• crusty_baboon@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    The time between them ordering him out of the car (not asking to roll down the window) and them forcing him out was a few seconds.

    • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      The one I saw was longer, they knocked at least two different times and he kept telling them off.

      • crusty_baboon@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        But they didn’t tell him to get out of the car yet. He should have rolled down the window yes, but that’s a separate issue than Penn vs Mimms.

        • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          Sure, but once they establish a pattern of non-compliance it doesn’t reset with each new instruction. They expect he will resist getting out of the car based on his refusal to roll down the window. At that point they have to choose whether to get him out of the car quickly, or risk non-compliance issue with that, which could involve fleeing or hitting people with his car.

          When officer or public safety are at risk they will always choose to take someone into custody to stabilize the situation and then reassess from there.

          The situation with the window can’t be separated from the treatment with the door.

          • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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            9 days ago

            That is a policy of escalation, there is no reason to follow it. It just makes situations where this is more likely. It’s a miniscule increase in safety for an officer at a cost of massive risk to the public.

            • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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              9 days ago

              That’s just naive. And that’s a big claim, a “massive risk” to the public, so back it up… Who got hurt in this instance?

              • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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                9 days ago

                The three people cops killed today, the at least double that of dogs, and had Hill nor been an nfl player on game day he would probably still be in jail.

                • mrcleanup@lemmy.world
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                  9 days ago

                  So In this specific instance, the specific instance we are talking about, the instance that is the topic of this discussion, no one.

                  The obvious follow up question is, if he were rolling up the tinted windows so he could retrieve a weapon without the cop seeing, or if he had taken off at high speed in his little sports car and run a high speed chase before crashing, could multiple people have died?

                  I’ll just give you the obvious answer, “yes”.

                  The reason your answer is naive isn’t because cops don’t do terrible things, they do, and they should absolutely be held accountable. It is because cops are also often on unpredictable situations and if you can’t look at something like this and see where pulling him out of the car could be justified, you can’t argue in good faith where the line is between this and a true abuse of power.

                  And if you can’t do that, the people in power will never take your argument seriously, and your will continue to be largely ignored.

    • doingthestuff@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      The clip I saw at the link looked like it was edited right there, I’d love to see the raw video. It could have been too quick, it could have been longer. I don’t know.