NATO is outward facing. It can’t handle internal conflict.
We already tested this when Turkiye and Greece began militarizing in the Aegan Sea back in the 1970s. They’ve grown progressively more hostile for decades, with a number of barely averted military engagements.
The agreement would continue to have meaning with respect to external entities - African, Middle Eastern, Russian, and Chinese conflicts. But all the member states can do is roll over (or actively facilitate territory seizure) when they’re threatened by their largest member
Foreign officials making statements condemning the act, but not actually pursuing any consequences for the US. What they’ve been doing this whole time.
What exactly? Describe what actions the US has taken, and the milquetoast responses from the world. I’m sure they will all be equivalent to an occupation and theft of a sovereign country that belongs to the EU, as well as a signatory to NATO.
Actual occupation of a sovereign nation, not yet, threatening it multiple times against multiple places, yes. That should be more than enough to hit the US with sanctions or SOMETHING more than just words.
The rest of the world isn’t going to start World War 3 over Greenland, just abolish US relations.
This is what Trump/Miller want. They’re the abusive partner trying to get you to cut contact with all your friends and family.
edit: some naive fuckers in Lemmy. You just watched the USA kidnap the leader of another country and are currently making plans to kidnap the leaders of other neighboring countries and the rest of the world is just making frowny faces and stern condemnations. When Hitler annexed Anschluss there were plenty of people who were STILL saying “He won’t go after more, it’s fear-mongering, Europe’s strength will deter him.” Yes the US could take Greenland, and no it won’t lead to Europe going to war with the US because the consequences are too extreme. No, it’s not a good thing either if that’s what your thick skull is taking from this. There is no good outcome, sometimes some things happen and they’re just bad.
And when the rest of the world, like Canada, sells off their Tbonds and crashes the US economy, nationalizes US assets including patents, sells off US dollars reserves and cuts off exports - including hydro power, potash, oil, aluminum, and uranium, to name just a few from Canada - I guarantee the US will notice. Even one of these will be enough for the US to become the aggressor.
Greenland may seem minor, but where Greenland goes, Canada goes. For my country this is existential. And frankly, I can only assume you have typical American hubris if you assume the US will be allowed to do whatever they want.
Americans who enable this are entitled, spoiled, arrogant children who don’t understand a) how dependent they are on the other countries, b) how a threat to their pampered asses really looks and feels, and c) that the upcoming fight for other countries is existential, and not just for more treasure. Americans are fighting and dying for more profits for their billionaires and maybe a new iPhone. They’re fighting to protect a billionaire conman who fucks kids. The rest of the world is fighting for their existence. You tell me who is more motivated.
I can only assume you have typical American hubris if you assume the US will be allowed to do whatever they want.
Are we really doing this shit? I’m not reading the rest and I’m blocking you, you know damn well I don’t represent my country’s politics, and you fucks out there need to do better than become like this rotten country and start doing the tribalism shit. I am giving political analysis and if it sparks you to want to hate someone for it, send that hate where it belongs, the people who are controlling the US and will soon control Canada and europe as well. And I don’t mean Trump.
Oh it’s another one of the “billionaires are causing all of this and by recognizing that I absolve myself of all responsibility and justify my indignant anger towards countries that my country is threatening” Americans.
Speaking as a Canadian and repeating a comment from a few days ago that was in a different context.
If Trump/US invaded Greenland.
Pollievre (leader of Conservative party) - “yes Daddy invade them!”
Carney (leader of Liberal party & Canadian Government currently) - “Canada is alarmed by these actions and will continue to work collaboratively with its international partners to find a solution.”
We all know the Liberal response is the better one but it still means absolutely jack shit.
I agree with you on what we’ll hear, but I second the other comment: besides the speeches, Carney will move Canada further away from the US.
He started doing so without saying it too loudly. Only an idiot would not see it. The good thing is only one idiot needs to be fooled.
To escalate, he has multiple levers at his disposal: the everlasting hesitation between F35 and Gripen purchase, the tariffs on Chinese EV (if they were repelled, US car makers could be driven out of Canada’s market within just a few years). And of course dumping US bonds, but that would hurt Canada too.
How can Canada move away from the US? Our economies are heavily integrated we’re eachother’s biggest trading partners.
Canada makes parts for US cars, thats the justification used to follow US tariffs on chinese EVs, what hurts our big 4 hurts your factories.
Militarily its even worse. Unless you imagine Canada throwing out all the weapons systems which depend on US manufacturing and buying European(where they exist), Chinese, and Russian(the US would probably start pirating your cargo ships) systems instead, Canada’s options are be a part if America’s military force or not have modern weapons.
I happen to think you’re wrong. It would be political suicide. Carney has been working feverishly to diversify, and he would recognize that the majority of Canadians are done with the US. We either act decisively at Greenland, or we are finished. And if the people decide on that policy, it doesn’t really matter what the PM wants to do.
I’m ready to sacrifice, because this is existential for us.
It really does look like it. Big Oligarchy (Putin among them) saw our supposed “shining city on a hill” and paid their boy to set that city on fire, sabotage its foundations, and scare away the populace.
Assets are much cheaper, and less uppity, in times of chaos.
I think there’s a pretty good case to be made that NATO would be effectively dissolved if the United States attacked Greenland.
the attack would likely be tolerated by the other NATO members, and so the agreement would no longer have meaning.
NATO is outward facing. It can’t handle internal conflict.
We already tested this when Turkiye and Greece began militarizing in the Aegan Sea back in the 1970s. They’ve grown progressively more hostile for decades, with a number of barely averted military engagements.
The agreement would continue to have meaning with respect to external entities - African, Middle Eastern, Russian, and Chinese conflicts. But all the member states can do is roll over (or actively facilitate territory seizure) when they’re threatened by their largest member
All conservatives can do is break things.
Can’t build.
Only break.
Like a poorly raised child.
i would call it looting
Not sure where you get the feeling that the attack would be tolerated by the EU or Canada. What does tolerated mean to you?
Foreign officials making statements condemning the act, but not actually pursuing any consequences for the US. What they’ve been doing this whole time.
What exactly? Describe what actions the US has taken, and the milquetoast responses from the world. I’m sure they will all be equivalent to an occupation and theft of a sovereign country that belongs to the EU, as well as a signatory to NATO.
That’s a fair point, this is another level. But the US spends much, much more on its military than all of Europe and Canada combined.
Actual occupation of a sovereign nation, not yet, threatening it multiple times against multiple places, yes. That should be more than enough to hit the US with sanctions or SOMETHING more than just words.
… Venezuela.
…is rather different from Greenland, Denmark, EU and Canada.
Edit to add… But still depressing, don’t get me wrong.
The rest of the world isn’t going to start World War 3 over Greenland, just abolish US relations.
This is what Trump/Miller want. They’re the abusive partner trying to get you to cut contact with all your friends and family.
edit: some naive fuckers in Lemmy. You just watched the USA kidnap the leader of another country and are currently making plans to kidnap the leaders of other neighboring countries and the rest of the world is just making frowny faces and stern condemnations. When Hitler annexed Anschluss there were plenty of people who were STILL saying “He won’t go after more, it’s fear-mongering, Europe’s strength will deter him.” Yes the US could take Greenland, and no it won’t lead to Europe going to war with the US because the consequences are too extreme. No, it’s not a good thing either if that’s what your thick skull is taking from this. There is no good outcome, sometimes some things happen and they’re just bad.
Let’s be clear, the US is starting it.
And when the rest of the world, like Canada, sells off their Tbonds and crashes the US economy, nationalizes US assets including patents, sells off US dollars reserves and cuts off exports - including hydro power, potash, oil, aluminum, and uranium, to name just a few from Canada - I guarantee the US will notice. Even one of these will be enough for the US to become the aggressor.
Greenland may seem minor, but where Greenland goes, Canada goes. For my country this is existential. And frankly, I can only assume you have typical American hubris if you assume the US will be allowed to do whatever they want.
Americans who enable this are entitled, spoiled, arrogant children who don’t understand a) how dependent they are on the other countries, b) how a threat to their pampered asses really looks and feels, and c) that the upcoming fight for other countries is existential, and not just for more treasure. Americans are fighting and dying for more profits for their billionaires and maybe a new iPhone. They’re fighting to protect a billionaire conman who fucks kids. The rest of the world is fighting for their existence. You tell me who is more motivated.
Are we really doing this shit? I’m not reading the rest and I’m blocking you, you know damn well I don’t represent my country’s politics, and you fucks out there need to do better than become like this rotten country and start doing the tribalism shit. I am giving political analysis and if it sparks you to want to hate someone for it, send that hate where it belongs, the people who are controlling the US and will soon control Canada and europe as well. And I don’t mean Trump.
Oh it’s another one of the “billionaires are causing all of this and by recognizing that I absolve myself of all responsibility and justify my indignant anger towards countries that my country is threatening” Americans.
Any more of you around?
It won’t start WW3, as Africa nor asia will hop onto the conflict.
“It wont start ww2, its just a tiny conflict between germany and poland over Danzig”
Speaking as a Canadian and repeating a comment from a few days ago that was in a different context.
If Trump/US invaded Greenland.
Pollievre (leader of Conservative party) - “yes Daddy invade them!”
Carney (leader of Liberal party & Canadian Government currently) - “Canada is alarmed by these actions and will continue to work collaboratively with its international partners to find a solution.”
We all know the Liberal response is the better one but it still means absolutely jack shit.
I agree with you on what we’ll hear, but I second the other comment: besides the speeches, Carney will move Canada further away from the US.
He started doing so without saying it too loudly. Only an idiot would not see it. The good thing is only one idiot needs to be fooled.
To escalate, he has multiple levers at his disposal: the everlasting hesitation between F35 and Gripen purchase, the tariffs on Chinese EV (if they were repelled, US car makers could be driven out of Canada’s market within just a few years). And of course dumping US bonds, but that would hurt Canada too.
How can Canada move away from the US? Our economies are heavily integrated we’re eachother’s biggest trading partners.
Canada makes parts for US cars, thats the justification used to follow US tariffs on chinese EVs, what hurts our big 4 hurts your factories.
Militarily its even worse. Unless you imagine Canada throwing out all the weapons systems which depend on US manufacturing and buying European(where they exist), Chinese, and Russian(the US would probably start pirating your cargo ships) systems instead, Canada’s options are be a part if America’s military force or not have modern weapons.
I happen to think you’re wrong. It would be political suicide. Carney has been working feverishly to diversify, and he would recognize that the majority of Canadians are done with the US. We either act decisively at Greenland, or we are finished. And if the people decide on that policy, it doesn’t really matter what the PM wants to do.
I’m ready to sacrifice, because this is existential for us.
I hope I’m wrong too btw
Or France or Poland
Such is the point. There’s a reason Donnie started his first term so aggressively picking fights with Canada and Norway. Fulfilling Putin’s wish.
Also diverts attention from Ukraine.
It really does look like it. Big Oligarchy (Putin among them) saw our supposed “shining city on a hill” and paid their boy to set that city on fire, sabotage its foundations, and scare away the populace.
Assets are much cheaper, and less uppity, in times of chaos.
thats PUTIN’s biggest wetdream, plus its probably vladmir telling him now is the time.