This a much better done meme
The other one before makes zero sense
Python is just a pile of dicts/hashtables under the hood. Even the basic
inttype is actually a dict of method names:x = 1 print(dir(x)) ['__abs__', '__add__', '__and__', '__bool__', '__ceil__', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dir__', ... ]PS: I will never get away from the fact that user-space memory addresses are also basically keys into the page table, so it is hashtables all the way down - you cannot escape them.
audible C++ programmer disgust
js is similar, though it does not include python’s precalculated numbers
calculates integers from -5 to 256, see:> a = 100 > b = 100 > c = 1000 > d = 1000 > a is b True > c is d False
I find Python easy to just code a prototype with. But I find Rust easier to get right.
This is basically what I’ve been telling people for years. Prototype in Python to get the concepts down, then when you’re serious about the project, write it in a serious language.
python is IMO the closest thing we have to a platonic ideal scripting language: it’s pseudocode that actually runs and you can just slap together libraries with minimal mental effort until it works.
Great for gently getting into programming so you quickly see results without having to learn arcane incantations, and for writing small tool programs; not so great for writing a kernel in.
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This is why I decided to learn Nix. I built dev environment flakes that provision the devshell for any language I intend to use. I actually won’t even bother unless I can get something working reliably with Nix. ;)
For example, here’s a flake that I use for my Python dev environment to provide all needed wiring and setup for an interactive Python web scraper I built:
{ description = "Interactive Web Scraper"; inputs = { nixpkgs.url = "github:NixOS/nixpkgs?ref=nixpkgs-unstable"; utils.url = "github:numtide/flake-utils"; }; outputs = { self, nixpkgs, utils }: utils.lib.eachSystem ["x86_64-linux"] (system: let pkgs = import nixpkgs { system = system; }; in rec { packages = { pyinputplus = pkgs.python3Packages.buildPythonPackage rec { pname = "pyinputplus"; version = "0.2.12"; src = pkgs.fetchPypi { inherit pname version; sha256 = "sha256-YOUR_SHA256_HASH_HERE"; }; }; pythonEnv = pkgs.python3.withPackages (ps: with ps; [ webdriver-manager openpyxl pandas requests beautifulsoup4 websocket-client selenium packages.pyinputplus ]); }; devShell = pkgs.mkShell { buildInputs = [ pkgs.chromium pkgs.undetected-chromedriver packages.pythonEnv ]; shellHook = '' export PATH=${pkgs.chromium}/bin:${pkgs.undetected-chromedriver}/bin:$PATH ''; }; }); }I’ve been intrigued by Nix for quite a while. I will learn it as well.
It feels like magic. I think of it as the glue that makes almost all of my software work together seamlessly. I can’t wait to use it for one-click deployments of my software on a server or high-availability cluster.
Reject modernity
Return to C
Reject tradition
Embrace scratch
You’re the “chaotic evil” guy aren’t you
When everything’s a logic block, nothing will be
snap!
Why don’t you upvote your own comment?
idk. still doing it though.
Fair enough
Reject modernity
Return to z80 Assembly
LOG
amen
Good meme. However I do think that most people starting out will not really have to deal with any of those issues in the first few years apart from maybe the pip/venv/poetry/etc choice. But whatever they’ll pick it’ll probably work well enough for whatever they’re doing. When I started out I didn’t use any external libraries apart from pygame (which probably came pre-installed). I programmed in the IDLE editor that came with Python. I have no idea how I functioned that way, but I learnt a lot and hat plenty of fun.
What about the issue where people try to install new version of python sometimes try to uninstall the “old” pre-installed version on a linux system and thus borking the whole s
Definitely not me, anymore
I may or may not have done this haha. I’m a threat to any working piece of software, just enough knowledge to be able to break shit and too little knowledge to avoid breaking shit. I think after all these years I’ve mostly learnt my lesson though. The package manager is the boss, and if I don’t like it I have to work around it without upsetting the package manager
I think experienced programmers may have a different route to a degree. A number of years in one language, for instance, including fairly complex production settings, etc. and having to transition to python for a new job or company or decision from someone higher up the food chain. I did it from a largely perl and PHP background for both Rust (a tiny bit of experience before, but not a super complex environment) and Go (zero to prod in a few months dropping in rewritten portions of the former PHP monolith). I can talk about memory usage, race conditions, etc. but would be completely screwed with anything internal to python or its quirks.
Man, the variable scoping thing is insidious. It will never not be weird to me that
ifs and loops don’t actually create a new scope.And then you try to do a closure and it tells you you didn’t import anything yet.
Sooo… switch to Perl then? 😜
Of course! Why didn’t I think about that? Maybe I could also switch some other parts of the code to Lisp?
S-s-s
S-s-s
S-s-s
S-s-s-sure!
Maybe some Lua, as a treat?
I feel offended by you somehow equalizing perl and lisp
I still sometimes bang out small perl scripts for things that are too annoying/complex for command prompt and shell scripts but not worth writing something in, say, Go. I never learned python which is probably why I never use that.
People keep saying Python, despite how it (1) sucks, and (2) is super annoying to keep up to date, with package management and the like, unlike Perl that is more stable. Though Python is also easy to use and powerful and extensible.
But I think each language type is what it is and has its own set of tradeoffs and balances. Unix is hyper-stable and secure but limited, Perl is powerful but requires discipline to use to full effect, and these days most people don’t bother to learn it. Python is… “common”, is perhaps the best way to put it:-). C/C++ is even more powerful, the latter bloated, and blamed for most memory management issues (although really, how much of that is merely bad programming practice? Okay, so it allows such though).
And now Rust is the new hot thing.:-)
I enjoyed working with Rust once I got into its workflow. The borrow checker and lifetimes suck for people not used to the concepts. The funny thing about languages with lots of safety features is when people just
unsafethings, an option in many languages to give oneself plenty of rope for a self-hanging (or, “footguns” is the hip new way of saying that).I’m guessing it says “either I’m being forced to use this language or it’s the only related one I know how to use, but only halfway”:-)
Python 3.13 is adding support for removing GIL, via PEP 703
