If the fediverse is to be adopted by the masses, the onboarding experience needs to change. A new user can’t be presented with a choice of instances as part of signing up or at least the process of making the choice needs to dumbed down a lot. I don’t know how or if this can be solved, I just know as someone involved in app development and UX that the current experience won’t work.

My mother would not know how to handle this paragraph: “Lemmy.world is one node in a network of hundreds of Lemmy instances. Before you sign up here, take a moment to explore all the instances at https://lemmyverse.net. You may find an instance with a regional or topical emphasis that speaks to you! Don’t worry about being left out; Lemmy instances are interconnected so users from each instance can participate with communities on other instances.”

For mass adoption it needs to be so simple that even non-techie older people can get through it without feeling like they might be doing something wrong.

  • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.ukEnglish
    1·
    6 days ago

    I’ve said it before but join-fediverse needs to ask a few simple questions to walk new users through a decision tree that offers them a couple of instances at the end of the process:

    • What service are you looking for?
    • Where are you located?
    • What languages do you speak?
    • What are your interests?

    This is just what I’d do if someone asked.me about joining the Fediverse and should help minimise decision paralysis.

  • rako@piefed.socialEnglish
    512·
    11 days ago

    I think everyone agrees that the fediverse experience is highly different from the centralized experience, but I disagree that the fediverse must necessarily hide what it is and reproduce such a centralized system.

    We’ve been fed the lie that tech is “easy” when it isn’t at all, but that is not a problem. Driving a 2 tons box around at hundreds of km/h takes some skill, some time to learn, but we don’t consider it too hard and skippable. I think we should put our efforts into simplifying the explanations, showing what it brings and what you lose, if we want more people to join (and I do)

    • AnonomousWolf@lemm.eeEnglish
      27·
      10 days ago

      We just need good defaults.

      Sure driving a 2 ton box around takes skill, but we should still make it as easy and smooth ride as possible. Add Power Steering, Climate Control, ABS, Navigation, a Radio etc.

      We shouldn’t give people a shitbox and expect them to enjoy driving it, especially when they’re used to better.

      If we don’t fix our bad UX, we’re going to filter out all non tech savvy people, and create a bubble.

      • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        91·
        10 days ago

        Default way to access the platform for the average potential news joiners is mobile

        Voyager, Thunder, Artic provide good defaults.

          • anon6789@lemmy.worldEnglish
            10·
            10 days ago

            What is wrong with apps? I get a lot of great features from the one I use that I don’t get with the web client.

            • multi-communities
            • user tagging
            • drafts
            • keyword blocking
            • themes
            • customizeable ui
            • etc
            • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
              43·
              10 days ago

              Most of them space things out in ways I don’t like and I hate gestures because I do things accidentally all the time. I can keyword block througb ublock origjn, although I do understand it is easier in most apps.

              User tagging is the only feature I feel like I’m missing on default mobile lemmy.

              I have also hit app fatigue. Just fucking sick to death of having a massive number of separate things that could be done through the browser.

              • anon6789@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                10 days ago

                Fair enough reasons. If you’re doing custom ublock filters and such, you’re likely able to tweak a lot to how you want it without any outside help from an app.

                I see in you rother comment to someone you haven’t tried Voyager in a year. I haven’t tried that one recently, but I will say even over the last 6-8 months, so many of these apps have really matured from where they were a year or so ago. Very significantly so IMO. I think Summit is really the sleeper champ of the apps for my use case, and the dev is super helpful and responsive.

                To each their own though. I love we have such great variety in UI here. At this point, there should be a couple viable options for near anyone.

                • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  21·
                  10 days ago

                  Yeah, I loved rif as the mobile app for reddit because reddit’s mobile site has always been trash and the rif experience was so much better. I’m glad there are options for those who want them, and the desire for user tagging might lead me to trying something out eventually.

    • Thatuserguy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      104·
      11 days ago

      Honestly to a certain extent I think being decentralized is somewhat beneficial. Perhaps it’s just the fact I’ve been visiting forums for like 20 years and feeling jaded, but I never liked that any knuckle dragger could easily make an account and act like an ass.

      It’s not a very high bar to clear to figure out how to sign up for lemmy, so if you can’t even figure that out, maybe it’s for the best to help prevent polluting the user pool. If you’re gonna be an ass, you should at least have to work for it.

      • Kichae@lemmy.caEnglish
        8·
        10 days ago

        Being decentralized and there being a significantly higher bar of entry aren’t intrinsically linked. The only things easier about Reddit compared to a phpBB forum are that Reddit a) generates you a username, and b) has a mobile app that only works with reddit.com. Name generators can be included in the signup process, but we can’t really drop having to point an app at a particular website in a distributed model.

        The fact that “Lemmy” isn’t a website or a single, definable place on the Internet is where the friction comes from. You can point to Reddit, and say you “saw x, y, and z on Reddit this morning” and it be a meaningful statement. You can’t substitute “Lemmy” into that sentence, though, because there isn’t a Lemmy.

        There’s a thousand Lemmys.

        • rako@piefed.socialEnglish
          6·
          10 days ago

          Spot on. Focusing on the software is the most tech-centered approach one can do, unfortunately tech people suck at make something excellent for non-tech people.

          People don’t like it but we need to put more focus on the fediverse as a network, say the AP word exactly once as to not confuse, but always operate in that state of mind.

          And tech people must build a web extension to do fediverse stuff while being somewhere on the web ! That’s what a User Agent is for, doing stuff for me

            • rako@piefed.socialEnglish
              1·
              9 days ago

              Browsers are not supposed to be only “html document viewers”. In spec parlance, they are supposed to be agents for doing whatever the user wants to do: that’s why they also offer facilities for passwords, for example.

              The fediverse is a bunch of web servers each with the accounts on it. When I am subscribed on instance A and go on an account on instance B, today the browser acts as a document viewer: I can see what the profile wants to show me, hopefully it has a button that properly redirects me but then I leave the context of the message I was looking at.

              What I want instead is for the browser itself to offer me fediverse actions: like, comment, reply, directly from where the content I’m interacting with is. I don’t expect browsers to do that soon so the next best thing is web extensions

    • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      5·
      10 days ago

      Good tech is easy an intuitive. Computers got popular after you could use a mouse and got a gui. Ipods dominated over the competition because of how dumb easy it was to use. Reddit was easy to move to from Digg because it was pretty much a clone in how it worked. Zero learning curve.

      Popular tech is almost always easy.

      • rako@piefed.socialEnglish
        1·
        10 days ago

        Thanks ! I’m active on the fediverse under other accounts, but I wanted to try the piefed experience as The Devs intended

  • cRazi_man@lemm.eeEnglish
    231·
    11 days ago

    I’m pretty techie and I’ve been here for months. I still don’t fully understand why it matters and how a different instance would have changed my experience. The fediverse is so fragmented, it would be dumb to stick to one instance. My app is always set to browse “all”. Everyone commenting seems to be from different instances. I’m certainly not going to start reading about different instances at signup when it presents the fact that you will be able to access all instances anyway. I picked randomly from one of the most popular choices. This whole process of a selection of an instance sounded good to software engineers, and sure this is how the technology fits together…but these are “back end” issues that I (and other normies) don’t care about at all. Users do not want to get into the weeds of how the back end works and it is certainly off putting.

  • .Donuts@lemmy.worldEnglish
    14·
    11 days ago

    This keeps coming back from time to time. imo we need an instance or method to sandbox newbies.

    My old comment:

    A custom feed that allows new members to see a variety of the best that Lemmy has to offer would be a good start. Then, when they are comfortable with the platform and its dynamics, they can customise it further, or swap the newbie feed for their own custom filter (which practically would come down to community subscriptions, I suppose?)

    Now instead of making this comment very long, I’ll put in an video game anology to make it a bit more digestible:

    What we need is a tutorial area that showcases all the different things that the Lemmy endgame has to offer. Creating memes, sharing news, the art of shitposting, being a lurker, actual discussions vs just scrolling to see the funnies: all these things are enjoyed by different types of people, and before they can reclass and enjoy the wild open world of Lemmy, it would be good for them to get comfortable with the controls and settings in a relative safe space.

  • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    131·
    11 days ago

    "Lemmy has 47k monthly active users

    Feel free if you have any questions"

    Edit: voyager link

  • Glitterkoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
    12·
    11 days ago

    I think they should stick to the “email provider” analogy. Whole paragraph should be something like:

    The only thing you need to start interacting with the Fediverse is an account with one of the many providers, just like with email! Providers are freely available across the globe: pick one that suits your location or interests best! You can start browsing the content of nearly the entire Fediverse from whatever provider you choose. Don’t worry, you can always create an account with a different provider later.

    You could add a sentence or two about where to find sensible defaults or link an article that explains the more subtle things.

    I think the emphasis on instances (and not naming them the more familiar providers) hinders adoption.

    • AnonomousWolf@lemm.eeEnglish
      72·
      10 days ago

      That’s a great analogy, but it’s too big a barrier for many, most give up before picking a instance, we should set good defaults and then the users can figure it out once they are used to the platform.

      • Glitterkoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        10 days ago

        Yes, very much in favor of sensible defaults for first timers. Most frontends/apps support multiple accounts anyway so changing/adding more later on really shouldn’t be a problem

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      2·
      10 days ago

      The difference is that the email provider you chose won’t make it so you can’t send an email to your friends because your providers don’t talk to one another.

      • Kichae@lemmy.caEnglish
        1·
        10 days ago

        No, that’s not true. The big email providers absolutely block smaller and personal hosts. There’s a whole system of features and options you need to install and support in order to get through the door, thanks to spammers.

      • Glitterkoe@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        10 days ago

        Well, it’s meant as an introductory paragraph. I think such a general paragraph should not go to those lengths since the vast majority won’t be facing that issue. Most large instances that you would recommend for first timers are federated well enough that at least the civilised part of Lemmy is very accessible. I think that with:

        • sensible defaults/suggestions
        • easy to understand intro
        • a help/link to a detailed article

        you cover enough for users who can’t be bothered, who want to be informed, and those who want to understand what’s going on behind the scenes.

  • TORFdot0@lemmy.worldEnglish
    132·
    10 days ago

    If people can’t understand what federation is then just send them directly to .world or lemm.ee or another big instance. If they have common sense then send them to join-lemmy and let them pick an instance. If someone is unable or unwilling to learn a very basic concept then they probably are not going to be a very good neighbor to have on the fediverse.

    I agree that the discoverability of communities needs improvement. I think that most instances should add starter pack like features with the most popular communities for people to choose to subscribe to when onboarding new users.

    In my opinion, finding the right and active communities to subscribe to is the biggest onboarding hurdle, not picking an instance. If picking an instance is a hurdle, that person wasn’t willing to try another site in the first place

  • Steve Dice@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    134·
    10 days ago

    lol not happening. Lemme just say it again: Lemmings are completely disconnected from reality. They can’t fathom that some people can’t or don’t want to spend time figuring that out. They will argue for days that “it’s not that hard” and people should just learn how to do it or stop being lazy or whatever before doing anything about it.

    Edit: I hadn’t even read the other comments in this thread before I typed this. There’s someone literally saying they want to gatekeep the fediverse from people without tech knowledge.

    • curry@programming.devEnglish
      3·
      10 days ago

      It’s the same with linux distros. One of the instances could get a critical mass of newbies but we will still have die-hards trying to gatekeep the entire fediverse.

  • ekZepp@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    10 days ago

    They should just add an automatic joining option based by location for the Lazy ass new users with the option to manually join any instances.

  • Landless2029@lemmy.worldEnglish
    4·
    10 days ago

    What if instances could be tagged with their focus?

    Then during an app user creation they could click a few “topics” and narrow down the choices to a much shorter list including member counts?

  • Richard@lemmy.worldEnglish
    62·
    11 days ago

    It just isn’t possible, and we should want to dumb down the introduction too much. The Fediverse is not a centralised medium, and to participate in it, its users should understand that, analogous to how you would instruct people before using motor vehicles. Some things are just essential and need to be taught. Not teaching the stuff doesn’t make it disappear. If some people cannot get behind the idea, then either find novel, intuitive ways of conveying it, or just accept that they cannot be a part of the Fediverse.

    • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      91·
      11 days ago

      I’ve seen people using Voyager for a year and not even knowing what their instance is. They seem content, vote, post just like on Reddit.

      People can drive a car without knowing what type of engine it is. They turn the wheel, it turns.

      • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
        33·
        10 days ago

        I’m not sure your car analogy is a great one since most drivers are awful, don’t respect the vehicle nor the responsibility they carry by piloting one, and tens of thousands of people die in car accidents every year. lol

        Maybe we shouldn’t let any idiot drive a car…

        • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
          31·
          10 days ago

          Also everyone wants different driving experiences, the driving experience varies widely from country to country and state/province to state/province, and everyone wants different features and capabilities in their cars.

          Cars are a great comparison, although there are also people who don’t drive for a wide variety of reasons…

  • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
    51·
    11 days ago

    Do we want ‘mass adoption’? and if so, why? and what would that look like, if we had it? how would we know that we had got it, and what good would the getting do us?

    • AnonomousWolf@lemm.eeEnglish
      52·
      10 days ago

      Whether or not we want mass adoption I can’t say, but what we don’t want is to have a filter that only tech savvy people get past.

      We want all kinds of people on Lemmy, not just tech savvy people that push through the bad UX

  • nutomic@lemmy.mlEnglish
    4·
    10 days ago

    You’re welcome to improve the text. That said the site is in large part aimed at instance admins and technical people. For normal users it’s better to link them directly to a specific instance.

  • RobotToaster@mander.xyzEnglish
    41·
    11 days ago

    If what instance you chose truly didn’t matter this wouldn’t be as big of an issue. Unfortunately defederation causes a tangled mess of netsplits.

  • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    3·
    10 days ago

    Your mother would ask you what the hell an “instance” was and then think that picking one meant she couldn’t look at posts from any others.