I think Google overestimates my Internet addiction and underestimates my steadfast hatred of advertisements.
Been on chrome for like 12 years. Syncs across my phone, everything. I will make the switch. I have been wondering when google was going to go evil. Why not 2023 like everything else on the internet?
Brother they went evil when they went publicly traded.
Dodge v. Ford is arguably the court case that proves all capitalist owned companies are legally required to not do the right thing. If Google was worker owned they would be a lot better.
Can you explain? Not familiar with this case
It’s one of a sequence of Supreme Court decisions (starting with Dartmouth College v Woodward and culminating most recently with Citizens United) that have led us down this path of corporate dystopia. For the full background, read this:
https://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/
2 years from now Firefox will have blocked adblockers, and there will be chromium based browsers (not Chrome) that won’t have them blocked.
I don’t see why people seem to be thinking a large company in a capitalistic landscape isn’t going to side with profits. Firefox will oppose it openly right now and take the new users and then move to the same without lube and without apologies.
Small browsers that still have some morals before going public will build browers off chromium because of its ease, and they will be able to exclude those blocks. Likely means we will be using different browsers every few years until something else changes.
Maybe I’m pessimistic here, but anyone who just moved from Reddit to Lemmy should know that Firefox isn’t the answer, it is another greed driven overlord.
Mimicking the tokens on the otherhand… those sites we will need to boycott if possible.
This is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.
Mozilla is a non-profit whose mission is to keep the internet freely available and privacy focused. See https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/who-we-are/
Firefox is built by open source developers who overwhelmingly have those same values. They have also been at this for many years now and have given us no real reason to doubt this commitment.
“The majority of Mozilla’s revenue is generated from search functionality included in our Firefox product through all major search partners including Google, Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, Amazon, Ebay and others.”
Everything you just said was optimistic as fuck.
750 employees, 826 million dollars in revenue a year.
So what do they choose. Fire 700 employees and go down to 26 mill revenue?
Edit: when the hivemind disperses and sees Firefox follow Google in using tokens and blocking ad blockers, you may not see it as one of the dumbest thing you’ve read before.
Makes no sense. Mozilla has no horse in the advertising race. But Google does. Almost all of Google’s profits are from ads. Ads keep the entire Alphabet house of cards afloat.
But not Mozilla. The largest connection there is them being paid for default lt search engine.
I read ~88% of its 800+ million dollar a year revenue comes from search engines.
Surely if that’s true it would have no impact on their decisions /s
I love this quote, it exactly sums up my sentiments.
I’m actually looking forward to it, because it will finally force me to go cold turkey on so many bullshit websites I don’t need in my life anyway, which I was never able to do on my own, because the addiction simply is there. But not as strong ans my hatred of fingerprinting and advertisements.
same, I think I might start reading more books again, I wanted to do that for a long time now but I never head “enough” time as I always spent so much time on the internet
For anyone who thinks they’re “stuck” with chrome, Firefox has gotten it’s shit together massively in the last few years.
Which is why Google’s next step is to effectively require chromium browsers for any websites wanting access to Google services and products.
Feels bad but I can’t condone this behaviour anymore and I feel ashamed that I haven’t seen the greed Google is capable of doing.
In the coming months I will do my best to migrate away from the Google system, even if I end up paying a tad more, maybe just in time to set up a home server for photos.
The Proton offering is a great alternative imo
Sounds like a good reason to stop using Google services and products. Some examples (note, I haven’t used some of these yet):
Search - DuckDuckGo
Email - ProtonMail
Drive - Dropbox
Sheets/Docs - Zoho
Some of these examples may not the best for everyone, but my point is that we do not have to let Google continue to push us around.
No, it sounds like a good reason for anti-trust regulators to make an injunction to stop Google from doing it.
It’s time for this fantasy bullshit notion that boycotts are worth a damn to end. In reality, it’s nothing but pro-corporate propaganda designed to make people think they’re “fighting the man” or whatever when they’re actually completely ineffective.
Now, don’t get me wrong: by all means, please feel free to quit using Google’s shit! That’s 100% a good thing and I fully encourage it! Just don’t delude yourself into thinking it represents even the slightest shred of a solution to the systemic problem Google’s anticompetitive strategies represent.
Sorry, our hyper partisan system has all but crippled regulation.
Regulars are too busy trying to get rid of encryption. A double edged sword in the situation with Google’s drm
It’s not you and me. It’s the websites. They’re not going to give up on having anyone with Chrome or using Google services from being able to access their sites. We’d end up with 2 Internets - one with Google and one without. And we all know that the one with Google will win.
If you like ChatGPT/care less about privacy, Bing is a great alternative.
or just use the open source open assistant io
Mozzilla be suing
Oh, but it will not be GOOGLE’s next step. I dont think it is the goal anyway. They only need to help site owners to sign up to their WEI thing, and there will be oh so many incentives. Google will be happy to license it out, or even make the toolkit fully opensource, to whoever wants to implement it in their browser, regardless of the engine used. Their obvious ultimate goal is to show the ads with no interruptions, which also happens to be the desire of most of the websites. And many websites will willingly implement it on their side, they do not really need too much encouragement.
There is no way anything like this would ever go through. Google’s own lawyers would quickly put a stop at this. It is known that Google sometimes has used features that for Firefox is problematic at least for YouTube, but it eventually is resolved by changes in FF
I dont understand when people think Firefox didn’t have their shit together. Been using it since 2006 and never had an issue. Ya’ll must be doing some serious browsing.
Been using since release. I never felt like I was making some kind of compromise by using it. Firefox always had their shit together from my experience.
Now, it’s on par with Chrome or better than (tradeoffs and personal preference), even for developing web apps. Firefox dev tools pull ahead of Chrome’s, then Chrome catches up and does something new and useful, then Firefox catches up, and so forth.
Firefox is good. It’s not like “I’m leaving Photoshop for the GIMP” kind of thing-- It’s like “I’m leaving Honda for Toyota.”
When chrome was released, Firefox felt bloated visually and slow. I switched to chrome with the initial release, then tried to come back to Firefox some years later. Still felt like it was slow.
Im back trying it again. The desktop browser seems to work alright, but I’m growing weary of the Android app.
It was really slow before Quantum happened and it’s smooth sailing ever since imo.
i remember it looking pretty sketchy and bad back in the day while chrome looked a lot nicer and user friendly
im a firefox user now i think chrome looks ugly compared to firefox nowadays
Been using FF since forever, never felt my experience was in any way slow compared to Chrome.
Now you can use desktop extensions on firefox mobile. They stepped up big time.
Did they lift the “only curated extensions” bullshit yet? I’m on Kiwi just to be able to run my own (unpacked) extensions that FF doesn’t let me do so.
Not yet but it’s coming very soon!
It’s already in nightly, and usually after nightly (if everything is fine/works well/etc) then it usually take 3-6months before it’s in mainline.
(iirc)
Firefox has never not had it’s shit together. It’s worked fine. I never understood people having issues with it, unless they were running like 50 extensions and a bunch of grease monkey scripts along with a crusty old profile with a massive cache of old data.
Meanwhile everyone is complaining about Chrome eating up all their RAM
Funnily enough Chromium actually consumes less RAM and is safer due to better sandboxing.
But neither of these concern the average user. However, the main difference between the browsers user may notice is how pages that are still loading behave. Firefox has the correct behavior. Aka waiting for vast majority of the elements to finish loading versus Chromium just going “if it’s rendered it’s intractable.” This unfortunately means that Firefox feels slower even though it’s actually faster.
Also, on behalf of the dark mode enjoyers, flashing white for a moment while launching, loading web pages or updating contents of a webpage is incredibly annoying. None of the Chromium browsers flash white on dark mode.
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I don’t think FF supports PWAs yet. I need to use Chromium to turn some sites like Discord into PWAs, as the desktop Linux version doesn’t screen share on Wayland. I also like having YTM as an app.
I believe that there is an extension for Firefox pwa support, but the Android version definitely supports pwas natively.
Yes, FF Android does, the extension for the desktop was very janky last time I used it. Mozilla just needs to support it natively IMO.
Works pretty well for me. They patched a lot of issues over the last year, so maybe give it another try.
Any idea if Firefox has a good translation extension? Like Chrome has Google translate that actively translates the sites you enter into English.
I live in a country that I don’t speak the language of, so I often need to use websites and translate them to English, which is why I’ve been stuck with Chrome.
There are 36 pages of translation extensions. The official one works without the cloud, which is pretty unique.
Personally I like the Immersive Translate extension. You can select your preferred translation engine (cloud based, but it supports many) and it shows you both the translated text and original text by alternating the paragraphs.
Sadly the only thing it’s lacking. Saw a couple of years ago they were looking at different technologies to implement it client side for privacy reasons.
Before post edit:
While looking for the source i found this:
Firefox Tests Privacy-Friendly Web Page TranslationsIt’s coming bby!
simple translate
This was also the best alternative I could find that seemed somewhat safe to use. Chromium browsers still are better at translate, but this seemed fine for my use case
There have been quite a few questionable decisions by Mozilla though, they have focused on some very weird things, not to mention scandals about management salaries (No idea how it is now). I really really hope they will not follow suite which honestly is not as far fetched as one could think.
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Firefox is the only browser on Android which still doesn’t have tabs. Wrangling multiple tabs on a tablet or foldable is just a pain on Firefox. Chrome on standard screen sizes even has tab groups. Until then, Firefox is a no go for me.
Uhh what? I’ve been using Firefox on Android for a looong time and there are tabs…
I’m speaking of an exposed tabs bar. Like all modern browsers have… except Firefox for Android. https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/tablet-amp-mobile-ui-tab-bar-for-android/idi-p/333
That’s fine but that isn’t what you said originally. Cheers
Enjoy your chromium experience with blank spaces and cookies popups then
Sure, I’m enjoying Vivaldi right now. 👍
Google can do whatever bullshit they want, I am still not letting go of adblock
I won’t use sites with WEI or adblock blockers
I won’t use chromium
You can lead the sheep to the spyware but you can’t force them to open it
They can pry adblockers from our cold dead hands. Then other people will make new ones.
Hm, can we make an anti-WEI movement? Have a bunch of websites block browsers using WEI, to force it away?
I know that won’t actually work, but a man can dream…
Donate to orgs like the EFF, Mozilla, and the FSF. Lobby your congressperson, your senators, and Biden to make the FTC to start doing its goddamn job again and enforce antitrust law.
The only real solution to this creeping megalomaniacal monopolistic behavior is legislative.
The real hope is the EU doing the right thing again and curb stomping the fuck out of google and hopefully the results spread across the world.
and then 75% of people can’t use your website and then people stop using it? That wouldn’t work
I mean, yeah, that’s why I said it wouldn’t work. Maybe if there was a website that was big enough that it would drive people to use non-WEI browsers if they couldn’t access it, but any website big enough to do that would also want WEI for ad venue.
The only big website that could even come close to doing this (they won’t, and if they did it wouldn’t work, but they’re big enough that the attempt would at least be noticed) is Wikipedia.
A slightly more “productive” (sort of) avenue of approach would be another large corporation for whom Google is a competitor, and who themselves doesn’t rely (as much) on advertising, interfering with WEI for their own self-interested reasons. Apple is the most likely candidate here, although again, I don’t think that’s likely to happen.
Sure hope you’re only using firefox since all the other browsers are chromium 🤣
Librewolf - desktop
Mull - mobile
Both firefox forks
My daily drivers! Tink! 🍻
Firefox have the same problem with the WEI filter, they also have to insert in Firefox the Google Token, same as any other, if he want to enter a Web with this fucking filter, anyway Mozilla will do this in FF precisely because several Google devs in Mozilla which are working on FF (Bad decision of Mozilla to have Google as main sponsor). Ad/trackerblocker are not the problem in Vivaldi, it has inbuild the needed filters (even those to block Cookie advices and adblocker warnings) and until now it has gutt out every Google intent with FloC, IdleAPI and others to control the Chromium base (remember, also Chromium is FOSS and customizable,above with first class devs Vivaldi has), also don’t have and don’t depends on extern inversors, but this fucking WEI DRM of websites is a greater problem and need to be avoided by ALL browser companies which are not Google in common, if there is not a genius which invent something to fake this Google Token. We’ll see.
Pihole goes brrrr
Spread the word brother. You’re doing lord’s work
please help - https://lemmy.ml/c/pihole
Plus hosts. I haven’t seen an ad in many years.
Or one could use dns.adguard
Many consumer routers have Ad blocking settings also. I know Asus and UniFi both have it.
Honestly just shocked how well Adblockalypse rolls off the tongue despite being the linguistic equivalent of three kids in a trench coat
I didn’t even try as I was sure I’d fail anyways. You’re right, it’s beautiful!
We’d like to take out a hefty loan
This is just more of the same. Every time some company thinks they’ve thrown enough money at the problem to DRM their way to success, somebody inevitably finds a fix, workaround, or bypass. Sometimes within a single day.
The main issue is that no-one in past, be it movie, music, or gaming industry, had the control which Google has with the web.
Web is 90% Chromium, Email is 60+% Gmail, Android is 70+% mobile worldwide, and Google already provides a lot of things like Google login, oAuth, etc. for free.
This means for a web dev, making a website WEI compatible shouldn’t be much of a hassle, and if they protest, Google can totally twist their arms to get us way.
WEI is dangerous because who’s behind it, not because what it is.
Not to mention AdSense and YouTube with whatever percentages they control of their respective markets. Google holds a lot of separate monopolies for just one company
Installs a adblock block blocker in Firefox…
I stopped using chrome as my primary browser years ago, and everyone should do the same.
Users when company who makes billions in profit off of ads modifies their browser to forcefully show more ads: 🤯😟
For real, why even use a Google product if you don’t have to
To install Graphene OS onto a Pixel Phone.
Stopped even looking at chrome since yrs. If they force their services even via chrome based browsers, I will dump their offerings as much as possible.
Google has kicked up such a revolt that I find it easy to convince everyone to use Firefox. If they think they can keep abusing their userbase like this, then they are in for a surprise.
Kiss my sexy Klingon ass, Google. I will forever battle ads.
Perhaps today is a good day to die!
Well said, we must never give up in the battle with ads.
As long as this doesn’t impact Firefox, I don’t care…
The problem is they have the lion’s share of users, so they can force websites to adhere to their policies and those sites will stop working in FF.
Google is the source of most of the funding to Firefox. Can go 100 to 0 anytime basically
Don’t they pay for firefox just so they don’t get hit with antitrusts?
I feel like that might trigger an anti-trust lawsuit somewhere.
We know how it will impact Firefox. They will be deeply concerned with WEI and extremely opposing it, but will implement it anyway because they are forced to do it.
It’s going to go exactly like this. Again.
With most competing browsers and the content industry embracing the W3C
EMEWEI specification, Mozilla has little choice but to implementEMEWEI as well so our users can continue to access all content they want to enjoy.And that is almost a direct quote.
Someone will most likely create a fork to remove this or an option to disable it will probably be baked into about:config. I don’t visit many sites that use DRM. When I do visit sites that require it, I’ll usually shift to Ungoogled Chromium or Brave.
Another one of my major fears with this change is whether Google will decide to make Chromium closed source and the implications it can have for other chromium based browsers.
Someone will most likely create a fork to remove this or an option to disable it will probably be baked into about:config.
But that’s the issue - if WEI passes, EVERY webpage will be able to use DRM. So, just like you have to switch to Chromium for DRMed media content, you will now have to switch for every website that has decided to implement it. So, your bank (because google is pushing it as a security feature), Youtube, Gmail… Just like you are not able to play DRM media, you won’t be able to visit DRMed websites without WEI API supported. It’s not something you turn off.
I’d be fine ditching youtube and gmail instead of having to use their shitty services with ads that lead to fake software that compromise your computers. Also my bank could try this, I would quickly turn into their most annoying customer also it could get to the point that unless you run a specific OS these pages won’t work and it would start being problematic legally for them. But until then I will pray everyday that the EU will take a hammer to WEI and break it’s legs.
It will impact Firefox.
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Refuse? Why?
According to my kids there’s a few flash game sites like y8 (perhaps not flash, IIRC that got killed off, but you get the idea) where you’re blocked for adblocking. As soon as I have white listed a site they’ll find a new one. So they have ublock origin installed, but permanently switched off.
And for some reason at least one kid actually likes youtube ads smh
Kids these days with their loving ads and what not. I came from a simpler time where we hated ads with a passion. :shakes fist:
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My 2 year old knows how to hit the okay button on the remote when the Skip ad badge turns white.
Everyone hates commericals.
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Yeah, who would’ve thought that the advertising company would modify their software so that it doesn’t work if you block the advertisements.
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Just because it’s built on Chromium doesn’t mean it has to follow Chromes rules. I know that’s hard for you Firefox fanboys to admit though. Google will die but there’s Edge, Opera, Brave, Vivaldi, and more.
But any browsers that use Chromium have to obey google even if they like it or not
No, Chromium is FOSS and every compay or dev is free to modify it to their like. Do you think that Windows with EDGE follow the rules of Google in this Chromium? Or the Chinese Opera? Vivaldi also don’t with its gutted Chromium, But Mozilla does, even with Google devs working on Firefox, because Google is its major sponsor. Sends Data to Alphabet and Google analytics, because Mozilla made the mistake of making a contract with the devil, losing independence by relying on outside investors, above the worst one.
I know that the Firefox fanboys are going to pepper me with downvotes now, because life is hard and so is the truth. The enemy is Google not the engine. Chromium folds to Google only if you use it as-is, without bothering to remove the GoogleAPIs it contains by default.
Google needs to sponsor Firefox because if Firefox goes away, they will get hit with the monopoly stick of the EU and get bigger restrictions.
Just like what happened with Internet Explorer.
So it is imperative to Google to keep Firefox afloat whatever the cost. And Firefox has to do nothing in return other than exist.
Mozilla does not send any data to Google, which you can not say from any of the Chromium-based browsers like Edge.
Edge the last one, in EDGE all telemetries go to MS, Towerdata (the worst one, which use even keyloggers) and other afiliate sites. Firefox need the money from Google, because to maintan its Infrastructure, servers, bread and water for its devs. etc
Don’t worry I’ll stop using AdBlock in Chrome.
Don’t worry, I’ll stop using chrome
Don’t worry, I stopped using chrome
Don’t worry, about a thing 🎶
When is it actually happening? Like, do we have a date?
I’ve actually looked at the papers published, and I don’t even understand how what they’re proposing could possibly cause adblock removal. Web Environment Integrity happens at a layer before things like adblock even loads. They’re completely independent processes. So the whole thing feels like misdirected fear imo.
So… to answer your question. Never.
You should fear though. This will give Google unprecedented control over the internet. Just not fear for adblock.
I don’t think post is talking about Web Environment Integrity. I instead think that it’s talking about Manifest v3 as the Chrome web store now blocks Manifest v2 extensions from being submitted - with support expected to be removed from Chrome in 2024.
