Let’s put it this way; when Microsoft announced its plans to start adding features to Windows 10 once again, despite the operating system’s inevitable demise in October 2025, everyone expected slightly different things to see ported over from Windows 11. Sadly, the latest addition to Windows 10 is one of the most annoying changes coming from Windows 11’s Start menu.
Earlier this year, Microsoft introduced a so-called “Account Manager” for Windows 11 that appears on the screen when you click your profile picture on the Start menu. Instead of just showing you buttons for logging out, locking your device or switching profiles, it displays Microsoft 365 ads. All the actually useful buttons are now hidden behind a three-dot submenu (apparently, my 43-inch display does not have enough space to accommodate them). Now, the “Account Manager” is coming to Windows 10 users.
The change was spotted in the latest Windows 10 preview builds from the Beta and Release Preview Channels. It works in the same way as Windows 11, and it is disabled by default for now because the submenu with sign-out and lock buttons does not work.
Linux missed the mark years ago. It’s not a lack of people using it, it’s a lack of usability for people. You’re blaming users because Linux doesn’t work for them.
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Update: stopped running Mint on that laptop, it’ll never be viable for the intended use-case. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot.
Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it’ll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows simply will not let a battery get to zero.
There’s no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-first century, something Windows has had since I don’t recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it’s been what, almost thirty years now).
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, no, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
It sounds like many of your problems could be fixed by installing kde plasma6 instead.
I think this supports his argument. Having to research desktop environments to decide which is optimized for the potential problems a new user may face, then finding a distro that packages that DE is quite frankly too much for the average user.
I’d argue between 3% and 5% of PC users are willing to research and experiment to find the flavor of Linux that truly works for them.
Linux has come a long way, I still remember using Gentoo as a daily driver and seeing Linux cross 1% of desktop share, but the average desktop user doesn’t know the difference between a kernel and a colonel, and they don’t want to.
Nah, completely wrong take.
Linux can be adapted to fit any use case you have, and that’s an important part of its flexibility. What you really are getting at is that mass producing a machine with an OS built into it is convenient for consumers. See Android phones or Steam decks for evidence of this convenience being important to the sale of Linux based devices.
In the not too distant future, windows will go out of fashion for the home desktop PC. Someone will sell a cheap and cool arm based PC with a decent distribution. It will be a slow win, nothing like what we saw from macOS.
Linux has 4% of the pc market. This is an all time high. The fact that you think linux is a threat in any meaningful way tells me that you’re either too stubborn or too stupid to see why linux as it stands today will never even reach 10% of the market ever, let alone become the dominant platform.
Windows could become a yearly subscription at $500 per year, and linux would struggle to reach 6%.
he was wrong but you are way overcompensating. if windows suddenly became exorbetantly expensive, most people would just stop using computers altogether (its already easy for many people live with just a phone no PC). The remaining computer users (not counting businesses) would be enthusiasts, who are much more likely to enjoy the tinkering of Linux, or put up with it to avoid exorbetant costs. so without even gaining anymore users, Linux’s desktop market share would shoot up.
to be clear I don’t think Linux Desktop taking over is imminant or “near future.” thats nuts, it will probably always be a niche for enthusiasts and thier families/friends. but its also not going to stay eternally at 2-4%, the user experience is constantly improving and encompassing more hardware.
I know several people who would switch over to Linux if Windows cost that much and it would be: everyone I know.
It’s a moot point, because the average user doesn’t install any OS on their system. They get people like us to install it for them.
They don’t generally solve their own Windows problems either. OEM is the real bulwark of of Windows dominance. Usability and familiarity is one aspect, but I’ve set a good few people up with Linux at this stage and very few of them know what a kernel is, or what Plasma/Gnome are, because they don’t need to (same way they didn’t know or care what NT was either).
Whoosh. This happens literally every time anyone comments about how difficult Linux is, someone just recommends some other distro or obscure fix (this time a new desktop). You’re literally missing the actual problem here because you’re always trying to solve strange problems on Linux. The fact that you know a solution to this and the solution isn’t continue using your current system but instead install a new graphical interface is the exact problem that the person you’re responding to is complaining about.
You’re just assuming that installing KDE was a solution to some obscure problem he had instead of it being his existing system.
That’s how it’s been for me at any rate. I read a lot of the original post while thinking ‘I’ve never had that problem.’ After the first day of setting up the installation, I don’t really do any meaningful tweaking of the OS. Personally, I switched over from Windows because I was tired of fighting it to make it behave how I wanted and solving obscure problems with meaningless error messages.
I’m not assuming anything. He’s suggesting it as a solution. If your suggestion of a solution is to switch distros then Linux is not ready to be a desktop env. And I’ve seen multiple people recommend KDE as a “solution” to people’s problems so forgive me if I took them suggesting it as a solution as them suggesting it as a solution.
I’m responding to the more general sentiment you and BearOfaTime expressed, which is that one is ‘always trying to solve strange problems on Linux.’ KDE is being offered as a solution in this instance, but it’s also just a default in its own right. Contrary to how you’re characterising it, it’s not a distro, it’s not difficult to install, and it absolutely is not obscure.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. For what it’s worth, I haven’t run into laptop problems like those you described.
You’ve reminded me that people who declare “linux isn’t ready” often make the same mistakes:
Proficiency with any tool takes practice. More so when you don’t have an abundance of good mentors and pre-packaged solutions for what you want to do with it. That doesn’t make the tool bad. It doesn’t mean it lacks usability. It mostly just means that you haven’t learned how to use it yet.
Edit: Split the rest into a separate comment, since it wasn’t really addressing anyone specific.
Thats ALL PCs.
Alright, fair enough. But then within the linux operating system, it should make those islands official sources for quality information. Make them easier to find.
Nope. (example) (example) (example)
(And if you don’t like ready-made PCs, you can always build your own.)
Heh. It would be nice to have such things handed to us on a platter, wouldn’t it?
In reality, there is no central organization in a position to speak for the whole linux ecosystem, and a great deal of the work and knowledge comes from unpaid volunteers acting on their own. Standing out from the noise on the internet is harder than you might think.
However, there are companies selling direct support, and communities focused on specific topics, and wikis run by some of the most popular linux distributions, and classes, and books, and various other good information sources.
And, even if you have no money to spend, you will eventually come across some of the community-maintained gems just by regularly dedicating time to learning. Finding good info gets easier with practice.
I’ve run Linux on custom built gaming computers. You still get all the same problems that dude is talking about. And no, forums and wikis are not a replacement for the os just working. A good analogy for Linux that a friend came up with. “Linux is a tank, it can blast through anything, you can do tons with it. But it doesn’t come with a cup holder. You decide to install one. But when you do so the shift lever doesn’t work anymore. So you move the shift knob over, now the AC doesn’t work. You fix that and now the tank won’t turn right, unless the AC is off.” You get the point.
I switched over to Linux because I was tired of fighting Windows to make it behave the way I wanted while struggling to solve obscure issues because of meaningless error messages. I use my Linux machine for gaming/work and everything in between. The only reason I boot into Windows these days is for VSTs and Photoshop.
And I’m not suggesting that Linux just works and never has any issues, but it’s ludicrous to suggest that Linux doesn’t work in a way that Windows just does. If Windows just worked I wouldn’t have to fix stupid issues for my family and friends all the fucking time.
Actually, I don’t.
Nobody suggested that.
I get what you’re trying to express, but I also have more than a little experience to the contrary. I’m almost curious what you and your friend did that led to things breaking as you described, but it’s not important here. Obviously, your mileage may vary, as with any operating system.
In any case, some people would rather learn new things than keep suffering Microsoft’s ads, spyware, and bloat. You don’t have to be one of them.
You literally said that.
I use Linux all the time. I have an unraid server in my basement with about 50 docker containers. I run Debian to run a lemmy instance. I use windows for gaming, and I use Mac for software dev. Linux works fantastic for servers. As a desktop os it’s shit.
As for “what we did that led to Linux breaking”, that’s just a hilarious question. Go to your Linux wikis and forums and read there. It will literally just break plugging in the wrong device. This isn’t a “my friend and I”. This is every software dev I’ve ever talked to that has used Linux, including ones that currently use it.
Your last comment there is the exact point I’m trying to make. If you have to learn anything in order to literally make the OS function (e.g. even set up a monitor) then Linux will never go mainstream. That’s just a fact.
I wrote several paragraphs in a conversation spanning multiple comments, and you picked out a tiny fragment of one sentence, stripped it of context, and somehow reinterpreted it into a suggestion that forums and wikis are a replacement for an OS “just working”. That’s your straw man, not mine.
Bye bye.
Thoroughly enjoyed this post thanks. I have long wished for a FOSS OS that can truly become popular by considering these users and carving a mainstream path for them. Even - for people who don’t even know what terminal/shell is and don’t care.
You post this same thing all the fucking time. “Someone said it better than me,” this guy decides to install random shit and run whatever command he can find and it, shockingly, doesn’t fix the problem?
You must be fun at parties
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I was going to write a reply to that guy about how linux doesn’t work for the common man, but then you come in and write shakespear level articulation that blows away my tiny brain cell reply.
It’s just such a complete analysis of the situation. The only thing missing is how linux requires you to use the terminal. Yes, REQUIRES. People can say it doesn’t all they want, but go on any self help guide, and any problem you have, is “step 1, open terminal”.
What would you say to someone who doesn’t know what terminal is?
“Ok, open terminal?”
“Whats that?”
“Its like a command line, but better”
“Whats a command line?”
And this is why 96% of people AREN’T using linux. Most windows users don’t understand how windows works. Most drivers don’t understand how cars work. And linux you HAVE TO be a mechanic to use linux. Because unlike windows and mac, linux isn’t designed to be used by idiots. And most of the world are idiots. Hell, I’m an idiot.
And until linux can fix itself FOR the user, no user will even take a look. Even if there were a single distro that did all that, you’d have to convince people “this linux isn’t like the other linux”. It’s the main reason that even though Android is linux, it stays far far away from that branding. It doesn’t want the linux stink.
And from what I’ve seen, every developer WANTS linux to be hard to use. Like a right of passage. “I had to endure these learning curves, and so shall you!”
I really don’t understand the objection to using a terminal to get things done. It’s just a window that you can type text commands into. You don’t even have to come up with the commands on your own, you find the ones that solve the problem on the internet, copy and paste, and boom problem fixed. How is this different from looking up a solution to a Windows problem that walks you with a series of pictures through using Regedit or Group Policy Editor, only instead of pasting text into a terminal, you have to click through dozens of menus, trees, and tabs to find the setting you need to change? You’re still looking up solutions online in either case, but the Windows solutions require navigating windows with dozens of mouse clicks versus copying and pasting some text in Linux.
vs
Me: My fan doesn’t work.
Internet: To install fan copy this command into terminal.
Me: does that.
Computer: error.
Internet: ???
Me: ???
And 5 years later I still can’t turn on the fan.
Is that supposed to be a real example? It’s just that fans are controlled by the BIOS, not the OS, so fixing a fan problem would usually involve either updating your firmware, which I have never seen done via a terminal command, or changing a BIOS setting, which could involve rebooting and holding a key like F2 to enter the BIOS settings menu (not Linux, usually a quasi-graphical mouse-driven UI) to change something there.
Thats what I’m told to do. My raspberry pi says it took…but my fan isn’t on.
Take the spaces out.
Wait, this is for a Raspberry Pi? I thought we were talking about Linux as a desktop OS. You wouldn’t run Windows on a Raspberry Pi, so while I’m sorry you’re having trouble with your Pi’s fans, I don’t see how that’s relevant to the merits of Linux as a desktop OS.
Well I’m trying to post the 2 line code to you, but Lemmy won’t even let me paste it here.