s Linux. If they switch before all my use cases are working as good as or better than X, I’ll just hop to the inevitable fork.
Most people want to do things not file bug reports and wait months for them to be addressed. X gets security updates as needed and will get such for literally years. X is dead like rock not dead like disco.
Unfortunately I just want to be able to work though and Wayland keeps hanging and crashing without producing any relevant logging, despite the fact I’m working on an AMD iGPU.
In the end Wayland and X are tools, if a tool doesn’t fit the job it gets replaced. I don’t care X is dead, at least it works for me. Probably not the most popular thing to tell around here, but it’s what it is.
Bro, I do file bug reports and even fix things from time to time, Wayland is so broken for me I can’t work. Also, when bug reports are met with “it’s nvidia’s fault” and hostility towards the submitter, that further turns me off from participating.
wouldnt be so sure. My AMD 780m iGPU has all sorts of weird issues on wayland atm. drivers are hella immature atm
Most things would be solved if mainteners EVER updated their app’s electron version or stopped doing custom things with it and just let electron read $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/electron-flags.conf
For like half a second my brain thought this was a meme comparing the fictional megacorps Zorg Industries from “The Fifth Element” and the Weyland-Yutani Corporation from the “Alien” franchise.
It’s not?
I have a weird setup, which is my fault I guess, but it results in me having two keyboards with different languages. And I frequently switch between them in my workflow, so it can be super annoying to manually switch the language every time.
On X I use a combination of two tools to automatically set the language per keyboard, which works even when hotplugging.
On wayland I found no alternative so far, but if you have any ideas, please let me know.
Not a real solution, but if you were set on using Wayland you could get a qmk keyboard and change the layout in firmware
I see people having a good to great experience with NVIDIA on Wayland. I lack that ability, I can never get my PC to run well on Wayland. (using the propriety drivers) hoping the new GSP firmware and the improvements to MESA-Nouveau + NVK fixes my issues. even if their are teething pains. because of how unusable it currently just is for me. course if I had the money, the easiest fix to make Linux usable for me is to buy a AMD GPU. FYI, I have a 2070Super. It is a consistently bad experience on it, with the NVIDIA propriety drivers.
Wayland runs on Nvidia though
The situation is rapidly getting better, and I’m daily driving Fedora 38 with 3060Ti using the RPMFusion Nvidia driver and Gnome+Wayland. Everything (and I do mean everything) I’ve tried has all its basic functionality at baseline. Xwayland is a thing and it covers for not having true Wayland support in alot of cases. Not like there aren’t bugs and QOL issues, but from what I’ve seen Nvidia is engaged and working to fix them. We should probably try to critique Nvidia/Wayland based on specific issues now, instead of broad brush “Nvidia/Wayland bad” rhetoric…
