I hope its all busted or out of date stuff to begin with otherwise its as stupid as the book burning.
misguided. people should be against corporations as they are the ones who make technology a problem.
I would have never guessed the iPad babies would turn on their cyber nannies. Good on you, kiddos.
Paywalled article. Pretty fucking apt.
you can use archive.today to unpaywall it
Strange, it’s not paywalled for me. Does this community allows to paste whole articles?
Generally, don’t post the text, post an archive link. You can create such links by appending ‘archive.ph/’ to the front of the original url, then opening the link in your browser.
I did not know you could archive a link like that. Thanks for the pro tip!
Thanks for the advice! Here’s the archive then: https://archive.ph/sDvch.
Nice! It’ll probably also be helpful to most readers if you edit it into the main post
Done :-)
I’m a fan of taking back control over my tech, not giving up control. They’re treating it like there’s no other option.
If you listen between the lines we are given by tech companies, right now there is no other option.
Its hard to believe that someone would be aware enough to go to something like this, while not being aware of the existence of alternative solutions that give you more control. But these people do definitely exist. At the same time i think that this group of people is probably quite diverse with some being complete hardliners that want zero tech while others are just against the kind that is extremely damaging to society and the world.
I dunno.
Multiple people in my friend group are aware of the issues with big tech companies.
But the second you bring up FOSS with them, or Linux gets mentioned, they either disengage completely or get angry. One of these people heads an IT department.
I don’t know why they react that way. The weird part is, they’ll happily use FOSS software like VLC or something Minecraft launcher. The second you say it’s FOSS they actually seem less into the software, not more.
This comment makes me sad. But I also feel like I’ve seen this. I honestly don’t know where the hate for FOSS comes from. Has this person that hates FOSS ever explained their hatred? Genuinely curious how someone could hate options.
I think it’s a product of having grown up during the time when accessing commercial applications was about as easy as accessing the free ones at a time where many of the free ones were just pale imitations. And before the enshitification had really gotten going.
Yeah i know these creatures exist, but i will never understand them. Im always maximally hyped when i see good FOSS alternatives even if they have some minor drawbacks. For example this beautiful app which does OCR and translation completely offline in one app https://f-droid.org/en/packages/dev.davidv.translator/
It’s the same with vegan food
I think few open source projects enjoy the user satisfaction that VLC does. Even Linux itself is not as friendly to its users.
VLC (by cause or by effect?) also doesn’t have evangelists trying to push it. It doesn’t need them. Contrarianism is a strong motivator in today’s culture.
VLC definitely has evangelists, they have just become the dominant culture so you don’t really notice it. They don’t have an advertising budget, it got popular through word of mouth.
I think Linux enthusiasts appear more evangelical because of the deep entrenchment of Windows; you are noticing the push back and debate, whereas with VLC you just see people recommending it and people being grateful for the recommendation.
Angry about what specifically?
For every second you have your headphones in on the train, you’re not talking to anybody and you’re not taking in the world. For every one of those seconds, how much of your life do you let pass by?" one man asked.
Lmao what the fuck
Yeah that’s a bit much tbh. Personally I find the train to be way too loud usually. Other people talking, train noises, maybe a screaming baby or something. I’ll just listen to some music and stare out of the window (if it isn’t dark).
Sounds like a pretty legitimate question.
Well I consider talking to strangers in public a waste of time, so what now?
Its a call to be present.
There is nothing inherently wrong with wearing headphones on the train, but ask yourself why you’re doing it.
If you put on Headphones to keep people from talking to you, you’re making the choice to opt out of the human experience.?Make that choice every day on a 45 minute commute and after only a week 7.5 hours where you’ve opted out of chance encounter, conversation, possibly meeting a new friend or partner. It might not be a bad idea to make the choice to NOT disconnect, actively choosing to engage in the world around us makes a huge difference in how we percieve it, and how it percieves us.
An experiment I’d suggest, if you’re the type to default to using your phone as an idle activity:
Next time you’re idle and get the urge to pull out your phone, instead look around you and find the most interesting thing you can see. Why is it interesting? Is there anything abnormal about it? Is it’s place significant? Take that and note it in your mind, have a conversation with a coworker about it later. Then take note, how did this pointless conversation make me feel?
Being present by choice, especially if done often, will create chances to engage with the World, and its inhabitants.
The other day someone told me life was boring. Put the phone down, make more than the 2 meter cone you can see from around your phone visible, and you’ll find the World has a lot of engagement to offer.
Sometimes I leave my house to to other things that besides “being social” I can only imagine horror when trying to get my errands done but all kinds of people everywhere I go keep trying to talk to me I mean I get, maybe a bit more eye contact and general nods to acknowledge people’s existence, but when I go out to be social vs when I don’t are separate things and I think that’s okay
Great if your culture encourages that I guess? I do that in East Asia and I’ll get weird stares from everyone. And they’ll ask you to mind your own business which, I agree. It’s basic respect here to not talk on the train.
I don’t any randos talking to me on the train. Commute is worse enough without people trying to “connect with me” during it.
Lots of research shows that random social interactions are far more enjoyable than people expect them to be.
It’s like 90% drunk homeless people that talk to you on trains and buses though. It gets tiring.
If I want chance encounters with sober people, I’ll go to the bar. I mean eventually the people there get drunk too, but it’s a nice “5 hours and 10 beers” drunk not “what month and/or year is it” drunk.
I’m the guy who takes a shot at a random conversation on the plane.
Doesn’t often turn into anything, but sometimes it’s a nice little glimpse into humanity.
Guess I don’t know what trains you’re on that are so full of the drunk and homeless, but that sounds like a problem in its own right.
I once took an overnight flight from the west coast to the east coast. The flight wasn’t very crowded and I intentionally picked a seat away from other ocupied seats.
I get on the plane, as I’m warking back to my seat I notice there’s entire rows that are empty. So instead of picking a seat in an open row, and this. fucking. guy. picked the window seat closest to my aisle seat, and he talked for most of the flight. In hindsight I should have just sat somewhere else when I first noticed him.
Heh yeah that’s rough.
Baffling that you didn’t switch seats though.
Leave me alone.
On a plane? That’s much worse, you can’t just change seats or get out if you want to avoid the person. Oh god
Or… shudder… shut down the conversation with your words and body language.
Oh god the anxiety of it all.
It’s not that the trains are so full of drunk homeless people, but that trains are affordable and also conductors aren’t going to physically throw out a person that could get violent. Planes you don’t really get on without a ticket. An entire class of people are filtered off the plane because of that.
And anyway, said group are a minority, but they’re the only ones who randomly talk to strangers most of the time. Everyone else minds their own business in my experience.
the [drunk & homeless are the] only ones who randomly talk to strangers most of the time
I’m not going to question your experience too much, but it’s sad to me that this would be true.
A random conversation in a random interaction with somebody you could have easily not talked to can be great fun.
I expect it not to happen and hope it stays that way since. Please jusr don’t bother me while I’m on the train
Noted. If we ever see you we’ll ignore you.
Just post your name and photo so we know what you look like. Thanks.
I’m the person on public transit
But I don’t mind people talking to me so how do others differentiate us?
Or getting hit on. I’m just trying to go home, I have no desire to chat with you. I’m busy go away.
That’s kinda what I’m saying though. Those aren’t randos! They’re other people taking the same commute as you, every day. Make a connection with one and you might start to notice them more. Maybe you have a similar hobby or interest.
Give people a chance to enter your life and they often become more than randos on the train. Maybe you find a commute partner, someone to chat with or bitch to about Jane in Accounting.
I’m not gonna try to convince you, Clearly you saw my point and chose to reject it, that’s your choice. I’d urge you to give different thinking a chance though.
They’re random people I most likely have never seen before and probably won’t ever see again. I live in the city, not a small town where everyone knows each other. The idea of trying to connect with the poor sobs who ended up in the same train as me sounds both crazy and draining as fuck. Not the least bit because where I live, most people cherish that moment to themselves and you’d be fucking that up and bothering them.
If I was commuting with the same four people every day I’d be more likely to talk to them but not in a full ass train with random people.
They’re random people I most likely have never seen before and probably won’t ever see again.
And why do you think that? Have you paid attention to the people around you? If you and another person get to work at the same time, and live in the same area then odds are you will encounter them again. There might be a million people in your city. But how many of them have the exact same commute as you?
Also so what if you never see them again on the train? What if you end up really liking them, get their number, and stay in contact?
And why do you think that
Because I have eyes and easily recognize faces. And a shitload of people have the same work schedule and commute in and out the same time. And it’s a big ass train.
For every one of those seconds, how much of your life do you let pass by?" one man asked.
Well, one second I’d estimate
Every 60 seconds, a minute passes in Africa.
Together we can stop this.
Dear god.
I watch the scenery.
Came here to say this lol
What’s the reference here?
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater because they think all tech is is walled gardens on toy hardware. Sad. We failed the next generation.
Late stage capitalism is what this is.
The term “late stage capitalism” is not a call to action, it’s a call to apathy. It’s promoted by online influencers to make it permissible to participate in capitalistic endeavors (it doesn’t matter the collapse is inevitable) so they can entice people to buy their merch so they can be rich. It’s a sign that leftism has been successfully captured by capitalism.
I might be one of the few in this thread who really empathizes with the perspectives of the protesters here
I’m not in a position to cut tech out of my life, but for people who are and dont need or depend on it for something important, it may do a lot of harm for little benefit.
But whether there’s important benefit will vary from person to person. I have a very isolating sleep disorder, and the internet allows me a little bit more connection than I would get otherwise. And home automation helps shoulder some of the load of managing environmental variables that impact my sleep. And there are also technological things that bring me joy.
But not everyone is in a position where their only connection to others is through the internet (if you’re queer in a small town, maybe it is, if you’re queer in a big city or you’re straight that probably isn’t an issue)
There are ofcourse benefits to technology, some of which you can better access through FOSS software, or community projects, or self hosting. But not everyone needs those things, and even those things can have harmful downsides. I think the hyper convenience that much of tech provides is not exactly great for us. Even the fediverse platforms can be addicting, can prioritize stuff that makes you angry, etc, because they copy the underlying design of proprietary social media (even without recommendation algorithms). I struggle to manage how much time I spend engaging with these platforms. Not as much as with reddit, but I still do, and am now creating structure around engaging more in moderation.
I don’t love creating e-waste though. I get that it’s symbolic, I still think it’s wasteful and has no meaningful upsides. It feels deeply privileged to not grasp how that could be a lifeline for poor people who need a way to connect, keep up with work, handle digital tasks like banking and telemedicine, etc, and to smash it on the ground instead of donating it to someone who couldn’t afford a reliable device.
I think a lot of us empathize with the protesters. I don’t actually see any posts saying “this is dumb”.
I am still confused though. I mean I understand protesting Trump, ICE, and the government in general. I can’t control that, so protest is one of my only courses of action. But with technology… we can just not use it. I think I haven’t used Facebook in over 15 years, I’ve never used Twitter. And I’m happier for it, they’re right, that works. I use a smartphone, but I limit the kind of apps I want to put on it. If I find that something, a phone, app, website, whatever, is impacting my life, keeping me from dealing with daily responsibilities, I know it’s a problem, so I’ll stop using it. My point is, I do have control over my tech use, so why rally about it? After all, all the protests in the world won’t give you better self control, that’s a skill you need to build.
Yeah, I mostly just meant in terms of how much I directly relate with the perspectives of the protesters, it seemed at the time of my comment like most of the commenters looked at things somewhat differently to them (which is fine)
I do think you might really be underestimating how deeply addictive tech can be for many people. For people who grew up on platforms like facebook, Instagram, and twitter, and spent enough time there before reflecting on that pattern, those deeply engrained habits can be difficult to shake to the extent of causing not insignificant anxiety
I had social anxiety as a kid (still do) and so used those platforms almost none because they stressed me out (until I joined reddit in highschool), and even I really struggle with some amount of technology addiction I’m working really hard to replace with better patterns.
I pick my phone up and check all the apps for no reason. I feel a bit anxious if my phone isn’t near by. I run out of time in one app I have a time limit set for and immediately jump to another one. I feel a bit stressed when I have to put it down. Not intensely so, but the more I pay attention the more I can tell it’s there and see how it’s molded my behavioral patterns over time.
I have pretty good solutions to those problems, and think I’m making decent progress, but technology absolutely 1000% has warped my life to be about it. With me often serving it rather than it serving me. I can only imagine how difficult it might be for folks who spent lots of time on those platforms, and are less inclined to tinker with their tech and play with open source stuff, and take alternative technological routes
I have no idea what smashing perfectly functional devices is supposed to accomplish. I mean yeah, it’s an anti-tech rally, but creating e-waste is kinda shitty.
Actually, I don’t think I get the point of this whole thing at all. They’re not rallying against climate change or fascism, it’s just “phone bad”. I guess I’m just too old to get it…
Like a pizza cutter. It’s all edge and no point
Symbolism is a very important aspect of public protest and the consequential reporting on and influence of it.
Actually, I don’t think I get the point of this whole thing at all. They’re not rallying against climate change or fascism, it’s just “phone bad”.
I didn’t read the article in full, but it was pretty clear to me right away from the top. They’re saying: We as a society should prioritize real human connection over consuming big tech platforms.
Can’t open source Apple phones.
So basically, getting rid of tech that spies on you and can’t be used anymore after a certain point I guess.
And unlike books, tech has made some things worse. Job applications for one thing. When we were young, recruiters had to physically read the letters and/or places hiring had to physically see you in person.
Now hiring agencies just use automated tools (even before AI) and you get ghosted constantly.
Renting and housing has gotten more expensive because prices can be changed on the fly based on market data available 24/7 (effigy is illegal in many places, but that law rarely enforced).
And that’s not getting into brainrot AI content and manipulative machinations of social media.
There’s definitely reasons to be frustrated at tech for the younger generation. And even justifiable reasons to destroy closed source tech.
Comparing to book burnings is only a false equivalence, as you’re not destroying information, you’re destroying locks that require special keys, unlike FOSS.
Job applications for one thing. When we were young, recruiters had to physically read the letters and/or places hiring had to physically see you in person.
Now hiring agencies just use automated tools (even before AI) and you get ghosted constantly.
Yeah, job applications haven’t changed that much.
It was still a dismissive black box, it’s just that the process was more manual. Instead of AI tools throwing your application away, someone skimmed it looking for a particular bullet point, if they don’t find it in 10 seconds your resume is tossed in the bin. Whether it was AI or a manager, either way you’re probably not getting a call back to let you know they tossed your application.
Comparing to book burnings is only a false equivalence, as you’re not destroying information, you’re destroying locks that require special keys, unlike FOSS.
I’m totally with you on this. It’s not book burning because this generation doesn’t own anything to burn in the first place. You don’t buy a movie, you “buy” a license to stream that movie for a period of time. Tragic.
Yeah, job applications haven’t changed that much.
It was still a dismissive black box, it’s just that the process was more manual. Instead of AI tools throwing your application away, someone skimmed it looking for a particular bullet point, if they don’t find it in 10 seconds your resume is tossed in the bin. Whether it was AI or a manager, either way you’re probably not getting a call back to let you know they tossed your application.
The manual review though does improve your odds than an algorithm looking for keywords.
Not to mention sometimes you got feedback of what your odds were of getting hired. If you gave someone your physical resumé, and they just laid it down in a random spot and we’re dismissive, you at least knew immediately that you should probably not expect a call back.
The manual review though does improve your odds than an algorithm looking for keywords.
I mean… It’s a human looking for keywords…
Not to mention sometimes you got feedback of what your odds were of getting hired. If you gave someone your physical resumé, and they just laid it down in a random spot and we’re dismissive, you at least knew immediately that you should probably not expect a call back.
Ok, I guess you could just drop off your resume in person, but then what would happen is you give it to the person at the counter/reception desk/front office/whatever, and then you’d have no idea if it ever even get to a hiring manager. More often you’d just email your resume to the manager/HR (yes we had email in the 90s), so you’d know it would get to the right people, but then would have no idea if anyone actually ever looked at it unless you got a call back.
To be fair I was referring to the 80s 👴
So basically, getting rid of tech that spies on you and can’t be used anymore after a certain point I guess.
There are enough people that are perfectly fine with having any phone or any device to do basic stuff like making calls. And besides, if you wanted to get rid of something there are more responsible ways to do that than “me don’t like, me smash” IMO
And that’s not getting into brainrot AI content and manipulative machinations of social media.
It’s very easy to not use social media (in a harmful way) and not consume brainrot AI content in my opinion. Sure, it’s getting more difficult to differentiate I guess, but it’s still not that difficult if you try even a little bit
Comparing to book burnings is only a false equivalence
Which is why I didn’t make that comparison, I guess you wanted to reply to @Buffalox@lemmy.world
There are enough people that are perfectly fine with having any phone or any device to do basic stuff like making calls.
And those people will already have at least a feature phone. The poor don’t stop eating because someone else burns gilded pork fat. In both cases because those things are needed (food, communication in modern society for basic services and work).
It’s very easy to not use social media (in a harmful way) and not consume brainrot AI content in my opinion. Sure, it’s getting more difficult to differentiate I guess, but it’s still not that difficult if you try even a little bit
It actually isn’t. The algorithms for most social media are designed to release dopamine, and humans tend to be social creatures. Sure, if more of society and people knew of the harms it causes, especially particular ones, then it would be easier. But right now? It’s like trying to tell people they shouldn’t smoke in the 1950s.
Btw, we’re using social media right now. Lemmy isn’t immune, and there’s definitely bad actors here that use social media negatively. You either have to avoid All or constantly block communities.
Which is why I didn’t make that comparison, I guess you wanted to reply to @Buffalox@lemmy.world
Whoops yeah, that last part was for them.
yeah you are very likely too old to get it
It’s similar to burning books IMO.
Buying something just to destroy it will always be moronic no matter what the item is.
It only accomplishes to make the company that makes those items make more money, so they can make even more items.
Big rally. Wonder how they organised so many people.
One attendee told me they heard about it through word of mouth, which makes sense.
Ha! Good one.
Apparently this was advertised on Substack, some sort of “media platform” (??)
I honestly wish I didn’t have to rely on apps made by corpos just to stay updated in school. And I would probably need to use Google and Windows products once I start work. Ugh
Fucking conservatives in my opinion. Its not a bad way of spending time, its different. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. If you’re too stupid to understand it, just stay away from it. But don’t ruin it for the open minded people who are open to new ideas.
You don’t read a whole lot of scientific articles do you? There is plenty of research (a lot from norweigen studies) that proves you wrong pal. Ipads and phones is a fucking disease for our youngsters, pretty much also for any boomer out there.
Thats because they treat it like a toy, not a tool.
They? We treat it as a toy. All of us. And it’s all because the system is designed that way. Don’t go blaming the young adults, the teens; and the children for something you might also be doing.
Narcissism won’t get you anywhere - our internet is capitalised by corporations and you’re blaming people that are trying to do something about it. To raise some awareness.
have been using semiconductor based tools for a few decades now. phones and tablets certainly only fit the toy category.
Society has to decide as a group how much we will allow people to harm themselves with various addictions. Noone lives alone in this world so why act like it?
I am completely against addictions, including those like algorithmic social media. I am also against people who dont understand tech blaming it instead of blaming the real problem. If we just took a second to understand it we would understand how to use it responsibly.
You could make the same argument about heroin, cocaine, marijuana, pornography, alcohol, video games, etc.
If youll notice, we as a society agree to different levels of restrictions based on the potential harm. Many new technologies cause harm but we find out after the technology is in use, so we need to constantly review and revise things.
Thats a good reason why alcohol is increasingly restricted whole marijuana is decreasingly restricted. New information is available that suggests we adjust our risk assessment.
Which technology are you implying is safer than most people think?
I’ve spent many hours on this and I still do not understand the real problem. What’s the real problem?
How do you use these devices responsibly?
Get out of my head!
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