Page not found – Rust in Peace
blogs.gnome.org

This is a truly WTF moment about messed up responses to X11 session removal in Gnome.

2 weeks ago I published a blogpost about the upcoming plans of GNOME 49 and the eventual removal of the X11 session. Since then, instead of looking at feedback, bugs and issues related to the topic, we all collectively had to deal with the following, and I am not exaggerating one bit:

  • Fascists and Nazis
  • Wild Conspiracy Theories that make Qanon jealous
  • “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session
  • A culture war where Wayland is Gay, and X11 is the glorious past they stole from you

In my wildest dreams I could have never made this shit up. You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.

  • CodexArcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    637·
    12 days ago

    There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here. Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.

    NAZI! DEVS! FUCK! OFF! 💯

    • LiveLM@lemmy.zipEnglish
      26·
      11 days ago

      Can confirm, having my different refresh rate monitors play nice with each other is extremely homosexual.

    • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
      81·
      11 days ago

      … Does this imply that Wayland has a penis?

      Asking… For science, or something, I dunno what is going on.

    • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
      3·
      11 days ago

      X11 is on/under your ass?
      Maybe they were both gay all along, that’s why we enjoy their sessions so much.

  • the_wiz@feddit.org
    40·
    11 days ago

    X11 AND Wayland are for degenerates, a distraction at best but mostly just something that wastes CPU cycles and RAM.

    THE FUTURE IS TERMINAL!

      • the_wiz@feddit.org
        6·
        11 days ago

        Thank you for this new rabbit hole that thanks to my pathological curiosity for software on the far side of normalcy i now HAVE to explore and waste time i should spend working on a project 😜

        • pfr@lemmy.sdf.org
          3·
          11 days ago

          Oh, your welcome. It’s a great rabbit hole. I remember venturing down it for the first time some years ago. I’ve since been able to build arcan from source and get pipeworld working on void linux. It’s not daily drivable yet, (not for me at least) but it works, and it’s cool as fuck.

          • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
            1·
            11 days ago

            Gotta say, his latest post, Sunsetting Cursed Terminal Emulation, really reminded me of some programming woes you can read from The Unix Haters’ Handbook.

            terminal emulators aren’t leaky abstractions, they’re quite literally the abstraction being leaked :-D.
            \x64k@lobste.rs

    • Victor@lemmy.world
      51·
      12 days ago

      switch from Gnome to a cooler window manager 🤷

      I think that’s easier for us to say, who actually do use something cooler. But for those whose workflow is messed up by this, I understand why they’re upset. But yeah, it’s time to move into the future, for real. High time.

        • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          11 days ago

          What? The last major change to the gnome workflow was going from vertical to horizontal workspaces, and that was several years ago.

          • chortle_tortle@mander.xyz
            41·
            11 days ago

            Mostly just trash talking how so much basic functionality is in add-ons that break frequently with updates.

            • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              10 days ago

              You can disable version checking and have them run if you want to, although that’s probably not advisable.

          • Victor@lemmy.world
            41·
            11 days ago

            going from vertical to horizontal workspaces

            Do you mean vice versa? Or did they go back to horizontal again? 😅

              • Victor@lemmy.world
                2·
                10 days ago

                Oh wow, so they did. I have missed that 😅 I’ve been using i3 for like the last 10–15 years. Gnome being back to horizontal workspaces again like in GNOME 2 is wild to me. It’s a great change!

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    254·
    11 days ago

    I do think ditching X11 is still slightly premature. For all its more modern features, there’s still a lot that Wayland either hasn’t implemented yet or “can’t do” because of its “security model.”

    • XenGi@feddit.orgEnglish
      42·
      11 days ago

      Can you name something that’s missing? Because I can’t think of anything relevant.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            10 days ago

            It’s roughly equivalent to AutoHotKey on Windows. It’s an application that can intercept key combos or even typed strings and…do basically anything. Let’s say you type a certain phrase a lot, you could come up with an abbreviation so that when you type an abbreviation it deletes the abbreviation and inserts the big thing you type. Or maybe you want it to fire when you press ALT+ y. Or, maybe you want it to do something programmatic, like insert the date and time. Or do anything you can get Python to do.

            This apparently does not work on Wayland systems, something about the way it accessed keystrokes in X11 isn’t open in Wayland for security concerns.

            • XenGi@feddit.orgEnglish
              5·
              10 days ago

              Honestly that sounds like a security nightmare and its probably a good thing that doesn’t work anymore.

              • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                11·
                9 days ago

                Honestly if pressing some buttons to get the computer to do something you programmed it to do is a “security nightmare” I think we should probably just give up, tear down the electric grid and go back to dying of smallpox at 17 like nature intended.

            • hoppolito@mander.xyzEnglish
              4·
              10 days ago

              I don’t know autokey, so I can’t speak to whether they replace all its functionality but there are ‘xdotool-like’ programs for Wayland. So it is at least very possible to replace functionality like the latter you mentioned (press button/button combination -> do an action, like inserting date/start a program/do something programmatic). Some examples I know are:

      • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
        English
        71·
        11 days ago

        Do we have a widely adopted aolution yet for screensharing, global shortcuts, and window position restoration?

        • XenGi@feddit.orgEnglish
          8·
          11 days ago

          Screen sharing under gnome and KDE just works. Even in sway that’s solved for quite a while now. I would call that widely adopted. I haven’t encountered the other two as problems yet. Global shortcuts work in my sway session. I would expect nothing else from gnome and KDE. Window position restoration is also a standard feature in sway AFAIK. Not sure if gnome or KDE do it.

      • swelter_spark@reddthat.comEnglish
        94·
        11 days ago

        I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos and XFCE Wayland.

        Color pickers, screenshot, and window recording/streaming all don’t seem to work or require Wayland-only packages that are extremely primitive in features and use.

        Alt+tabbing out of games, whether fullscreen or windowed, also doesn’t seem to work.

        Wallpapers and cursors installed to the standard location where the distro installs all of them don’t seem to be usable. I have to manually copy them to somewhere in the home directory in order to use them.

        Screensavers seem to be unusable except for one port of xscreensavers.

        I know OpenSUSE plans to eliminate x11, so I’m trying to get used to Wayland, but I do hope it’s more developed before I have to use it full time.

        • 90s_hacker@reddthat.com
          7·
          10 days ago

          tbf, aren’t both of those still in early stages? I don’t think I’ve had any issues with those on KDE wayland

        • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          9 days ago

          I"ve been experimenting with both Cosmos [I’m assuming you mean Cosmic, System76’s upcoming DE?] and XFCE Wayland.

          So the only Wayland implementations you’ve tried are ones in Alpha or Beta?

          Tbh that seems like an unfair comparison. You’re comparing alpha and beta software to production-ready software, and complaining about it not being as stable.

          Wayland is a lot more mature on Gnome or Plasma. I started using Wayland on Gnome in 2019, and aside from when I briefly tested with an Nvidia card a number of years ago, the only issue I’ve ever had was screen sharing on discord, which was ‘Discord are pathologically against updating their electron version’ issue, not a Wayland issue.

  • ViatorOmnium@piefed.socialEnglish
    16·
    12 days ago

    Is it so surprising that the mindset that makes people unable to face changes in one area of their lives also makes them unable to face changes in other areas?

  • M. Orange@beehaw.org
    7·
    10 days ago

    On the one hand, the guy who wrote this blog post is kinda unhinged.

    On the other hand, I’m kinda living for it and agree with his views.

    So really it all evens out in the end.

  • Rusty Shackleford@programming.devEnglish
    6·
    12 days ago

    I use X11 over Wayland on KDE Neon for RustDesk compatibility. The Wayland support for that application is still in Beta from what I understand.

    Are there other reasons why I should keep X11? I am on AMD Ryzen 9 5950X paired with a RTX 3090 FE on 570-open drivers, for reference.

    • pohart@programming.dev
      3·
      11 days ago

      I’m fairly sure there’s no way to do remote Wayland from Windows, yet without X11. But what do I know? I’m running ububtu 22.04 still

      • HER0@beehaw.org
        2·
        10 days ago

        Remote Wayland, no, as it isn’t network transparent like X11 is. You can still do remote desktops, though, usually with RDP or VNC. On the popular modern toolkits, this works out about the same, since drawing applications through X11 is not so common anymore.

      • underscores@lemmy.zipEnglish
        2·
        11 days ago

        I know there’s dozen ways to screen share but I mostly care about discord and discord screen sharing doesn’t work on Linux, curiously enough if you get obs to create a virtual camera of whatever you want to stream it will stream it flawlessly. Use the default way of streaming anything and it craps out

      • urandom@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        11 days ago

        I don’t know of any screen sharing issues tbh. I’ve unfortunately had to share my screen through google meet for more than a year now :(

  • U@piefed.socialaragonés
    63·
    12 days ago

    I made peace with this forced transition. I went from using one of the available standards (X11) to retrocomputing (X11).

    I tried Wayland and what a mess… But I get it. Everything changes, and tech moves on.

    As for me and my needs, as long as X11 does its job, I’ll keep on using it.

    I’ve followed some of the discussions around the need to have a more modern framework for current graphical systems. I’m pretty confident devs have their hearts and minds in the right place. It’s just that Wayland doesn’t work for me.

  • Ulrich@feddit.orgEnglish
    86·
    11 days ago

    Link is dead

    I am not exaggerating one bit:

    Wish I could believe you but I honestly don’t believe anyone who says this anymore.

  • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
    19·
    10 days ago

    If only this wonderful opinion were published someplace else than blogs.gnome.org and by someone who’s not a GNOME developer who are expected to lie by now.

    X11 is not glorious past, it just makes sense.

    Of course, when you freeze it in a certain state, only doing bug fixes, you can’t utilize its modularity and extensibility to fix problems that can be fixed in an alternative with actual development happening. But it appears the solution of finally making a fork has been found.

    I welcome anyone to find fascism, nazism, conspiracy theories (if that’s about said freeze and refusal to break backwards compatibility in some things, then, well, that’s a fact visible for anyone on the web) here.

    “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session

    So for actual complaints they just say it’s trolling and put quotes. That’s not a valid response.

    You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.

    Maybe snowflake GNOME devs need that? I don’t use GNOME, so - won’t really feel the loss.