Lol, right. Linux ain’t even close to replacing windows - just look at the gaming issues that persist, or other compatibility issues.
It’s great for specific use-case scenarios, but I’m not dealing with supporting friends and family when stuff doesn’t work because I told them to install a Linux distro.
Besides, business doesn’t have this issue - it’s only on home (not Pro) installs, because for business we do all sorts of system management that would preclude this, even is MS tried to push it.
This just reflects how MS sees home users - there’s no profit there (never has been, it’s always been about getting people used to Windows at home, to capture the audience).
No one in my family is allowed to use Windows Home versions. They either buy pro when they get a new computer, or I get it for them.
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I had my first UNIX class in about 1990. I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I run a Mint laptop. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery (even then, to really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero).
There no way even possible via the GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions.
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. No, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of windows since 2000, at the least, and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s of a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery (even then, to really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero).
Are you kidding? Windows does this all the time. There have been countless times when I’ve left work with a fully charged laptop, then bring it back the next day to literal zero charge without having used it. I no longer trust sleep or hibernate mode at all for anything longer than an hour. And I’m not the only one with this problem. My partner (with a different laptop) has had the same thing happen, and so have my colleges.
I’ve got some ideas about why and how it might happen; but kind of beside the point. The point is that it is not true that Windows would never let your battery drain to zero while the computer is not in use. It does do it. Often.
In my specific case the manufacturer is Microsoft. (It’s a Surface Pro.) There isn’t anything wrong with the battery. The gist of the issue is that there are milllion-and-one different things that can wake the computer from sleep, and then a couple of reasons why it might not automatically sleep again when ideal. If it was up to me, I’d have it so that the power button was literally the only thing that could wake it. But alas, I cannot even find a way to stop it from waking when opening the case (which I would like to do to check if it has woken up from some other reason).
In any case, I’m just saying that power management can be a problem in Windows (as well as in Linux).
My Logitech G503 Lightspeed wireless mouse works instantly on my computer. Plug and play. Running Pop!_OS.
Gaming works great in Steam and Lutris.
Can’t speak for battery and power management, but I do have a laptop with Pop installed on it as well. Haven’t had any troubles, but it’s out of commission right now due to an unrelated hard drive cable issue.
Spot on about Excel, I suppose. I’ve never much liked libreoffice or Google sheets for tables.
Holy shit I feel seen by this comment. I run Linux on multiple hosts and VMs, but using Linux on the desktop for more than a month always tends to devolve into me getting pissed off at having to basically do work like troubleshooting at home.
I fix computers(servers) all goddamned day, I want to enjoy my free time, not have to perform a regular investigation into why shots not working when all I want is to work on my scripts…
I came in to say bravo,
Since day 1 on Lemmy i been hounded by Linux dude bros , whenever I say Linux is not possible I been down voted to hell.
Even as simple thing as putting a program in start-up is hassle and varies depending upon distribution, and I went on rabbit hole just like you said.
Even the friendlier(?) versions like pop os and zorin in 2024 and no where near to use ability as windows 95 is.
The worst thing is use of command/terminal , I simple just don’t want to use it at all, but not possible to do that STILL in Linux and dude bros keep telling me this is essential and their grandparents are using mint. This is believable only if they surf Internet and not do anything extra at all, that too since flash is dead , cause I have first hand experienced that I had to play with multiple command lines and what nots just to get YouTube working on Linux .
Linux is not ready to be used in home setting not unless it simplifies further as much as windows does AND has lot ofnsoftwarws availability. Think of something and thwr is software for it on windows , hardly the case for Linux ANY DISTRO.
now we await on Lemmy , for Linux dude bros to come out and defend Linux with 4% usage and down votes.
To be fair IDK how to tell a Windows program how to start up automatically if it didn’t have an option for that in it’s own settings… I’d have to search for a Windows guide
“shell: startup” or “shell: common startup” in an explorer window take you to the startup folder for your user or all users. Drop a shortcut in there and you’re done. Been that way for decades.
Thanks for dropping that knowledge… Perhaps in years and years hence I’ll search “Windows add app to startup lemmy” to remember how to do this… I’m much more used to using msconfig to tell Windows apps NOT to start up automatically…
Okay here is question , show me how in 1.ubuntu 2. Zorin os 3. Pop os . Starting from making a shortcut to a program, by finding whwre is the executable of program.
It’s a rabbit hole
Shortcut? To put on desktop? If it already exists in apps menu, then just drag and drop. Should work on every DE. If doesn’t work on your DE, then do right click on app in menu and look at the options.
If it doesn’t exist in apps menu(very rare), then do right click on executable and see the options.
The problem is that you’re trying to do shit like if you were still on windows. Linux doesn’t really have startup applications, we use daemons for everything that needs to start with the OS, everything else is meant to be launched manually.
However you can still do what you’re asking for, and it’ll depend on the DE not the distribution. Ubuntu and Pop OS use gnome that has an option to set startup programs in gnome tweaks.
In steam there’s a config option to launch on boot… But yea, all the arguments I’m seeing here is rooted in folks not wanting to learn. Switching to Linux is about as annoying as switching to osx. Yea there’s growing pains but no one ever uses these same bullshit excuses for that.
In Lubuntu there’s an autostart section of the session settings, and I had to put Nextcloud client AppImage in there because it wasn’t starting automatically. But maybe LXQt is unusual? IDK.
Anyway, it wasn’t that hard. I didn’t even have to do a Web search or use the terminal, just opened the system settings and looked around for something that looked like autostart.
It’s not that you can’t do it, but rather that it’s very much a windows concept, applications on linux don’t need to hog your attention and dig through your data by starting with the OS. On linux you start an application when you need it.
Setting up startup applications is usually a bit hard to find simply because it’s not a feature that people care much for so you typically have to dig a bit to do it.
Not really true imo. A lot of stuff is automatic. In kubuntu now, most of my apps from last session starts back up when I turn the computer on. Steam, rhythmbox, nextcloud client like I was saying, and all kinds of stuff start automatically as desktop apps. Panel applets are basically auto start apps.
One thing Linux doesn’t really do though is autostart stuff you don’t want.
But thats the thing you do know it , its found with one Search and applicable to Alllllllll the machines running the WINDOWS os (albeit different version might be lillte different) but on “linux” os its not the same for each distro, and its not easy in some cases
Instead of “Windows add app to startup” I would search “Ubuntu add app to startup” and limit it to articles posted in the past year. Maybe not obvious but not that different honestly.
On the other hand, no amount of searching got my laptop’s volume up and down keys to work in Ubuntu :(
Even as simple thing as putting a program in start-up is hassle and varies depending upon distribution, and I went on rabbit hole just like you said.
If you want to start program on login(like on windows), then you need to use you DE’s settngs GUI. If you want to start program on boot, then you need to enable startup script in your init.
So problems like in Windows are solved like in Windows.
and their grandparents are using mint.
My grandparents(and parents. and me.) are using Gentoo, but I recommend to people OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
Linux has a lot of hardware problems, so the safest choice is always to do like the time I had a Hackintosh: buy hardware you already know it’s compatible.
But regarding making Linux easy for the average consumer, I don’t think it will ever be. The incentive just isn’t there. Even though some distros try to simplify things, there’s too many layers and different configs where problems can happen and not enough resources to handhold users through all the steps. Apple can only polish their operating system because they sell very expensive computers, so they actually make a profit from the average consumer.
In the end, it’s all about money and incentives, Linux philosophy was never to make things easy for the non computer savvy person. It could change, absolutely, with enough money, research, hardwork (most likely voluntary, which is scarce) and collaboration with other areas, such as good designers and UX people.
This just reflects how MS sees home users - there’s no profit there (never has been, it’s always been about getting people used to Windows at home, to capture the audience).
Yes, so buisnesses would have higher switching cost from it.
Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot.
What are scaling governors, DVFS governors, does it have Energy Model enabled and do sensors work?
Since steam has come out with proton I’ve moved completely and haven’t looked back. I’m very happy with my choice. I’ve also had a lot less problems running Linux in both a professional and personal setting for the last 15 years. My comment was directed at someone smart enough to know a work around with this windows bullshit. And my response stands. If you know how to do tech support and still run windows then I guess have fun with this nonsense. In my opinion windows has just gotten shittier and shittier and continues to take it out on the user’s. I’m glad to be completely done with them.
Lol, right. Linux ain’t even close to replacing windows - just look at the gaming issues that persist, or other compatibility issues.
It’s great for specific use-case scenarios, but I’m not dealing with supporting friends and family when stuff doesn’t work because I told them to install a Linux distro.
Besides, business doesn’t have this issue - it’s only on home (not Pro) installs, because for business we do all sorts of system management that would preclude this, even is MS tried to push it.
This just reflects how MS sees home users - there’s no profit there (never has been, it’s always been about getting people used to Windows at home, to capture the audience).
No one in my family is allowed to use Windows Home versions. They either buy pro when they get a new computer, or I get it for them.
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I had my first UNIX class in about 1990. I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I run a Mint laptop. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery (even then, to really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero).
There no way even possible via the GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions.
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. No, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of windows since 2000, at the least, and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s of a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
Are you kidding? Windows does this all the time. There have been countless times when I’ve left work with a fully charged laptop, then bring it back the next day to literal zero charge without having used it. I no longer trust sleep or hibernate mode at all for anything longer than an hour. And I’m not the only one with this problem. My partner (with a different laptop) has had the same thing happen, and so have my colleges.
I’ve got some ideas about why and how it might happen; but kind of beside the point. The point is that it is not true that Windows would never let your battery drain to zero while the computer is not in use. It does do it. Often.
That’s partly a manufacturer issue, a lot more difficult problem to solve than it may seem.
In my specific case the manufacturer is Microsoft. (It’s a Surface Pro.) There isn’t anything wrong with the battery. The gist of the issue is that there are milllion-and-one different things that can wake the computer from sleep, and then a couple of reasons why it might not automatically sleep again when ideal. If it was up to me, I’d have it so that the power button was literally the only thing that could wake it. But alas, I cannot even find a way to stop it from waking when opening the case (which I would like to do to check if it has woken up from some other reason).
In any case, I’m just saying that power management can be a problem in Windows (as well as in Linux).
Configure wakeup sources
My Logitech G503 Lightspeed wireless mouse works instantly on my computer. Plug and play. Running Pop!_OS.
Gaming works great in Steam and Lutris.
Can’t speak for battery and power management, but I do have a laptop with Pop installed on it as well. Haven’t had any troubles, but it’s out of commission right now due to an unrelated hard drive cable issue.
Spot on about Excel, I suppose. I’ve never much liked libreoffice or Google sheets for tables.
On a Linux laptop, I’m the only one not scrambling for an outlet at the Cafe everyday 🤣
Holy shit I feel seen by this comment. I run Linux on multiple hosts and VMs, but using Linux on the desktop for more than a month always tends to devolve into me getting pissed off at having to basically do work like troubleshooting at home.
I fix computers(servers) all goddamned day, I want to enjoy my free time, not have to perform a regular investigation into why shots not working when all I want is to work on my scripts…
I came in to say bravo, Since day 1 on Lemmy i been hounded by Linux dude bros , whenever I say Linux is not possible I been down voted to hell.
Even as simple thing as putting a program in start-up is hassle and varies depending upon distribution, and I went on rabbit hole just like you said.
Even the friendlier(?) versions like pop os and zorin in 2024 and no where near to use ability as windows 95 is.
The worst thing is use of command/terminal , I simple just don’t want to use it at all, but not possible to do that STILL in Linux and dude bros keep telling me this is essential and their grandparents are using mint. This is believable only if they surf Internet and not do anything extra at all, that too since flash is dead , cause I have first hand experienced that I had to play with multiple command lines and what nots just to get YouTube working on Linux .
Linux is not ready to be used in home setting not unless it simplifies further as much as windows does AND has lot ofnsoftwarws availability. Think of something and thwr is software for it on windows , hardly the case for Linux ANY DISTRO.
now we await on Lemmy , for Linux dude bros to come out and defend Linux with 4% usage and down votes.
To be fair IDK how to tell a Windows program how to start up automatically if it didn’t have an option for that in it’s own settings… I’d have to search for a Windows guide
“shell: startup” or “shell: common startup” in an explorer window take you to the startup folder for your user or all users. Drop a shortcut in there and you’re done. Been that way for decades.
Thanks for dropping that knowledge… Perhaps in years and years hence I’ll search “Windows add app to startup lemmy” to remember how to do this… I’m much more used to using
msconfigto tell Windows apps NOT to start up automatically…Okay here is question , show me how in 1.ubuntu 2. Zorin os 3. Pop os . Starting from making a shortcut to a program, by finding whwre is the executable of program. It’s a rabbit hole
Shortcut? To put on desktop? If it already exists in apps menu, then just drag and drop. Should work on every DE. If doesn’t work on your DE, then do right click on app in menu and look at the options.
If it doesn’t exist in apps menu(very rare), then do right click on executable and see the options.
The problem is that you’re trying to do shit like if you were still on windows. Linux doesn’t really have startup applications, we use daemons for everything that needs to start with the OS, everything else is meant to be launched manually.
However you can still do what you’re asking for, and it’ll depend on the DE not the distribution. Ubuntu and Pop OS use gnome that has an option to set startup programs in gnome tweaks.
In steam there’s a config option to launch on boot… But yea, all the arguments I’m seeing here is rooted in folks not wanting to learn. Switching to Linux is about as annoying as switching to osx. Yea there’s growing pains but no one ever uses these same bullshit excuses for that.
In Lubuntu there’s an autostart section of the session settings, and I had to put Nextcloud client AppImage in there because it wasn’t starting automatically. But maybe LXQt is unusual? IDK.
Anyway, it wasn’t that hard. I didn’t even have to do a Web search or use the terminal, just opened the system settings and looked around for something that looked like autostart.
It’s not that you can’t do it, but rather that it’s very much a windows concept, applications on linux don’t need to hog your attention and dig through your data by starting with the OS. On linux you start an application when you need it. Setting up startup applications is usually a bit hard to find simply because it’s not a feature that people care much for so you typically have to dig a bit to do it.
Not really true imo. A lot of stuff is automatic. In kubuntu now, most of my apps from last session starts back up when I turn the computer on. Steam, rhythmbox, nextcloud client like I was saying, and all kinds of stuff start automatically as desktop apps. Panel applets are basically auto start apps.
One thing Linux doesn’t really do though is autostart stuff you don’t want.
But thats the thing you do know it , its found with one Search and applicable to Alllllllll the machines running the WINDOWS os (albeit different version might be lillte different) but on “linux” os its not the same for each distro, and its not easy in some cases
Instead of “Windows add app to startup” I would search “Ubuntu add app to startup” and limit it to articles posted in the past year. Maybe not obvious but not that different honestly.
On the other hand, no amount of searching got my laptop’s volume up and down keys to work in Ubuntu :(
If you want to start program on login(like on windows), then you need to use you DE’s settngs GUI. If you want to start program on boot, then you need to enable startup script in your init.
So problems like in Windows are solved like in Windows.
My grandparents(and parents. and me.) are using Gentoo, but I recommend to people OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
Linux has a lot of hardware problems, so the safest choice is always to do like the time I had a Hackintosh: buy hardware you already know it’s compatible.
But regarding making Linux easy for the average consumer, I don’t think it will ever be. The incentive just isn’t there. Even though some distros try to simplify things, there’s too many layers and different configs where problems can happen and not enough resources to handhold users through all the steps. Apple can only polish their operating system because they sell very expensive computers, so they actually make a profit from the average consumer.
In the end, it’s all about money and incentives, Linux philosophy was never to make things easy for the non computer savvy person. It could change, absolutely, with enough money, research, hardwork (most likely voluntary, which is scarce) and collaboration with other areas, such as good designers and UX people.
Yes, so buisnesses would have higher switching cost from it.
What are scaling governors, DVFS governors, does it have Energy Model enabled and do sensors work?
Since steam has come out with proton I’ve moved completely and haven’t looked back. I’m very happy with my choice. I’ve also had a lot less problems running Linux in both a professional and personal setting for the last 15 years. My comment was directed at someone smart enough to know a work around with this windows bullshit. And my response stands. If you know how to do tech support and still run windows then I guess have fun with this nonsense. In my opinion windows has just gotten shittier and shittier and continues to take it out on the user’s. I’m glad to be completely done with them.