Trump claims Greenland needs to be occupied to protect against Russia and China.
Russia could be defeated in Ukraine if the US hadn’t stopped helping.
And so sorry to burst your bubble Trump, but you are accelerating the inevitable Chinese ascendency, and occupying Greenland will actually drive the rest of the world to them.
This reads like Poland saying, “if Germany invades, the axis powers should defend us”.
Ironic as the only ones that invoked Article 5 of NATO has been the USA. Every other member has solved their problems on their own.
Yup.
Other nations came to our aid, and sacrificed soldiers, for the U.S. after 9/11.
And now American conservatives are mocking and threatening those allies after what they did for us.
It’s sickening.
I say conservatives, not Americans, because I don’t consider conservatives to be Americans anymore. They don’t align with American values. They don’t respect our Constitution. And they certainly don’t respect our allies.
I don’t consider conservatives to be Americans anymore
You should. They’ve got the dark rot of Americanism running through their veins worse than any of us.
Other nations came to our aid, and sacrificed soldiers, for Halliburton, Exxon, and racism after 9/11.
Lets not pretend Iraq and Afghanistan had anything to do with 9/11.
ALL conservatives are MAGA now, and ALL MAGAs are corrupt, traitors, racists, rapists, misogynists, ignorant, incompetent, and PEDOPHILES. It’s a permanent, indelible stain that will follow each one of them individually, FOREVER.
I say conservatives, not Americans, because I don’t consider conservatives to be Americans anymore
Sounds like billionaire owned corporate media has successfully poisoned you to hate a large chunk of your fellow working class men and women. Bummer. It’s more likely than not that the neoliberal capitalists will completely crush the American working class, it’s guaranteed if we can’t find a way to work together.
We don’t hate working class Americans, just class traitors who are simping for Psychopathic Oligarchs who want to literally enslave us. There is no reason to respect an ignorant intolerant who has gone all in on destroying Democracy, just because it feeds their feral hatred.
They made their choice, and they should suffer the consequences, as an example to those morons in the future who are too weak to resist propaganda and political manipulation.
We don’t hate working class Americans, just class traitors who are simping for Psychopathic Oligarchs who want to literally enslave us.
Who exactly are the class traitors you’re referring to? Working class Americans who: Voted Republican? Voted for trump specifically? Hold conservative values? Didn’t vote at all in the last election? Your statement paints such broad strokes. I see rhetoric just like this in almost every political thread. It’s such an oversimplification that assumes that one party is controlled by these psychopathic oligarchs who hold such immense power, but apparently not enough to effectively control both parties. Why do you think the candidate or party you support isn’t controlled by these same oligarchs? Isn’t it becoming painfully obvious that we’ve been living in a failing state where the working class has no effective representation? It would be just as easy for someone from the other party to think that about you, and that’s the point, rhetoric like this only has one purpose: create division amongst the working class.
They made their choice, and they should suffer the consequences, as an example to those morons in the future who are too weak to resist propaganda and political manipulation.
Was the choice not voting for your preferred candidate/party or is it more nuanced than that? Personally I think working class people are suffering enough but it sounds like you’d like to see more suffering. That makes it really hard to create the type of class unity the working class will require to try and reset the power imbalance we’re fighting for against the neoliberal capitalists.
I am the first to agree that the real battle is between the 1% and everyone else, but when it comes to MAGA, economic class has nothing to do with it. If you are MAGA, you are a traitor, a racist, and a pedophile, among other things, and you are irredeemable. There is no forgiveness for you, no mercy.
We cannot have the economic class war that we need, if MAGAs are among us, sabotaging our efforts. We need to clear the decks of the traitors and pedophiles, then go after the Sociopathic Oligarchs. Legally if possible, but that’s up to them.
When it comes to MAGA, economic class has nothing to do with it. If you are MAGA, you are a traitor, a racist, and a pedophile, among other things, and you are irredeemable. There is no forgiveness for you, no mercy.
I’m trying my best to read your response in good faith and reply in kind. I also believe the MAGA movement and the types that gravitate towards it are in the moral wrong but I can’t go so far as to write off the humanity or class solidarity for individuals who made a wrong choice. The working class is at such a disadvantage. Working class voters who had disinformation influence their vote don’t deserve to be written off so broadly. The 18 year old who got funneled into a MAGA pipeline on Youtube or an 80 year old engaging with disinformation from Facebook and Fox News shouldn’t all be written off as class trading racist pedos. Those kind of broad statements only create and reinforce division.
We cannot have the economic class war that we need, if MAGAs are among us, sabotaging our efforts. We need to clear the decks of the traitors and pedophiles, then go after the Sociopathic Oligarchs. Legally if possible, but that’s up to them.
I’m trying to find common ground with you but your statements are very divisive. Instead of trying to root out every working class person who doesn’t align with your view before trying to tackle the imbalance between neoliberal capitalists and the working class why not instead focus on building a coalition of like minded people to tackle the issue directly? We have the numbers to create the change we want to see. Let’s build the moral high ground together united around improving conditions for all the working class. Let our efforts be the change that helps working class people affected by disinformation realize their mistake and join us so we can collectively fight the neoliberals and find some balance before it’s too late.
I don’t expect people to align with my opinions, at all, but I will not forgive evil. If you have embraced MAGA, then you have embraced evil, and I have no tolerance for evil, or those who willingly, enthusiastically wallow in it.
MAGA is in power because of the pathetic attitude of Democratic weaklings who are OBSSESSED with being POLITE to traitors and pedophiles. It was worth a try at the beginning, but it has clearly not worked AT ALL, and it’s naive to keep insisting that continuing to appease these stupid apes is going to finally have some impact on their behavior. You’re right, it will, it will make them behave even worse, which is exactly what has happened over the last decade, especially during the shameful Biden administration.
Now they are killing innocent American citizens who have the nerve to actually exercise their First Amendment Rights. They are literally MURDERING us, and they are only going to get worse, and your response is to continue to be even more polite, because surely it will work this time.
They are killing us now, understand? It’s time to stop being nice. Appeasement has NEVER worked with these pyschopaths. We need to make them fear us, in every way possible, political and otherwise.
It’s great that you’ve figured out that wealth inequality is the problem, but this doesn’t make enemies into friends.
Many on the right are too far gone, and I say this as a Canadian, where the sickness hasn’t fully spread yet.
Funny that people say it would dissolve. NATO should stay intact after the US invasion. The alliance would just kick the US out.
Personally the UN should kick the United States out if they do invade. Then the UN needs to unite against the rogue United States. Sell all bonds and move their currency base. Wouldn’t be pretty, but fighting the United States with conventional weapons won’t end well. Crushing our economy and cutting trade is the real weapons that should be used.
It seems like there is no mechanism to kick a country out like that. What’s more likely is that NATO will be de facto dissolved immediately, but this doesn’t stop allied countries from working together anyway. If the Trump administration thinks that NATO is the only thing holding alliances together, I think they will be uncomfortably surprised.
Personally I think the real decision makers in the Trump administration actually want war, or at the very least don’t care if they get it. We should just cut them off from everything. Make them react. I’m sick of playing the game. Just shit or get off the pot.
What’s the difference between kicking a country out of NATO vs all the other countries just saying, ok NATO2, same members minus one?
NATO2
NA2 is right there
It’s a lot more complex administratively, I guess.
Yeah that was the impression I got when I did some mindless chatgpt fiddling. There really is nothing stopping them from creating NATO 2: Cold War Boogaloo, except that it would take more time to set it up than it would for them to simply activate emergency bilateral assistance agreements or things like EU mutual assistance (Article 42(7)).
They would not be obligated under NATO anymore (there is apparently an article in Vienna Convention on international treaties that allows for suspended operation of a multiparty treaty if there is material breach).
In short new defense agreements would be established immediately and in parallel with the formal dissolution of NATO. The US attacking NATO is not like a cool loophole trick that makes the whole world obligated to just surrender… But if they did recreate NATO they couldn’t use the same name, apparently it’s protected.
Yeah that was the impression I got when I did some mindless chatgpt fiddling.
Thank’s but we could just ask a chatbot ourselves; we don’t need intermediaries.
I had already looked it up about a week ago. So I saved you the effort. And I was being honest about where I got the info, not trying to pretend I’m an expert.
Anyway this is an incredibly fatuous comment. Are you expecting everyone on Lemmy to not research, and just respond with mindless rambling bullshit? Shall we just sit around commenting on how we all don’t know the answer, hoping that an expert will show up? Or are you claiming that only certain types of research are ok? You know LLMs are quite powerful research tools, yeah? They provide links too. It’s really amazing.
Super amazing if all the links are real. Google did just have to remove some query responses from their ai because it was lying about blood tests and giving out unsafe info iirc, so there is that.
Supply chains would be the biggest issue, methinks. Gotta figure out what hardware you need to adopt, maintaining the stuff you already have without American dictation, and so on.
The alliance would just kick the US out.
The alliance was created to guarantee US hegemony over Europe. It’s predicated on dozens of US bases, US administered logistics routes, US contractors, US arms dealers, US surveillance.
You can’t remove the US any more than you can tear out your own heart.
Europe will need to completely retrofit how it handles internal security. And - especially after Brexit - I just don’t see the necessary level of cohesion between the members, absent a totalitarian hegemon like the Americans forcing Europeans together.
Crushing our economy and cutting trade is the real weapons that should be used
Just stop trade, we don’t make anything here we use directly. If we do try to make things here, you end up with smarter every day’s $100 grill scraper.
In a couple of weeks target/walmart will be empty
immediately all fruit/veggies in the winter will increase in price 10 fold.
We’re already on the edge of a recession.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think an issue with that is that there isn’t a mechanism for kicking a country out; the US would have to choose to leave. So more likely the allied nations would have to reform a new agreement which has its own red tape.
Technically yes. A lot of international coalitions are built without mechanism to exclude anyone and that’s why Russia still has a seat on UN security council. With NATO that would be somewhat simple at least on agreement level, just have everyone to join NATOv2 and resign from current NATO and continue work without US. In practise it’s obviously “a bit” more complicated to arrange command and supply chains and whatever, but it’s still absolutely doable if member countries really want to.
not all. make it so that it can still be worse for them if the need arises. useful for negotiations
I think there’s a pretty good case to be made that NATO would be effectively dissolved if the United States attacked Greenland.
the attack would likely be tolerated by the other NATO members, and so the agreement would no longer have meaning.
NATO is outward facing. It can’t handle internal conflict.
We already tested this when Turkiye and Greece began militarizing in the Aegan Sea back in the 1970s. They’ve grown progressively more hostile for decades, with a number of barely averted military engagements.
The agreement would continue to have meaning with respect to external entities - African, Middle Eastern, Russian, and Chinese conflicts. But all the member states can do is roll over (or actively facilitate territory seizure) when they’re threatened by their largest member
All conservatives can do is break things.
Can’t build.
Only break.
Like a poorly raised child.
i would call it looting
Not sure where you get the feeling that the attack would be tolerated by the EU or Canada. What does tolerated mean to you?
Foreign officials making statements condemning the act, but not actually pursuing any consequences for the US. What they’ve been doing this whole time.
What exactly? Describe what actions the US has taken, and the milquetoast responses from the world. I’m sure they will all be equivalent to an occupation and theft of a sovereign country that belongs to the EU, as well as a signatory to NATO.
That’s a fair point, this is another level. But the US spends much, much more on its military than all of Europe and Canada combined.
Their economy depends on the other countries around the world. What do you suppose happens when the countries dump TBonds and the US dollar? What happens when the agriculture industry is destroyed when the potash stops? There are so many trade dependencies that disappear.
The US has had a golden ticket and they would throw it away. No more printing money. Good luck maintaining all of that military, especially spread out all over the world.
It’s frankly astonishing that the citizens of the US don’t understand that they established these systems of trade and finances to benefit them and make their country rich and so they could get low priced goods and abundance, and they got spoiled by it and assumed it was all due to their greatness. But they’re heavily dependent on it and it’s a different world once it’s gone.
The very definition of born on third and thought they hit a triple.
Complete and total cessation of trade with the US is extremely unlikely. Countries that have done worse still regularly engage in trade. Even if all of Europe stopped buying and selling with the US, Europe is 500 million people on a planet with 7 billion.
No, it still wouldn’t be good for anybody and Trump and his supporters are deluded dingbats but it wouldn’t isolate the US.
Actual occupation of a sovereign nation, not yet, threatening it multiple times against multiple places, yes. That should be more than enough to hit the US with sanctions or SOMETHING more than just words.
… Venezuela.
…is rather different from Greenland, Denmark, EU and Canada.
Edit to add… But still depressing, don’t get me wrong.
The rest of the world isn’t going to start World War 3 over Greenland, just abolish US relations.
This is what Trump/Miller want. They’re the abusive partner trying to get you to cut contact with all your friends and family.
edit: some naive fuckers in Lemmy. You just watched the USA kidnap the leader of another country and are currently making plans to kidnap the leaders of other neighboring countries and the rest of the world is just making frowny faces and stern condemnations. When Hitler annexed Anschluss there were plenty of people who were STILL saying “He won’t go after more, it’s fear-mongering, Europe’s strength will deter him.” Yes the US could take Greenland, and no it won’t lead to Europe going to war with the US because the consequences are too extreme. No, it’s not a good thing either if that’s what your thick skull is taking from this. There is no good outcome, sometimes some things happen and they’re just bad.
I feel like a lot of Europe didn’t even bother to condemn the Venezuela thing
Let’s be clear, the US is starting it.
And when the rest of the world, like Canada, sells off their Tbonds and crashes the US economy, nationalizes US assets including patents, sells off US dollars reserves and cuts off exports - including hydro power, potash, oil, aluminum, and uranium, to name just a few from Canada - I guarantee the US will notice. Even one of these will be enough for the US to become the aggressor.
Greenland may seem minor, but where Greenland goes, Canada goes. For my country this is existential. And frankly, I can only assume you have typical American hubris if you assume the US will be allowed to do whatever they want.
Americans who enable this are entitled, spoiled, arrogant children who don’t understand a) how dependent they are on the other countries, b) how a threat to their pampered asses really looks and feels, and c) that the upcoming fight for other countries is existential, and not just for more treasure. Americans are fighting and dying for more profits for their billionaires and maybe a new iPhone. They’re fighting to protect a billionaire conman who fucks kids. The rest of the world is fighting for their existence. You tell me who is more motivated.
I can only assume you have typical American hubris if you assume the US will be allowed to do whatever they want.
Are we really doing this shit? I’m not reading the rest and I’m blocking you, you know damn well I don’t represent my country’s politics, and you fucks out there need to do better than become like this rotten country and start doing the tribalism shit. I am giving political analysis and if it sparks you to want to hate someone for it, send that hate where it belongs, the people who are controlling the US and will soon control Canada and europe as well. And I don’t mean Trump.
Oh it’s another one of the “billionaires are causing all of this and by recognizing that I absolve myself of all responsibility and justify my indignant anger towards countries that my country is threatening” Americans.
Any more of you around?
He’s really just saying that you’re demonstrating the intellectual capacity of a standard Trump supporter because you apparently think all Americans are equally responsible for this.
It won’t start WW3, as Africa nor asia will hop onto the conflict.
“It wont start ww2, its just a tiny conflict between germany and poland over Danzig”
Speaking as a Canadian and repeating a comment from a few days ago that was in a different context.
If Trump/US invaded Greenland.
Pollievre (leader of Conservative party) - “yes Daddy invade them!”
Carney (leader of Liberal party & Canadian Government currently) - “Canada is alarmed by these actions and will continue to work collaboratively with its international partners to find a solution.”
We all know the Liberal response is the better one but it still means absolutely jack shit.
I agree with you on what we’ll hear, but I second the other comment: besides the speeches, Carney will move Canada further away from the US.
He started doing so without saying it too loudly. Only an idiot would not see it. The good thing is only one idiot needs to be fooled.To escalate, he has multiple levers at his disposal: the everlasting hesitation between F35 and Gripen purchase, the tariffs on Chinese EV (if they were repelled, US car makers could be driven out of Canada’s market within just a few years). And of course dumping US bonds, but that would hurt Canada too.
How can Canada move away from the US? Our economies are heavily integrated we’re eachother’s biggest trading partners.
Canada makes parts for US cars, thats the justification used to follow US tariffs on chinese EVs, what hurts our big 4 hurts your factories.
Militarily its even worse. Unless you imagine Canada throwing out all the weapons systems which depend on US manufacturing and buying European(where they exist), Chinese, and Russian(the US would probably start pirating your cargo ships) systems instead, Canada’s options are be a part if America’s military force or not have modern weapons.
I happen to think you’re wrong. It would be political suicide. Carney has been working feverishly to diversify, and he would recognize that the majority of Canadians are done with the US. We either act decisively at Greenland, or we are finished. And if the people decide on that policy, it doesn’t really matter what the PM wants to do.
I’m ready to sacrifice, because this is existential for us.
I hope I’m wrong too btw
Or France or Poland
Such is the point. There’s a reason Donnie started his first term so aggressively picking fights with Canada and Norway. Fulfilling Putin’s wish.
Also diverts attention from Ukraine.
It really does look like it. Big Oligarchy (Putin among them) saw our supposed “shining city on a hill” and paid their boy to set that city on fire, sabotage its foundations, and scare away the populace.
Assets are much cheaper, and less uppity, in times of chaos.
thats PUTIN’s biggest wetdream, plus its probably vladmir telling him now is the time.
Agree with the title but downvote for unreliable source website. Here’s the real article they copy pasted from Reuters.
Changed article to Reuters, thanks for stating that.
This was originally reported by Reuters as someone already said. We should add that The South China Morning Post is a Chinese state-controlled propaganda medium owned by Alibaba Group and based in Hong Kong.
owned by Alibaba Group and based in Hong Kong.
To be more specific, they have a bit of a liberal/pro-business bias due to those 2 factors, as opposed to China Daily and Fifth Tone.
Chinese state-controlled propaganda
All media is propaganda. If its not controlled by the state, its controlled by the same billionaires who control the state, making state-control redundant.
I changed the link to the Reuters article.
But thanks for additional context regarding the other source.
Maybe you should add that Reuters is a British bourgeois-controlled propaganda medium owned by the 3rd Baron Thomson of Fleet, a Canadian and British media magnate.
/s and just jocking
As of January 2025, Thomson is the richest person in Canada and 22nd richest in the world, with an estimated net worth of $68.6 billion USD.[8]
Definitely a man of upstanding character…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Thomson,_3rd_Baron_Thomson_of_Fleet
If we let Trump take Greenland, we may as well let hi take our kids now.
But the US is NATO. 🤭
The US needs Greenland to defend it from Russia and China.
Greenland is in NATO, allowing the US to defend it from Russia and China.
mission_accomplished.jpg
Also the US already has a military base in Greenland and has for many decades. In fact, they used to have dozen or so during the Cold War. And because the area is apparently such vital importance to the defence of the US, they currently have… 150 soldiers stationed there.
In the one base they have kept.Very, very important location. Vital for defence.
And they know they can reactivate as many bases as they like, or create new ones if they wanted to. It’s all part of the current deal they already have and completely ignore.
Obviously it’s needed to refuel the Nuclear Subs on their way to Russian waters.
Are you suggesting that when the President says it’s vital for national security that he’s being less than truthful?
Would he do that? Go on the Internet and tell lies?
Yes, so it should be clear as day to anyone ordered to attack Greenland that they should refuse.
“As part of the Danish commonwealth, Greenland is a member of NATO and the defence of Greenland must therefore be through NATO,” the government said.
They’re not saying that Greenland should be defended by NATO against the US, they’re saying Greenland should be defended by NATO as opposed to being occupied by and defended by only the US.
The US is in NATO.
Not for long.
wrong country but total Star Blazers vibe
NATO ain’t gonna do shit lmao. It was always a fake-ass fantasy designed to stop communism. That’s it.
NATO likely will be de facto dissolved instantly upon US occupation.
The EU, Canada, Australia and other allies will retaliate. Imagine the hubris of thinking otherwise. And I would not be surprised to see alliances shifting to China.
US had a golden ticket granted to them by the rest of the world. How irretrievably stupid, selfish and short sighted do you have to be to throw that all away… And for a bloated conman who fucks kids? They deserve to crash.
I guarantee you they will “closely monitor the situation”.
Which country do you live in?
How irretrievably stupid, selfish and short sighted do you have to be to throw that all away… And for a bloated conman who fucks kids? They deserve to crash.
That’s why I don’t buy it. All the clever people in the US accept that policy? All the billionaires who will lose their markets have supported a second term?
Trump can be impeached at any moment. All it takes is some billionaires who call their congress men.
I don’t like NATO.
However, Greenland doesn’t deserve an American occupation. So this would be a NATO intervention that I would support.
So you don’t like us, but you want us to fight and die for you ? How about fuck you, I’m taking care of my own.
OP is not Greenland. Your comment makes no sense.
you don’t like us
Are you US American? It seems like you are equating NATO to the USA. Which makes about as much sense as saying that the Internet is American.
Umm actually it is an American invention just like peanut butter is. It is just nobody profits off of the protocols that make the internet work.
How about fuck you, I’m taking care of my own.
I mean that’s cool too as NATO would fracture either way.
So it’s a win-win for me, hate to see the Greenlanders suffer though.
hate to see the Greenlanders suffer though.
I doubt that.
edit: .ml, I should have known better, you are a waste of oxygen lol.
random insults
I suppose you must be stressed out today, I can only hope your day becomes better.
Your first statement was “I don’t like NATO”. I think the person responding is assuming you’re a US citizen, and so a member of the only country to call the rest of NATO to its aid, despite being the most powerful.
