All you have to do is think about this reasonably (I know, I know). Undocumented immigrants to the US want to come here so badly that they’re willing to do it outside of the law. They know full well that if they get caught just for that, they’re in a fuckload of trouble. It is clearly in the immediate, direct, and personal best interest of an undocumented immigrant to stay well clear of law enforcement. This means - wait for it - not breaking any other laws.
Undocumented immigrants have a very strong incentive to be absolutely well-behaved.
It’s even a step further. They also don’t want anyone to break the law against them. Who would they turn to? The police will arrest them.
That’s not how it works in NYC. The city police don’t cooperate with ICE and even make an effort to protect illegal immigrants who have committed crimes from being deported. Simply talking to the cops while being an illegal immigrant isn’t going to get someone detained.
This is all beside the point because the migrants in question aren’t illegal immigrants who have entered the country secretly - the authorities have permitted them to enter and already know who they are. (The authorities are in fact spending a great deal of money on them.)
That’s how it should be though. Everybody is equal under the law, so you shouldn’t punish undocumented immigrants harder than civilians.
This is all beside the point because the migrants in question aren’t illegal immigrants who have entered the country secretly - the authorities have permitted them to enter and already know who they are. (The authorities are in fact spending a great deal of money on them.)
I don’t get it. Are you saying that’s bad?
I’m not saying anything about whether that’s bad. I’m just saying that the person I’m responding to is making an argument (illegal immigrants are less likely to commit other crimes since they want to avoid police attention which would get them deported) which is doubly inapplicable to the existence or lack thereof of a “migrant crime wave” in NYC.
A few bad apples spoil the bunch.
And I fully expect there is a higher ratio of “bad apples” among other groups, including “American citizens.”
316 people are shot in America every day. ~ 340 million people in the U.S.
Claims of 7+ million migrants have come in since 2021. Round up to their benefit and say 8/340 puts us at 2.35% of the populous. So that should mean we should be hearing about more than 7 people shot by migrants daily.That doesn’t address other forms of crime… But I surely am not hearing of 7 a day
Yep, republicans sure have destroyed quite a lot in their bad apple behavior.
No, because unlike cops there’s no requirement to associate or work with a bad apple. You don’t have to defend them or even tolerate them. You can just walk away. So while they’re in the same category, they are not in the same barrel.
I’m more afraid of getting shot by a white caucasian male nazi than any of any migrant having no legal papers.
I’ve had this conversation with a relative. Just look at how high crime is! Well, actually it’s rather low lately… well, it’s the migrants they are causing the problem! Sure, sure… and this is your number one concern for the future of the country over healthcare, education, and protecting our democratic process?
The rage bait content has a strong distorting effect on perception.
Hyperreality.
In the 1960s postmodernists theorised that in a sufficiently technologically advanced society, it becomes impossible to tell reality from the simulation of reality - the hyperreal you see on tv, social media, etc.
The sad fact is that for politicians reality is less real than the hyperreal. If crimes goes down in the real world it’s not necessarily that relevant, because voters will only vote accordingly if the simulated/mediatised version of reality shows crime as having gone down. The hyperreal has more real consequences and becomes part of public perception and even history. Reality often doesn’t. Real life events often only have real life consequences, if the simulation of reality presents them as having happened in the way they actually happened.
Further watching: Videodrome (1983), eXistenZ(1999), the Matrix (1999), Paprika (2006), Inception (2010), etc.
Videodrome
Now that’s a name I’ve not heard in a long time. I remember watching it as a teenager in the 90s and having no freaking clue what was going on.
Hypoxicreality
Same as it ever was, Republicans peddle this xenophobic lie every election.
Democrats just as much. They just proposed the toughest border control bill…
It was literal bait.
They knew they would move the goalposts and not vote on it. The border is the only thing they had to run on, and they shot that all to hell. The economy is slowly getting better, wages are rising and the stupid Republicans not only shot themselves in the foot over the impeachment based on Russian criminal hearsay, they reloaded and shot the other one over the border deal they got.
I’m sorry, but I can’t be optimistic about this.
Even if we accept it was bait, and not just the DNC pivoting to the right, I think it was a losing move. Who is this going to sway? Republicans aren’t the kind to be well-informed and swayed by the changing circumstance of current events, so it won’t peel any of them away. As for the rest, it just shrank the differences between the two parties, whether practically or purely optically. It’s not like this just finally demonstrated that the Republicans were a fucking joke of a party when it comes to actual governance.
So we showed that the Republicans are incompetent hypocrites, as though that’s new information, and as if that realization would change any hearts or minds. And in exchange for this completely worthless prize, all it cost us was a now bipartisan consensus to push The Big Lie about immigrants. I don’t consider that a victory.
The DNC is still the lesser evil, and there’s still a significant margin. I just wish that margin was growing because the Democrats were moving left, not because they’re both moving right but at different speeds.
I haven’t seen any Democrats say they did it on purpose, but I could’ve missed that memo.
But even if it is bait, it’s using immigrant lives as bait, and I’m not cool with that. What if the Republicans voted for the bill? Risking all those lives, for what?
And furthermore: now that the Republicans are proven to be hypocrites, do you think that this will cost them any votes?
Not among the base
But
Independent voters are watching, and the Republican party is tanking with the 18-40s Independents.
I don’t know that I agree that it was bait. They were working on that bill long before it became apparent that it wouldn’t pass.
Even if it was bait, it was a tacit agreement that the racist fearmongering from the right was true.
I do think it was good political strategy in the end, but it still advanced and legitimized the alarming eliminationist rhetoric coming from the maga camp
advanced and legitimized
Do you know how much “legitimizing” something is worth in politics? Nothing. All politicians are masters at “legitimizing” whatever their voters want through cheap words. Actually doing something costs money and may piss off the wrong person, so they try to avoid that.
You can literally tell everyone placating things, “legitimizing” everyone’s opinion, and do nothing at the end of the day.
It doesn’t matter.
That’s not how I interpreted what happened, Democrats reject the lie but don’t mind secure borders and if that’s what it takes to make government function they are willing to pass bills to that effect.
Gee maybe because the media eats this shit up, just like they eat up any kind of copaganda. The media is overly trusting and sympathetic to cops, and conservatives in general.
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What? conservatives lying about crime!?! But they assured me they weren’t! They winked at me and everything!
“It’s not what I expected but then again I wasn’t sure what to expect when I came here” - some idiot who really thought the boarder was being invaded by “illegals”.
Relevant: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
Texas is SAFER every time an illegal immigrant enters the state.
Imagine validating obvious bullshit claims enough to do statistical analysis to prove they are, in fact, bullshit claims.
“A few rotten apples spoiled the bunch” is the excuse that many many groups of people including police use to describe the inherent crime that comes with any population.
“A few bad apples” is also what the police use to handwave away whenever one of their own goes bonkers and kills unarmed civilians
Conservative-friendly headline: Crime Wave of Illegal Immigrants
“Liberal Media” headline: Um actually, as it happens, sir, the thing is you see that numbers - we did numbers of it, that is a thorough review of words and numbers related to the reality of the situation shows that in fact there does not appear to be a factual or clearly identifiable basis for that being a thing that is which we could maybe be wrong about but we feel pretty good about the numbers even.
Advantage: fascists.
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