Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.
I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we’d sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual. I thought she’s just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: “I’d be very worried and look for you everywhere”, “I’d sue the city”, “I’d tell your mother exactly what happened and say I’m sorry”, and “I’d kill the guy who kidnapped you”.
She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like “if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?” But at this point, I think she’s finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I’m sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?
Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.
If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?
and that’s missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn’t leave a business card behind, so he wouldn’t have clue who to kill 😂
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
and expecting your partner to kill for you.
Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical
And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.
There’s just too much context and subtlies that we can’t know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.
Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.
Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.
Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?
Ok, status quo.
Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?
Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.
This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner’s part.
Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.
None of that is gaslighting. However, it’s a red flag.
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No, it doesn’t. Nothing here screams fear of abandonment. It screams insecurity, it screams anxiety, it screams mentally unhealthy, but this doesn’t say anything that could highlight BPD, or any other disorder.
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It absolutely does not. I’m not sure what you guys aren’t reading here, but the very first paragraph is about her wanting HIM to greet her when she arrived home in the Uber.
Being scared of being kidnapped is not fear of abandonment.
Y’all aren’t helping him if you’re telling him the wrong reasons to do the right thing. That ends up hurting both.
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Jumping in, I also have a lot of BPD experience (example, a marriage of well over 10 years).
This is very BPD-adjacent. I’m not saying OP’s gf has it per se, because there is no way we can know from here, but this is definitely on brand.
If you read between the lines, the social conversation could written as this:
“Heading home, I need support”
“I’ll support”
<Doesn’t support>
<She feels abandoned, fight or flight kicks in and it turns her attachment-avoidant, results in silent treatment>
<OP gives space, which is interpreted as further abandonment>
<OPGF can’t take it anymore, and asks questions that feel like they’re out of left field because in fight-or-flight kicks in, clear thought is nearly impossible>
<OP finally gives reassurance that he didn’t abandon her>
<Normalcy continues>
RyanLiu@lemmy.world read through this comment chain, therapy is the answer here.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text
You are not.
Source: 20 years of a successful marriage.
Your partner has some issues she seems to need to work through. Entertaining her delusions probably won’t help her.
You know, the usual.
I’m sure it’s been said already, but there is nothing usual about what you described. She sounds unstable and you should reconsider this relationship.
But to be pedantic, nothing about what you described sounds even remotely like gaslighting.
It is absolutely needless, unreasonable guilt tripping, though.
The bitch is crazy, get rid of her asap
the usual? what the fuck kind of people have you dated so far that asking a series of gone girl fantasy questions in the middle of the night acting like Kathy Bates from Misery is usual?
I have dated exactly 1 (one) girl. I am her first relationship as well. Maybe we just don’t know what is normal lmao
If there is one lesson I could teach my younger self, it would be to have several low commitment relationships while I was younger to learn what is “normal”. Once you start making murder pacts, it’s usually too late.
I dated in high-school but now I have been single for like 10 years, I feel so lost now it’s insane
I wish I had good advice for how to connect with people after the school years, that’s just difficult.
Being paralysed by adhd and thus playing video-games all day didn’t really help, I’m hoping to land a job soon and meet new people this way
Oh well, 7 years too late for me lmao
It’s never too late to break up. People get divorced with really complicated lives and they’re both better off. It will only get worse if you stick around. You should consider therapy together, although I think she really needs it on her own. She has to be willing to change her behavior.
what is normal lmao
It’s not, she’s crazy. Like “GTFO and block her ASAP” crazy.
This ain’t it. I can smell the batshit from here.
This is absolutely manipulative.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship, and when she did decide to talk about it, put you into a compromised position- being unable to think clearly.
The questions she’s asking are meant to elicit fear and massive guilt. Though to be blunt, I’m going to assume there’s no real danger of any of that happening, I assume the neighborhood is fairly safe. Because usually it is.
As for what you’d do…? Call the cops. Duh. You (probably) don’t have the resources to find any one and kill them, and besides which, if she’s really asking that you do, uhm… dodge that bullet.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship,
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn’t the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
A much more healthy response, from either individual, would be to set a timeframe for when they can reengage. Either him saying “clearly you don’t want to discuss this now. That’s okay. How about the morning?” or her saying the same, essentially. It’s healthy to admit that you just do not have the emotional capacity to have a conversation respectfully.
There’s a pretty good chance the questions asked were only asked because she was still very emotionally high. The fact that it occurred in the middle of the night, suddenly, after OP being asleep, says that she has probably not been regulating. Not good times to be having emotional discourse. Every person has said weird, gross, or straight up untrue things when they’re emotionally charged. Stuff you don’t believe or wouldn’t act on, and never would have said in a normal state.
None of this is to excuse any of the actions or words said. She clearly has some emotional issues, and needs actual, professional help. I’m just picking at the “refusing to talk” bit. There are healthy ways to refuse to talk, and many benefits to not just butting heads immediately.
Edit for clarity: the only thing I disagree is the bit I quoted. The bit about engaging outside of a timeframe comfortable to you. I feel like some people are thinking I’m defending the GF - to be clear, I am not. Again, I am JUST disagreeing with the bit I directly quoted.
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn’t the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
So she gets to unilaterally decide when they talk? including, when the OP is in a vulnerable mental state? I think you’re focusing too much on what the GF needs and denying the OP the same you’d give her. The fact that he was sleeping would definitely suggest he’s not ready to have the conversation.
I didn’t say he couldn’t also choose to pick a better time. It’s a mutual thing. They both need time to process the new information, get into a more healthy state, and readdress this thing. That can only happen when both say as much.
I’m pretty sure I said as much in the rest of the post, if you want to go back and read the other 80%.
She gave him the silent treatment.
She did not say: “Look, I’m really angry/flustered/sad/whatever right now, please give me some space and we can talk about this later.”
She then was just standing there at 1 am at his bed, implying either she’d been standing there for a while (weird) or she woke him up (rude).
The situation as described has nothing in common with two partners who understand themselves and their boundaries well and set aside a time to discuss things in a mutually agreed upon time and place when they both expect to have more emotional bandwidth.
Again, did I say she did things perfectly? Nope. In fact she did them pretty fucking bad. Go back to my first post and read it again, please. I said those things were bad BECAUSE she was doing them.
I only ever had an issue with the person I replied to saying that you have to engage in the conversation, possibly before you’re ready. No. That’s wrong. You engage with the conversation when BOTH PARTIES feel comfortable.
Both people can be right, or wrong. They both handled it pretty badly. I’d say she probably handled it worse. Again, the ONLY THING I’m commenting on at all is the implication that someone MUST engage with a conversation before they’re ready to.
Nuance and reading comprehension are hard.
Edit for clarity: the only thing I disagree with from the original comment I replied to is the bit that I quoted. The bit about engaging outside of a timeframe comfortable to you. I feel like some people are thinking I’m defending the GF - to be clear, I am not. Again, I am JUST disagreeing with the bit I directly quoted.
Abandon ship, my dude.
So, fair warning, I am autistic, but also, I’ve had several multi year relationships with people of differing similarities to this person, here’s my read of this:
This is extremely manipulative and abusive behavior toward you.
You forgot about a text after a hard day of work.
She got angry and refused to speak with you for hours because you missed a text.
And you say this is apparently normal behavior.
That is fucking absurd, to be frank.
Before any of the rest of the story, that alone is bonkers.
Just do the reverse situation in your head. You’re out late for some on location work event, text her and ask if she can be there when you get back home. She forgets.
Would you be so angry or disappointed that you would refuse to speak to her for 3 hours, would that be something she would accept as normal behavior from you, and would she be inclined to blame herself and totally accept this punishment from you as appropriate?
The rest of this story is she wakes you up in the middle and questions you with absurd nonsensical questions that are all specifically designed as loyalty tests.
I had a 3 year relationship with a person like this.
She was schizophrenic, massively physically, mentally and emotionally abusive toward me.
I am of course not going to say your partner is schizophrenic based off of this alone, I am just saying that reading your story immediately sent me back into the mindstate and memories of my own.
It is however clear to me that your acceptance of this kind of behavior as normal, up until the middle of the night nonsense questioning, to me this indicates that she is utterly dominating you into total submission, and you think this is normal.
It is not.
Fucking bail out immediately is what I would do.
It is completely absurd to think that she could somehow have been kidnapped in the 30 seconds between getting out of an uber and walking to your door.
If she actually believed she was in real danger of being kidnapped, she almost certainly would have told you why, and would have asked you to evaluate her why and what to do to prevent it.
Shes fucking grooming you when she guilt trips you into saying you’d murder someone on her account in a totally hypothetical situation that she is taking extremely seriously.
She is trying to make you feel extremely guilty for things that 1) are not and would not be your fault if they occured and 2) have almost 0 chance of actually occurring.
Maybe there is a 1% chance she will open up later and tell you, wow ok, i was really on edge last night, here is why: and then recount an actual, unlikely but possible extremely unnerving situation.
Or, she is cheating on you or has done something you would be greatly displeased with if you found out, and this is all a reflection/distraction technique. She felt guilty so she leaped at any chance to make you into the bad guy.
Again, I obviously cannot say with any certainty that is what is actually going on, but I can certainly say that she is a highly manipulative and abusive person if you find it normal for her to just completely give you the silent treatment for hours for an inconsequential error.
If she consistently behaves like this when you make a mistake, then you are being emotionally abused.
Run.
Fucking run, bro.
I’ll add to the chorus. No, by definition this isn’t gas lighting, but the behaviour is extreme and no less concerning. I’ll not try to give amateur psychological diagnosis over the internet like some here are apparently willing to do, but you don’t need that to know that she’s acting in a really fucked up way.
I wouldn’t say you were “in the wrong” for missing her text, I mean, you missed it, it’s not like you chose to do that, but I can see why from her perspective it felt temporarily frightening and it made her angry to be put in that situation (I’m assuming she was just frightened and that that’s justified where you guys live, because where I am, her request is strange in the first place and getting mad about it not being fulfilled is ludicrous). How she’s dealt with those unpleasant, but temporary emotions that had a perfectly reasonable explanation and resulted in no actual harm is unreasonable, unfair and ridiculous.
The questions themselves are as manipulative as they are pointless. “What would you tell my mother?” I hardly think that’s a particularly important consideration “she’s been kidnapped” probably, since that’s what’s happened in this scenario, the question is not asked to get an answer, it’s asked to maximise guilt because she thinks it’s your fault if some psychopath kidnaps her. The subsequent questions likewise are selfish questions to ask because realistic answers are implicitly unacceptable, she just wanted debasement and contrition. If the CCTV is broken then the police, who would be the ones investigating this, would have their investigation compromised, there’d be little you or anyone could do about that hence asking because she wants some kind of super hero saves the princess type of answer or for you to have no answer so she can pounce. She’s extracting false or unrealistic promises on purpose as a kind of emotional salve. The worst and most concerning of all is the request that you kill someone for her, this is real life, not John Wick. I can only assume and hope that she doesn’t really actually believe you’d do any of this nor really want it and it’s just part of this stupid punishment where you’ve got to promise the moon over and over until she feels you’ve made an idiot if yourself for long enough. If she really is sincere about that request and wants to bring it up again in any serious capacity that really would be time to leave because the fact that she has a manipulative streak and is now apparently murderous as well raises a lot red flags, but most likely she was never serious to begin with and this will likely not be something that comes up particularly often. This was up to you but frankly I would have stopped the game of make believe at that point and not actually made a promise to kill people on her behalf even if it’s all non-specific fantasy, it’s not a prospect that should be entertained on any level. The thing about the cat was just funny and honestly would have been kind of sweet if it wasn’t for everything that came before. It is evident from the order of questions and the fact that you had answers to everything at that point that she was reaching for a “gotcha” to prove you don’t think about things because you’re somehow inconsiderate.
This response to an everyday wrinkle in the fabric of life is something to keep an eye on because if she cannot deal with being temporarily made to endure bad feelings on occasion without having to make you pay then this is going to happen to you a lot and the things you’re accused of or indirectly implied to be responsible for will be long and absurd. Let her cool off on this specific incident and if after there’s been time to reflect, she still brings it up again with the same manipulative and guilt tripping approach I’d suggest to her that maybe it’s not working out. If this single incident has shaken her faith in you so badly maybe she could take some responsibility for her own safety since apparently nothing you say will convince her that you’ll be of any use in that regard.
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Holy shit you gotta love the Internet with people, based on this one story, thinking it makes sense to warn that she might be planning a murder suicide. Lol wow.
Really? No.
Borderline personality disorder is a special kind of crazy, yes, but it’s severe abandonment anxiety at it’s core. I hate how much BPD gets thrown around, because it’s quite a bit more benign than people understand.
This situation doesn’t tell us ANYTHING about any mental disorder she may or may not have.
IT DOES tell us that she is not a healthy individual and he needs to fucking run because we don’t want to find out what really is wrong with her.
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No, SHE wanted him to meet HER at the Uber when SHE got home.
Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
I feel like there might be a culture gap here. OP hasn’t mentioned where he’s from, or what his neighborhood is like. I’ve lived in places where women do NOT want to be alone at any time, and I suspect many of the commentors here have never experienced a place like that.
It might just be an unhealthy relationship, but depending on context, it might be a very reasonable and understandable reaction.
PS - none of this is gaslighting. OP, do you even know what it means?
Edit: Nvm, OP mentioned they live in a safe city in the comments. Proceed with the traditional calls for breakup!
