- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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Huge!
Ensuring that Unable To Decrypt (UTD) bugs never happen. Huge amounts of work has gone into this over the course of the year, especially via complement-crypto as a comprehensive end-to-end-test suite for both matrix-rust-sdk and matrix-js-sdk based Matrix clients. We are finally at the point where UTDs are so rare that most people simply never see them.
Definitely
All I need is a client that looks and feels like discord to replicate voice channels and I will switch to matrix and host my own instance
It’s not exactly like discord but cinny looks nice imo
why do you want terrible ui
Old discord when it first came out was nice
Push-To-Talk when?
That’s up to clients to implement, not part of the protocol.
But yeah its kinda dumb its not a thing in element
That would be huge and would make me and my friends switch from mumble/discord to matrix. However, i fear that high latency may be an issue.
What’s push to talk and why is it such a great feature?
It’s for voice, so that your mic is only active when you press an activation button. It’s how most PC games do it, and I would say it’s how most folks on PC use voice. It’s honestly a pretty basic feature, and super frustrating that it seems not to be a priority.
Best chatting app
I’m ignorant about matrix, what is better in matrix than xmpp?
In XMPP, e2e encryption (just like everything else) is an optional extension. So in practice half the clients don’t support e2ee, half support different version of e2ee (can’t talk to each other) and pretty much all e2ee are likely full of holes since there are too many implementations to review.
In Matrix, e2ee is in a library that all clients can use, so while it is not Signal, it provides decent security.
The Matrix Reloaded
Still don’t understand the need for matrix when xmpp is a much more battle tested standard, far more lightweight, way less complex, and easier to make clients for.
XMPP Works fine when it’s setup or when you don’t manage the hosting, but God is it painful to self host an xmpp server. Then you have the clients that are all basically 10 years old at this point, except maybe Dino for linux. It even needs a special setup to work on restricted networks via port 80/443 because it wants port 5222 and 5223, and let me tell you, I’ve spent over a week trying to setup that reverse proxy, it was hell. I’ve never Hosted matrix so maybe it’s worse, but this isn’t the end of my gripes with xmpp. Most basic communication features in 2024 such as replies reactions quoting threads etc.etc. are unsupported ootb, and you need both a client that supports the extensions (often very slow to adapt “new” standards AND a server that has enabled the plugin for that feature.
Xmpp is plain old, and like many like to think, no xmpp was not “triple-E’d”, people simply stopped using it because it’s really inconvenient and the UX is horrible.
XMPP Works fine when it’s setup or when you don’t manage the hosting, but God is it painful to self host an xmpp server.
I recommend you use snikket if you’re having trouble selecting plugins, because it has everything you need out of the box and its super easy to setup.
It even needs a special setup to work on restricted networks via port 80/443 because it wants port 5222 and 5223,
Isn’t that just a configuration in prosody / snikket? What implementation did you use that didn’t let you configure this? Or are you expecting major implementations to default to port 80/443? Because that would be quite problematic.
Most basic communication features in 2024 such as replies reactions quoting threads etc.etc. are unsupported ootb, and you need both a client that supports the extensions (often very slow to adapt “new” standards AND a server that has enabled the plugin for that feature.
This is already supported by the major clients. I know for sure that conversations on android (and I suppose the many clients based on it) supports it. For server implementations, it is available out of the box on snikket, and it is a plugin you have to enable on prosody.
way less complex
I don’t agree with this.
Can you please explain why? A quick look at the spec for both protocols shows you that matrix is literally a hundred times more complex, so I don’t understand the basis of the contrary. The matrix creators have shown they are okay with increased complexity under the pretext of a more complete experience, but in reality, XMPP has achieved the same features with far less complexity.
If you’re speaking about self hosting, again, I don’t see how, as matrix is notorious for self hosting issues. XMPP’s snikket works out of the box and has all the commonly used features and plugins pre-baked. The underlying prosody implementation is a step down, but is also quite easy as long as you know what plugins and options to activate (and if you don’t, then use snikket).
I don’t want to defend Matrix. I agree that it is not stable and lightweight. However, I believe it is simpler than XMPP. Wanna set up a server? Synapse. Need a client? Element. The default softwares are easy for new users to discover.
Also, the fact that Matrix has a single protocol means that in theory all servers and clients can work with each other (Although I know we are far from that at the moment). It is much better than XMPP’s XEPs in terms of simplicity.
It’s not that I don’t like XMPP. I want a stable, encrypted, federated messaging platform. However, in terms of money and motivation, Matrix seems to be closer to that right now.
With all due respect, this is a very biased view
Wanna set up a server? Prosody (which has a hassle free out of the box experience through snikket)
Need a client? Conversations
The default softwares are easy to use for new users.
For matrix, however, you are forced to use synapse. You complain that xmpp is not a single protocol, but in reality, all the major implementations are compatible. Can you say the same about matrix? The other implementations aren’t even close to achieving this.
Xmpp’s extensions are a powerful feature, and the issues you think it presents do not exist with xmpp anymore, but is actually the status quo for Matrix.
When I decided to try XMPP, I had to do a lot of research to decide which applications I should use for the server and client. I did not experience this in Matrix. And yes, I know Matrix is not stable. I am not against that. It’s just easier to get on board.
If we told two people to use these two software independently, they would start using Matrix much more faster than XMPP. I think this is enough to call it uncomplicated.
Also, would you recommend Snikket server (or Prosody) for 1:1, group calls and screen sharing?
would you recommend Snikket server (or Prosody) for 1:1, group calls and screen sharing?
Answering this first so it doesn’t get buried down. Screen sharing wouldn’t be supported by xmpp since its just messaging, but I believe Jitsi has that feature. But for the rest, snikket and conversations (for android) I would recommend, yes.
When I decided to try XMPP, I had to do a lot of research to decide which applications I should use for the server and client.
Whatever is the first answer you get from a web search should be fine. Most sources recommend conversations for client, but all the other recommendations you’ll see are good too. For server, the easiest to setup is snikket, but all the other and up to date implementations should work okay, although they might need some configuration if you want all the modern messaging features.
If we told two people to use these two software independently, they would start using Matrix much more faster than XMPP.
Why do you think so? Let’s assume a user who doesn’t self host. XMPP clients are far more stable and error free, whereas matrix has random issues every now and then, especially with encryption and public groups.
XMPP clients are a lot more customizable and come in different models. Matrix has only one client that works well (and some forks of it that look roughly the same). I’d say that’s a win for XMPP for new users.
Now let’s say it’s a self hosting user. I don’t need to say much here, matrix is notorious for self hosting issues, and being a massive resource hog. XMPP, you have snikket, which works out of the box without issues and can be hosted on a raspberry pi even.
I may be biased here, so I urge you to tell me, in what way would a new user adopt matrix faster? I can tell you one. Matrix has corporate funding and has managed to advertise better. That’s their only win.
And to use it with a similar feature set, everyone is using different extensions which also have to be supported by the clients. I know there is this one server implementation (name escapes me at the moment) and Conversations on the client side, but it’s hardly the standard and we’re not really talking about plain XMPP then anymore.
Have you used XMPP recently and ran into the issue of non-obscure servers, clients, or self-hostable implementations using different extensions or not supporting them? (I actually haven’t experienced this even on the obscure ones, but can’t confirm for all of them). Please do not make that accusation, because that I’d really not what happens in reality.
it’s hardly the standard
Why not when… It literally is? And all major implementations follow it? That is by definition a standard.
and we’re not really talking about plain XMPP then anymore.
Why not? “extensible” is in the name. It is meant to be extended. The protocol is being used exactly as planned and intended.
twice the nazi pedophiles as before
We need to ban spoons because they are nazi pedophiles’ preferred tool for eating soup.
It’s software.
You could install it on a server and run a private room for your family(my usecase).
Nazis also meet in dark alleyways. Should we ban dark alleyways? No, we should probably illuminate them and decorate them a little.
