Recently, I made a post here, which gained some traction in support of the cause. However, I mistakenly used an outdated screenshot of Photon. It turns out that photon.lemmy.world is running an older version of Photon, which caused some misunderstandings.
For those who saw that post and were misled or disliked Photon because it appeared to display only 2-3 links on-screen, similar to new Reddit, let me clarify. While Photon is modern and intuitive, it is not like new Reddit in this particular aspect. This outdated screenshot gave the wrong impression, which I’ve since updated, but I wanted to create this new post since many people may not revisit the previous one to see the corrections.
The latest version of Photon, which can be seen at phtn.app, is a big improvement over what’s on photon.lemmy.world. Photon is modern, intuitive, and, speaking as someone with years of Reddit moderation experience who has also started moderating a few communities on Lemmy, it offers a far superior moderation experience. For example, Photon allows you to view the mod queue for all communities at once, making moderation much easier compared to the base UI or other alternatives.
Photon’s modularity and customization options are comparable to, if not better than, Kbin’s UI. You can easily change fonts, reposition docks and panels, apply custom themes, adjust sorting, and customize the modular side panel to arrange and pin items in any order you like. All of this can be done without needing CSS or additional technical knowledge. It’s probably the most modular yet user-friendly UI available right now.
Here’s an example of the latest Photon interface settings:
Here’s a more customized version I created in just a few seconds—it can be personalized even further:
In my previous post, I emphasized the need for a modern, visually appealing, and intuitive UI to help the Fediverse grow and attract mainstream users. Currently, Lemmy remains dominated mainly by discussions of political topics and critiques of Elon Musk, while its user base is still relatively small at around 40k+ users. For Lemmy to thrive, it needs to expand beyond its current niche and cater to more general topics and interests.
Personally, I use Reddit for far more than just shitting on Elon Musk, discussing politics, or even tech, especially FOSS. For example, I frequently engage with communities about cars, gaming, TV shows, entrepreneurship and general topics that are largely missing or underdeveloped on Lemmy. These general-interest communities are what make platforms like Reddit so versatile and appealing to a wider audience.
If we remain in our current comfort space, Lemmy will likely continue to stagnate as a niche platform. Meanwhile, other alternatives could grow and potentially replace Reddit one day, and it may not be decentralized, open source or community-funded rather centralized and driven by investors/VCs, Just as we’re seeing with platforms like Bluesky gaining traction over Mastodon to replacing X/Twitter. By embracing a UI like Photon’s, which is both modern and user-friendly, we can create a more inviting experience for mainstream users, helping Lemmy grow into a platform that caters to a broader audience.
You are right. The normies don’t want to use Lemmy if it looks like it does today. Hell, the only reason I use it is because of a sleek mobile app.
After your first post, i’ve thought about your points, and i’ve changed my opinions a little.
I agree, we should replace the default lemmy UI as a whole. Out with it. But photon wasn’t designed to be a “default” UI. It was designed as an alternative.
The point of a default UI is to be as accessible as possible, yet still functional. That’s why most users on the fediverse usually use a 3rd party client (Including me, i use photon + raccoon on mobile). While the current lemmy UI checks the “performance” box, the functionality box? not so much. It feels like everytime i use it i am overwhelmed with information density, and the auto expand feature implementation is just bad. Photon does the opposite. It checks the functionality box, but scratches the performance box. Even on a modern PC, photon is choppy for me, and the frosted glass effect is not helping.
I don’t think we should have a default lemmy UI, as in, every instance uses the same UI. As i said in the first post, it should be up to the instance maintainer to choose their own UI. This comes with its own problems. Lemmy.world’s photon is outdated, and so is lemdro.id.
Ultimately, this is in the hands of the instance maintainers, and Xylight himself. He is rewriting photon for more performance, so my answer may change.
I suggested the official adoption of Photon a year ago. Xylight was tentatively on board with it.
Even more important though is this change which would allow an alternative frontend to be used as a default, instead of having to be relegated to a sub-domain.
woah I hadn’t seen this thread. this would be massive
I’m kinda the opposite. I love the information density of the lemmy ui and as a text first user I dislike auto expanding pictures with a vengeance. Now I don’t really care what the default is as long as I can choose my poison.
Where did you find statistics on client use? I browse lemmy using firefox/mull whether it’s on desktop, laptop, tablet or phone.
It seems you’re uncomfortable with the term “default,” and I can understand why. However, when I use “default UI,” I’m referring to what users see when they access a server through its primary link (rather than alternate UI links like those offered by lemmy.world, for example). My proposal to replace the current base UI with Photon doesn’t take away the option for users to continue using alternative UIs if they prefer. That flexibility remains intact. However, the average user, especially those new to Lemmy, is likely to access and evaluate the platform through the default link.
Unless every single server admin changes to alternative UIs manually on their own, “default UI” will exist because a lot of servers, atleast to begin with, settle on whatever Lemmy comes with.
This proposal is aimed at both server admins, particularly those managing “general-purpose” servers where average users are most likely to join, and Lemmy devs themselves. A modern, intuitive default UI could significantly improve first impressions and help attract a broader audience.
In my experience, Photon has been responsive and largely glitch-free in terms of performance, especially compared to Reddit’s new UI, which I personally find horrible. That said, hearing that Photon is being rewritten for further performance improvements is encouraging and only adds to its potential as a suitable base UI.
Photon came up in this discussion amongst the Lemmy developers.
I frequently engage with communities about cars, gaming, TV shows, entrepreneurship and general topics that are largely missing or underdeveloped on Lemmy.
There’s more potential for than just tech on Lemmy, but it seems like people just prefer to talk about this. A community like the two listed above, or !casualconversation@lemm.ee could be much more active, but people just don’t seem really into this.
If we remain in our current comfort space, Lemmy will likely continue to stagnate as a niche platform.
I follow what you’re getting at here, but I think this line of thinking, of Lemmy as a platform, also contributes to the issues in drawing more people to this network of communities/sites.
As Kichae said in your other thread:
[…]
“Lemmy” doesn’t exist like Reddit does. It’s not a place people can go to talk about shit. It’s a website engine. It exists like WordPress does. One of its features just happens to be “can pull content from other websites”.If we want this space to grow, we need to focus on building community websites that stand on their own. Then we can market it as “hey, you love it here on MyInterest.social, but did you know you can also talk to people from SomethingElse.social? Pretty cool, huh??!?” Nobody seems to want to do that, though. That means we’re totally at the mercy of places like Twitter and Reddit, waiting for them to fuck up badly again and hoping more people just kind of land here, in some cheap and uncanny knockoff of where they really wanted to be.
On one hand I agree that the interface, and in turn the user experience, is worth focusing on to help get people to participate around here. On the other, I think you also need what Kichae describes at the end of their comment. Communities that can stand on their own with their own distinct identities and interests that also happen to let you talk with and see stuff from other distinct communities.
At some point I’d like to move to a little more focused sort of community like that built with Lemmy (or Piefed, or Mbin), but haven’t had luck finding any that fit so far since many are broader in scope instead.
Basically we need to market it as a forum software instead of just a reddit clone
Believe it or not that will not do us any favours lol, the term “forum” is becoming a thing of the past and if we want to become more mainstream and break being a niche platform, that isn’t the way to go.
It’s a bit of both in my opinion. You only market/suggest Lemmy (as forum/link aggregator software) to those with the tech knowledge to build with it, but to everyone else you mention a community site to join and don’t bother mentioning what it’s built with, as they won’t care anyway.
Right, I’m not hung on the term, just the idea.
To add, discourse is pretty big among techy communities, including, ironically, the fediverse forum. It also has a pretty terrible user experience, but also a ton of tools for corporates, which lemmy will probably need if they want to market to those types (lot of potential money there).
And the thing is, even if those don’t add to the regular fedi/threadi verse, they still get people familiar with the platform and UI.
Agreed.
I think overall it’s not a bad suggestion, and yes Photon looks very sleek, and I have even contributed a language translation for it.
However, my main concern is: what would happen if the main dev loses interest and drops support of the interface? Lemmy backend may add a new feature that either breaks Photon, or Photon can’t make use of it until updated. If the development of this frontend could be more integrated with the Lemmy project team and funded, I would be less concerned.
While it would be best if lemmy devs can be more involved with photon, photon is still completely open source and the project is open to contributors, worst case hypothetical scenario of if the project ever gets abandoned it can always be forked, continued, or even better it can be handed by the current dev to someone who can continue to keep it alive.
If photon is widely used I see no reason the dev would just abandon it as it is rather than handing over the project to someone else who has already been contributing.
photon is still completely open source and the project is open to contributors, worst case hypothetical scenario of if the project ever gets abandoned it can always be forked, continued, or even better it can be handed by the current dev to someone who can continue to keep it alive.
Like the old.lemmy interface which hasn’t been updated since July?
I’m pro FOSS, but that’s not a silver bullet that magically attracts developers to work on projects. We’re still a 45k monthly active users community which relies on 5 devs which work on Lemmy, and maybe 2 on each of the alternatives (Mbin and Piefed).
The appeal for text-based forums just isn’t there anymore.
I completely agree.
@TheArstaInventor@lemmy.world Okay, you’re right, this actually looks better than the first screenshot you posted, I know that Lemmy already develops new UI tho, so I am not sure there’s really a point because it’s gonna change anyways?
How’s it look on mobile?
To be honest you are better off using 3rd party apps on mobile, web is mostly for desktop use and it’s best on desktop. That being said hopefully photon improves in coming updates on mobile as well.
To be honest you are better off using 3rd party apps on mobile
It’s a matter of preference: https://lemmy.world/post/22994355
Here’s a screenshot on Firefox.
It feels nicer to me, and following nested comments is less tedious without the compact color lives. My friends who don’t use Lemmy prefer I send Photon links when I can.
Good, but slow
Thanks for sharing. Looks like the designer still has more to do. See Mastodon web UI for mobile.
Clean. simple. Has my vote
