I’ve run across these terms several times, but without enough context to figure out what they mean. Could someone help me out, please?

ETA All of you are amazing! A huge thank you to everyone who responded, and an extra thank you to those who have provided links or explanations to further and/or related information. I am learning so much by reading all of these comments!

  • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Sealioning is the constant bad faith, feigning ignorance, asking for evidence of everything under the guise of “just asking questions”. Then ignoring any evidence presented and moving on to the next demand. Used to shut down discourse entirely.

    Tankies are leftists that defend or deny the atrocities committed by authoritarian communist regimes like the Soviet Union or the CCP. It was first used to describe communists in Great Britain that defended the Soviet Union for using tanks to crush anti-communist revolutions.

        • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago
          1. Probably ≠ all
          2. Nope, if you do (after Deng for China, after Stalin for USSR, for other time periods you could be a leftist) and have extensively learned about it you probably think you’re a leftist but you’re actually a rightist. Think about how exactly the sum of their policies align with left values more than right values.
          • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Nope, if you do (after Deng for China, after Stalin for USSR, for other time periods you could be a leftist) and have extensively learned about it you probably think you’re a leftist but you’re actually a rightist.

            So you think Jeremy Corbyn isn’t left? Lmao. What about Lula? Every Cuban politician?

            Think about how exactly the sum of their policies align with left values more than right values.

            This is you trying to re-align left vs right as culture instead of economic. It’s seriously america-brained bollocks and is not how anyone in the rest of the world views left vs right.

            • ScrimbloBimblo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              He’s not saying they’re right wing governments, just that they’re highly authoritarian, which is something that leftists, on average, tend to be against, so if someone claims to be “left” but supports Russia, they likely have a poor understanding of one of those things.

              • Shit@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                I mean it’s more of an up down issue and not a left right issue right? Most authoritarianism stuff ends up sounding the same. They both hate liberalism and want to stomp it out before they fight it out over the left right divide.

                • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  This is a major example of why I despise the left/right “spectrum” that is so universal in political discourse these days. These views are not simple enough to be defined along a one-dimensional axis like this.

                  I’m increasingly fond of the 8 values test, which splits things up along four distinct axes. Still too few, but definitely far better than just one.

                  • Shit@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    Thanks I like this test more than the other ones I’ve seen. I feel like it needs more questions but that’s the problem with all these tests.

                  • Blamemeta@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I got the following:

                    50.6% on the economic axis towards equality, 59.4% on the diplomatic axis, towards nation. 50.4% on the civil axis, towards liberty 55.8% on the societal axis, towards tradition.

                    Makes sense that I get called a Nazi multiple times on this god forsaken tankie-filled site.

              • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                Idk if I like this “left means anti authoritarian” thing I’ve seen floating around recently. By that interpretation right wing individualist anarchism is actually left wing, because though it is called right wing in the traditional sense of individualism v collectivism where collectivism is left wing, it is certainly against authority.

                Rather, I’m fine with this interpretation, but can we all get together and figure out whether or not “left” means “anarchism” or “collectivism?” This “it means either one of the two and people will just decide one is correct and deny the existence of the other definition and which one that is depends on who you’re talking to at that moment, and I won’t define it when askef, I’ll just act like you’re stupid for not knowing which one I choose to use today” shit is getting old and I’m like 99% sure it’s intentional as a technique to appear to win an argument without having any argument to speak of.

              • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                Like @shit (from shitjustworks, nice one) said, these don’t conflict. While I didn’t say anything about authoritarian (communism especially vanguardism is authoritarian and it never works out), I personally believe that modern China is right wing. For example, their current government wants to merge traditional values with law.

            • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Thank you for helping to spread Chinese, Soviet, and ableist propaganda. Plus you didn’t respond to that “probably” part.

        • Very_Bad_Janet@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          May I introduce you to the Far Right in America? They are often keen to downplay any Russian acts of aggression. ETA: Not saying that they would fit the definition of tankies, just that you don’t have to be a leftist to (overtly or tacitly) support Russia.

          G.O.P.’s Far Right Seeks to Use Defense Bill to Defund Ukraine War Effort

          The group’s proposals have no chance of passage, but they have further mired the military spending bill in a partisan fight and highlighted Republican divisions over the war.

          https://archive.is/2023.07.13-123054/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/12/us/politics/defense-bill-republicans-ukraine-war.html

    • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Tankies are leftists that defend or deny the atrocities committed by authoritarian communist regimes like the Soviet Union or the CCP. It was first used to describe communists in Great Britain that defended the Soviet Union for using tanks to crush anti-communist revolutions.

      Ironically history has proven that decision to have been the correct one and even the soft-left here in Britain today acknowledges that the people who were called “tankies” originally when that happened were all completely correct.

      Edit: Downvoters literally defending against the stopping of what were literal actual fascist-led uprisings because they know absolutely nothing about european history.