Recently joined and started a community for people who want to move away from Lemmy and want to see Lemmy loosen its stranglehold on the threadiverse, if that seems like something interesting to you consider checking out !cancel_lemmy@piefed.social

  • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
    4·
    6 days ago

    Fwiw, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

    I for one am extremely happy to see PieFed flourish, and one of my chief reasons to move to it 8 months ago was specifically to block lemmy.ml.

    That said, I have no desire to “cancel” anyone at all - and the Lemmy devs are worthy of respect for their accomplishments, even as they also deserve some criticisms for the way that they run their instance.

    I love how the future allows PieFed and Lemmy - and Mbin, nodebb, flarum, friendica, mastodon, pixelfed, etc. - to exist altogether in the Fediverse, without needing any of the others to die out. I even maintain accounts on both PieFed and Lemmy instances, as each currently offers features that the other lacks.

    (also, if some of the lemmy instances were to be cancelled, then all of their users would come over to here… think about that for a moment, is that a desirable outcome to you? :-P)

  • underline960@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    32·
    9 days ago

    You can sell me on Piefed without trying to cancel Lemmy out of nowhere.

    How does it compare to mbin as a Lemmy alternative?

  • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
    162·
    9 days ago

    I’ve always thought it was really weird and really dumb sentiment to want to cancel Lemmy, as an Open source software. It’s like people think they need to endorse the developers’ views to use Lemmy, or pay them money to use the software. But like that’s really dumb. Lemmy is free and opensource software, the developers have no say in who uses it, it’s also opensource meaning anyone can fork it. So this position just seems weird and reactionary.

    One thing that really makes me reluctant about the future of piefed is the fact that it runs on Python. Great for tinkering but it likely won’t scale well, and Python is famous for breaking backwards compatibility. So expect this project to be hosed when Python 4 or 5 comes out and breaks compatibility or syntax with the previous version. I saw this happen with Kodi and other platforms with Python Based plugins, and it’ll most definitely happen again, not to say it can’t happen with something like Rust or Go, but these compiled languages are designed for big projects, python is just one-off scripts, so the ones maintaining languages like Rust, Go, C++ work a bit harder to keep them as functionally compatible as possible so big projects aren’t crippled and trashed by an update.

    Anyway that’s my opinion on this whole thing, I don’t believe Piefed is the future, and I do not think Instance Admins should jump at the chance to abandon Lemmy. Maybe for sublinks if it ever comes out, but not for piefed.

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      111·
      9 days ago

      Mate,you have a 20 year old perception of python. “good for tinkering”, Cheezus…

      • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
        41·
        9 days ago

        Are you denying the problem of Backwards compatibility with python versions? It was and still is a big problem today. I’m still seeing the affects of that though many communities. I don’t really think it’s only good for tinkering but I know its developers clearly do, otherwise they wouldn’t have subjected us to the transition from python 2.7 to python 3 and the fallout that followed, and people wouldn’t have been so eager to comply with them dropping python 2.7 support in all their python integrated envionments before you could say bitrot.

        Yeah somehow that doesn’t give me much confidence for the future.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          71·
          9 days ago

          Python 2 transition took decades and EOL was almost a decade ago, get over it. If you still want to use it, use it!

          I don’t understand this approach at all. Software evolves and sometimes you need breaking changes. Godot did it as well, but I guess that “great for tinkering” as well.

          It fills me with confidence that the language is the most widely used in the world and is not afraid to do what must be done instead of growing stale and unwieldly so that lazy developers don’t learn anything new.

          • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            9 days ago

            Yes I don’t think that demolishing whole ecosystems is a good thing. I think that it’s a shitty mentality of wanting shiny and new shit and fixing what isn’t broken. I am a believer in legacy support and I find it weird and concerning to see and hear people complain about it. You do realize that if Python had been the Web’s scripting engine instead of JS, a lot of Websites would’ve been, and still would be trashed and unusable due to said breaking changes with zero regard for legacy support. Thankfully that wasn’t the case, but it does go to show that legacy support and backwards compatibility is important.

              • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                20 hours ago

                I mean, maybe? I don’t know, I don’t live in that mirror universe where python supplanted JS. Though considering how hard the push was to abandon and burn down python2, I have a feeling even if it was a web scripting language the same push would’ve happened and it would’ve just broken a lot more stuff since you know “sECuRiTY”.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              61·
              9 days ago

              Again, python 2 still exists. nothing would be “trashed”. If you want backwards compatibility just keep using python2. We clearly don’t see things the same way, but given that python is the most popular languge in the world, I’m happy most see it my way.

    • Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.caEnglish
      241·
      9 days ago

      People can always find problems if they look hard enough, lol. There are probably some legitimate complaints about Lemmy, but nothing is perfect. I find their messaging weird though. Like, you can be pro Piefed without having to be anti Lemmy. Seems needlessly combative to me.

      • Eldritch@lemmy.worldEnglish
        125·
        9 days ago

        The problems with the Lemmy developers though is plain on the face of it. Problematic political and social positions. And then demanding that donations must go towards furthering those problematic political and social positions. Because they think they found this one weird trick that nobody can argue with. Their Flagship server is the political server. It’s not lemmy.org after all.

        Not to mention that the admins of the server moderate more than most the moderators on the server. There is no free speech. It doesn’t matter how moderate or respectful you are. If you go against the narrative you will be banned.

        Development wise they are also vanguard minded. Does the userbase want features the devs aren’t working on? That’s too bad. The devs are going to work on what they want to work on. Whether or not that’s a good thing. Which can sometimes it can be. It also has led to a number of people reluctant to contribute. The childish cliquesh behavior.

        You’re not always going to agree with the politics and views of the people who write the software you use. And that is okay. But when they mix the two it’s not wrong to have issues with that.

        • remotelove@lemmy.caEnglish
          91·
          9 days ago

          I think you nailed it. For me personally, if I move to PieFed, it’s not because I want to “hurt” the devs, it’s because I really don’t want to be part of what they stand for.

          • Eldritch@lemmy.worldEnglish
            42·
            9 days ago

            That and it speaks to a lack of maturity and professionalism which doesn’t inspire confidence in the project.

            There’s no need to hurt the devs for sure though. They do that well enough on their own.

        • Alabaster_Mango@lemmy.caEnglish
          71·
          9 days ago

          I keep forgetting about the dev issues, lol. Deffo legitimate problems one might have with a software for sure. I don’t run into that a lot over here on Lemmy.ca though, which is nice.

          I stand by my assessment though. It’s still weird to me to promote one thing by shooting down another. Feels too much like politics in North America to me. They could have made a “Support Piefed” community instead.

          • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
            9·
            9 days ago

            I agree, this whole idea of canceling Lemmy is weird and just feels reactionary. Also Piefed running on Python doesn’t seem like something that can scale well nor something that can be perpetually worked on for the long haul without running into issues with new python releases and compatibility with them.

            • irelephant [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              31·
              6 days ago

              Piefed being written in python means nothing.
              Instagram and threads (and parts of the clusterfuck that is facebook) are written in python and seem to have scaled fine.

              Performance is negligable – the main bottleneck is I/O.
              If a new python release breaks compatibility, Piefed can keep using the old version of python.

              • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                17 hours ago

                Instagram and threads (and parts of the clusterfuck that is facebook) are written in python and seem to have scaled fine.

                How much of them? Parts being made in python isn’t the same as your whole backend being written in 90% or nothing but python. But I guess we’ll see.

                If a new python release breaks compatibility, Piefed can keep using the old version of python.

                Technically yes, though I wonder how long that would last if the next jump is anything like the last. I can already imagine the people bitching about “SeCUriTy” just like many were when people talked about maintaining backwards compatibility or keeping python2 support in the days of the transition to python3.

    • viking@infosec.pubEnglish
      76·
      9 days ago

      The developers of Lemmy also run lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml, the former being a hardcore communist anti-everything delusional conspiracy crapshoot of a platform, the latter a tiny bit more relaxed, but moderated/administered by a bunch of dicks that are essentially also tankies (= hardcore leftists) and Russia fans/apologists.

      They (the devs) recently asked for funding to support their work, and in doing so, disclosed that part of the funding would be used to run those two instances, thus giving users no alternative to support without cross-financing extremism.

      Piefed is developed independently and has none of those links to moronic ideologies.

      Piefed as a platform uses the same underlying protocol as lemmy, mastodon, etc. (Activity Hub), so users can seamlessly interact with one another.

    • TheSaltyPenguin@piefed.socialOPEnglish
      49·
      9 days ago

      Because Lemmy’s Devs have extremely problematic positions and Lemmy as a software is severely lacking in features which other platforms like Piefed have. Lemmy is just a poor experience, but also Lemmy fosters dependency due to it’s widespread use, meaning it’s harder for people and servers to branch out into other platforms.

  • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    13·
    9 days ago

    I like Piefed, it’s my daily driver, but cancelling Lemmy is probably too much.

    The majority of people still haven’t moved from !privacy@lemmy.ml (!privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) or !linux@lemmy.ml (!linux@programming.dev ), so trying to get them to switch platform based on “cancelling” isn’t productive.

    If you want to advocate for your platform, explain what features Piefed has compared to Lemmy (https://join.piefed.social/features/) instead.

  • WatDabney@piefed.socialEnglish
    93·
    8 days ago

    My thought is that Piefed is too eager to curate my experience and too heavily promoted of late to be believably organic

    It reeks of an organized, astroturfed attempt to effectively centralize the fediverse.

    • irelephant [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      51·
      6 days ago

      too heavily promoted of late to be believeably organic

      No. Its promoted because of its fast development and extra features.

      Piefed is decentralised itself.

    • MoreZombies@lemm.eeEnglish
      3·
      8 days ago

      I thought anyone could create a Piefed instance, and it can be interacted with by both mbin and Lemmy?

      • WatDabney@piefed.socialEnglish
        3·
        8 days ago

        i presume you’re questioning the assertion that it seems like an attempt to effectively centralize the fediverse?

        Yes - anyone is free to start an instance.

        However, a new instance is not going to get any communities on Piefed’s preset list of subscrptions, nor is any community which the Piefed devs, for whatever reason, disapprove of or oppose or simply dislike. And that means that if Piefed can gain enough users (by, for instance, astroturfing the appearance of greater popularity than it in fact currently enjoys), then it will be able to effectively gatekeep the fediverse - to undermine or advance existing instances and create an insurmountable barrier to entry for new instances, by granting or withholding positions on its list of communities to which users are automatically subscribed.

        Additionally, it seeks to do essentially the same thing to individual users, by instituting a karma system (something that the rest of the fediverse has not coincidentally avoided, since it was and is so easily and often abused on Reddit) and by automatically collapsing responses with 10 or more downvotes (it would be child’s play to use bots to deal out ten downvotes to whoever one pleased). Again, if it can attract enough users, it will then have enough clout to effectively control the narrative not just in its own communities, but throughout the fediverse.

        And those potentialities, in combination with the fact that Piefed has gone from being rarely if ever even mentioned at all to, in just the last few days, being mentioned hundreds if not thousands of times a day in threads on virtually any topic, makes me highly suspicious.

        • cm0002@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          8 days ago

          Piefed has gone from being rarely if ever even mentioned at all to, in just the last few days, being mentioned hundreds if not thousands of times a day in threads on virtually any topic, makes me highly suspicious.

          You make interesting points, but for this specific thing, it almost certainly has to do with the .ee shutdown which was announced just a few days ago, apparently PieFed has fantastic comm transfer tooling so that’s why it’s probably been exploding in discussions since .ee has a number of large comms that are trying to figure out their next steps

          • WatDabney@piefed.socialEnglish
            31·
            8 days ago

            That undoubtedly had some effect.

            But then, look at this thread for a particularly egregious counterexample.

        • MoreZombies@lemm.eeEnglish
          3·
          8 days ago

          So I understand, if I created my own instance of Piefed, the original developers have backdoor access to manage my communities?

    • Draconic NEO@lemmy.worldEnglish
      41·
      8 days ago

      I don’t really agree that it’s an attempt to centralize the fediverse but I do think that the push and praise for it feels extremely unnatural, especially how people are bragging about liking and wanting the reputational features of it, and being able to hide the modlog. Like dude those are the biggest reasons people left Reddit, and now suddenly “people” are just going gaga for those same anti-features. That seems more than fishy to me…

      • WatDabney@piefed.socialEnglish
        81·
        8 days ago

        The reputational anti-features are part of what makes me suspicious. I agree entirely with your impression of it.

        And the unnatural and extremely sudden increase in mentions - over just the last week or so, it’s gone from Piefed almost never being mentioned anywhere to it being mentioned in hundreds if not thousands of threads a day. That also makes me suspicious.

        The other thing though is Piefed’s automated subscription feature, which, if it gains enough clout, will allow it to effectively promote or undermine, as the devs prefer, communities or even entire instances, and to erect a barrier to entry for new communities and new instances, simply by granting or withholding inclusion on its subscription lists. That’s the primary thing that triggers my suspicion.

        Well - that and the fact that aside from anti-features like reputation and automated subscriptions, I don’t see anything notable about the software, and to the degree that it differs from lemmy or mbin, it seems if anything to be inferior, which makes the sudden flood of praise just that much more suspicious.

        • Skavau@piefed.socialEnglish
          41·
          7 days ago

          And the unnatural and extremely sudden increase in mentions - over just the last week or so, it’s gone from Piefed almost never being mentioned anywhere to it being mentioned in hundreds if not thousands of threads a day. That also makes me suspicious.

          It was gaining momentum anyway, but the big reason was the collapse of lemm.ee - which held many medium-sized communities having to find a new home. A lot (not all) chose piefed.

        • Blaze (he/him) @lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          2·
          8 days ago

          , I don’t see anything notable about the software, and to the degree that it differs from lemmy or mbin,

          • consolidated comment view for all crossposts
          • actual instance blocking
          • multicommunities
          • keyword filters
  • bonjour@mander.xyzEnglish
    56·
    9 days ago

    Are you ashamed of your post history or why did you create a new account for this noble cause?