I’ve seen alot of calls for violence in America. Whether it be directed at the president or Federal officers, many people are advocating for an escalation in response to the current situation.
And believe me, I do understand. what I see happening in America is horrifying. But all I am imploring is to really think about what your asking for. Because you can’t put the genie in the bottle once you’ve left it out.
If you’re really gung-ho about it, go and ask a Veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan about it and see what they think. If anyone will know about it they will.
I am going to link a YouTube Playlist. Its the Associated Press Archives of the Bosnian-Serbian war. Because THAT is what will happen if wide scale violence breaks out. Except what will happen in America will be a hundred times worse.
The Bosnian war was pretty much broken up along ethnic lines. “Well it’s going to be Conservative VS. Liberal” you say. Except it won’t be. It will be anyone having a grudge against someone going after them.
ALOT of personal animosity will be taken out in the first few weeks I feel.
And I think the Seige of Sarajavo will be writ large in American cities across the country. Imagine having to dodge sniper fire on your way to get to your job at Wendy’s.
Because that’s the other thing no one is thinking about. You are still going to have to make a living while this is all going to be happening. And the cost of everything will skyrocket. Shipping will probably have to be escorted from place to place because people will be stealing or even blockading locations because they’re “damn dirty libs” or “Fascist Conservatives” Fresh produce will become a thing of the past.
Canada and Mexico will close their borders due to all the refugee’s trying to cross. so if you thinking of doing it, do it the moment everything pops off because otherwise you won’t get in.
Basically Civil war is going to the worst thing to happen in America in a long time. and the only good that comes out of it will be Americans will finally have first hand experience of real war torn violence. And maybe that will hopefully last for another two hundred years or so.
If America even survives the outcome that is.
If you’re really gung-ho about it, go and ask a Veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan about it and see what they think. If anyone will know about it they will.
My uncle that served in Iraq still wakes up screaming in the night. He’s a shell of the man he used to be. Another vet my age I knew was absolutely erratic after serving. He couldn’t hold a job and ended up homeless and assaulted someone for their spot under a bridge.
My whole family bears the scars of the PTSD from what my grandfather saw from WWII. He also woke up screaming for years afterward.
I had an old buddy who served in Vietnam. One time I asked him what it was like to kill someone. I’ll never forget his answer.
“You know, when you’ve got your rifle trained on somebody, there for a split second you’ve got the power of God in your hands. You get to decide if that person lives or dies. Nobody should have that kind of power. I only wish I had known that before I had done things that I couldn’t undo.”
He said he still had nightmares all the time, even 45 years later.
Do you think any kind of redemption can be palpably experienced by such folk?
… Americans don’t realize they’re already in a civil war? Bro a city is occupied. Secret police roam freely. Tens of thousands disappeared.
That isn’t a civil war. That is an autocracy. If the people across the state were coming in a militia to take over that would be a civil war.
Like say the marines being deployed to a us city
Where do you think the ICE agents are drawn from, buddy? Downtown St. Paul? Pedantic.
That isn’t a civil war though. It isn’t “pedantic” you just don’t know the definition of a civil war.
The definition you are talking about can’t happen anymore.
You can’t have a states vs states civil because it’s house vs house now. This is the modern world it isn’t like the past. This isn’t “farms in the south have slaves so we fight the south.”
It’ll be more “I always hated Paul from next doors view on immigration and now the day we go kill him” except every house. Nationwide.
So I get what your saying but I feel it’s you who should reconsider definitions
Webster is my favorite
Pedantic: disapproving relating to, or being a pendant (as in being overly concerned with minor details) overly scholarly.
Edit I should add I doo agree with you this is currently not that yet, but it won’t look like what you are describing either
It doesn’t mean your stupid it means the detail your hung up on is minor one and it’s not in the definition of a civil war: a war between opposing groups of citizens of the same country. It says nothing about regions or travel. It brother fighting brother. That’s a civil war.
I should add that I do agree with you this is currently not a civil war. It’s state employees vs citizens. But if a civil war comes it won’t be California marching into Texas. People will be attacking their neighbors.
Person calling someone else a pendant breaks out the dictionary definition of “pedantic” as the opening salvo of a multi paragraph hair splitting rant. This is the internet I signed up for.
You forgot the part where I specifically say I have a favorite dictionary and my multiple grammar mistakes. Lol
The only true segregation is wealth based, the last civil war had astoundingly clearly delineated lines and you still had brother killing brother. Modern war isn’t like that. It’s city by city with things totally calm 30 miles over. Moving like a cloud of death from community to community. Old grudges, family issues, bad neighbors, bad bosses, anything will get you killed.
Not a world i want to be in, no guarantee what this place looks like after, there isn’t a good guys win scenario, we’re in an oligarchy. Maybe it’s that shit Marx talked about, but i bet it’s Gilead.
Robert Evan’s has a great podcast about what a civil war might look like that he wrote before trump even got elected the first time I think. And boy does it hold up still.
Things he says like “the crumbles”
And how he talks about “ but today… you’ve got shit to do” talking about things just crumbling around you but you still got to go to the grocery store before the line forms. Or how “you’re alarmed you recognize how far away a mortar hit from now, and you know that one wasn’t a threat, then the second one hits to kill the survivors.
It’s not all read in the second person only intro but the rests goes on about how other countries experience civil wars and compares it .
Anyway it’s really good and quite terrifying.
It’ll be more “I always hated Paul from next doors view on immigration and now the day we go kill him” except every house. Nationwide.
Yeah, so the Purge.
Pretty much our point. It’s going to more like the purge than a war.
It won’t be heroic, it won’t be novel, it won’t benefit anyone at all if it comes down two war. It would be madness.
They are moving 1500 soldiers to Minneapolis to quell the “violence” which is basically people marching with signs and blocking traffic.
Ice agents are threatening to murder people and telling them they should have learned to be meek so they don’t get murdered like Goode
I’ve yet to see a major media outlet call it what it is.
It’s sheer cowardice at this point. The president himself has called it war.
There’s no armed fighting back, so it’s not a civil war it’s purging.
It may not have actually escalated into shooting yet, but the armed defense is certainly beginning.
Have a non Instagram link?
Sadly no. It’s a Black Panther (maybe the current chairman?) with a semi-auto shotgun making it clear what he intends to use it for.
The War on Drugs is an ongoing genocide. We lose the equivalent amount of life to a war every year because of gun violence. Things are way worse than people realize.
That’s not what a civil war is by definition
hit me up from the gulag when it meets your definitions, champ
You know you can still make your point but use the correct terminology
Which city? I’ve been keeping an eye on her news and I still feel like I miss shit
Chicago. LA. Minneapolis. And more, but those are currently the most egregious.
Not American, so feel free to stop reading.
It’s ridiculous to me how you yanks go from zero to a hundred like this. Either normality or civil war. Like there is no in between? You have an authoritarianism problem. So resist authoritarianism. What makes you think that the only way to resist is shooting people? Resistance is a spectrum, and you have barely started using democratic means to fight back (you just started electing democratic socialists), much less active procedural and institutional warfare (is Bernie demanding a vote for every procedural point requiring a vote? Are the Dems actually using any rat fucking tactic to make the state ungovernable? Are your local and state governments really resisting beyond making angry noises?). You have barely tried non violent resistance (not the same as peaceful!) but you’re such a violent culture that you jump straight to military solutions. Wtf. Those come at the very end, if everything else has failed. Has it? Nowhere near. So this talk about civil war, is that really useful?
The problem is that the steps between zero and a hundred are incremental rights which take decades to establish. If you are a non-American then you might have those steps already established, but currently the US does not. So once the status quo passes beyond the acceptable parameters the only possible solution is violence.
Another user I spoke with asked about collective rebellion, union strikes, and general resistance, but these don’t work if the infrastructure isn’t already in place. You can’t start a strike if you don’t have a union and your co-workers don’t agree, you can’t take up arms without at least a state level rebellion, most protests are effectively meaningless, and unless you are willing to give up everything (job, family, and well being) then you’ll never amount a significant resistance.
For the most part people want to live their lives with the least amount of fucking up they can. So long as the republican’s don’t fuck up their shit too much they will keep their heads down and vote in the elections.
Democrats and states both follow the same rules. They will try to counter the Republicans, but if that means a government shutdown with old people and the poor going without assistance then they are willing to cave. So far we aren’t at the point where any US group is willing to make real sacrifice to make a change, such as a fighting, going without, or causing their family to suffer.
You can’t start a strike if you don’t have a union and your co-workers don’t agree
This is a major point that those outside of the US seem to miss, I think. The sheer depth of contempt for unions and unionization I’ve experienced is a massive barrier to organizing any significant resistance. I’m very certain a majority of US citizens are unaware of what a general strike even looks like. Corporate propaganda has very successfully vilified and diminished unions for a long time.
On the one hand yes you are behind on some kinds of labour organizing.
On the other hand, it’s not that simple.
a) you have a very long history of minority organizing. Black Americans, Chicanos, indigenous people, and other minorities have survived for generations. It sounds like a leftie cliché, but you guys should really take leadership from them.
b) you don’t have the baggage that comes with entrenched left wing politics. There is a thing like too much left wing politicking. In Greece for example, land of spectacular antifa riots, the left is absolutely paralyzed and completely fragmented. Too much history, too many reasons to blame this or that left faction for what they did 10,20,30, sometimes 60 or more years ago. You have a chance to build on a green field.
c) one thing you Americans actually have going for you is that you guys actually believe in democracy. You’re true believers. It’s a thing we in the rest of the world have always kind of being weirded out by you that you want to be electing judges and sherrifs and school boards etc. And you actually have this libertarian steak in you that’s kind of interesting when it comes to resistance. You have so much democratic institutional hardware just lying around.
d) you actually are close to some of the powerful economic structures, institutions, and pop culture centres in the planet. Anything you do will and already does reverberate globally in ways that others don’t.
So, while you do have very big challenges you also have very big opportunities. And friends man, you have friends. I know we give you guys shit all the time, but trust me, when Americans rise up and stand up we all feel a bit taller. I’m telling you this as someone who listened to RATM on the way to weekly marches getting gassed by the police, thinking we were trying to be as cool as the WTO protests in Seattle.
I feel like what you are touching at is that liberals in the US, and Americans in general, are waiting for a touch stone. So far nothing has gone so far as to start the fire. On the other hand there has been no centralizing ember, someone to carry the torch.
Yes, the US has a long history of minority organizing, but minorities are one of the worst groups for turning out for elections (in fact minorities are more likely to turn out if they are voting for Republicans than they are for anyone else, a key element of being a conservative in the US is turning out to vote but liberals can’t seem to harness that energy).
The US doesn’t have the baggage as you mentioned, but the existence of the two party system carries a ton of baggage on it’s own and has effectively squashed most third party resistance.
Most American’s do believe in Democracy, but sadly one half is too stupid to know what it is and the other half only believes in it when it supports their ideas. The second group is one which would happily ban all abortions and then complain when a woman can’t get an abortion even though the pregnancy is killing her. My very own cousin is white trash poor with his children living on government assistance, but thinks we need to end welfare because the minorities are using it. These people are too stupid for governance.
To your final point, the US left needs a leader, a cult of personality to combat Trump, but there frankly isn’t anyone right now. So far no one high enough up in the social circle has been willing to stick their head out far enough to rally around.
I hate to say it, but the US is at the point where we need a life line. Just like the US coming in and occupying Germany to eliminate the Nazis, we now need an outside force to help fix our shit. Short of that the US needs another civil war, but I’m not so certain that it will go the way we want it.
The reasons you outlined are why you are in trouble. As in, if they weren’t the case you would be in trouble. It’s a bit of a circular tautology. But they are not things that doom you. They are the shape of the whole you’re in. And it’s on you guys to find a way out. There’s no way around that. And no, the world is not coming to save you: there is no cavalry.
I don’t think you guys are doomed. I think the opposite, that the American people are a sleeping giant that can shake the world. And no, I don’t think you need to jump straight to shooting reach other.
I think that’s all well and good unless you are wrong. From my perspective I think you are wrong, but maybe you aren’t. As things sit the people that are on your side think they are in trouble and want outside help, but you are saying “you’ll be fine.” The US has historically been the interventionist in the first world, but now they are in need of intervention. This has been the soul of the Republican argument for a long time, the US intervenes and the rest of the world does nothing. Now the Republican’s want to pull aid from allies and intervene (cough invade) only when it benefits them.
At the very least Europe needs to pick up the slack the US is dropping, even if they don’t go the extra mile to help fix the US. At the end of the day the US is steering towards needing foreign interventions, a civil war, or devolving into a totalitarian regime. Meanwhile the rest of the world is watching and wondering why we don’t just fix ourselves. I’ll tell you the sensible answer, I’m renewing my passport and making sure I have enough money for a last minute flight out of the country.
Well, take care. In the meantime, listen to the 20 lessons on tyranny.
And maybe binge watch this guy, I think he’s onto something.
You’re absolutely right. Generations jave been indoctrinated to give up autonomy and control to the system. People have been socially and economically backed into a corner where they don’t feel like they can make any real change in their lives.
They know transcending class barriers is impossible (though they lie to themselves about it) and they don’t really believe that politics make a difference. People don’t vote. They scrabble at shit jobs and go into debt to feel richer.
Violence is the one form of power they’re truly clinging to. A gun is a surrogate for control. It’s power you can exert in your narrow sphere.
Most of this perception is wrong, but it’s a part of the culture. The idea that the only way this can get fixed is violent civil war is a game of chicken with the ruling class and they’re betting that people won’t actually rise up.
You’re totally right. A war is the last avenue to take. But you also are here on Lemmy, so you must see the constant calls for US Americans to take up arms against one another, despite the fact that avenues remain.
Shit sucks here. Shit will suck a lot more if there’s a war. And it will suck here and everywhere else. A lot more.
Americans can not comprehend a gunless solution without pizza in the end
Every single leftist could have resisted a lot of this using the internet to spread a message.
Learned about it from this episode of the Team Human podcast
But what is happening in Hong Kong is they come up with a slogan, which is translated as Do Not Split, which is, we know that some people are willing to be confrontational with riot police.
And when they are, that’s going to cost the state in terms of not only resources, but it’s going to cost the state in terms of political capital and support. And we know that there are some people who are not willing to do that. And we are going to abide by the protocol of Do Not Split, which means that we’re not going to criticize them openly, and they’re not going to criticize us openly.
If we’re the pacifists, we’re not going to have them criticize us for being sort of like, I don’t know, limpid or flaccid or not courageous or whatever. And we’re not going to criticize them for being more confrontational. And the thing is that the support is also tacit.
It’s not like they have to come out and tell the media, oh, we approve of our more sort of confrontational colleagues. They just keep quiet. They just keep quiet.
Understanding that a range of tactics is probably going to be necessary. Nobody really knows what’s going to work. But if everybody’s pushing back against a particularly violent state, then everybody’s really on the same side.
Yes!
I was just talking to my wife about, if not this idea, then the ramifications of splitting. We were discussing how someone like Putin can stay in power, or how I think it would be touchy to have joint protests against Trump in the U.S., even as his support falters across the board – because I couldn’t imagine republicans with morals, disaffected MAGA, democrats, and leftists on the same side of a picket line.
My roommate watched a woman get dragged from her wrecked car, bleeding and screaming for help, being disappeared by ICE. They were recording and I’ve seen the video. I’ll probably never forget it. I carry a whistle now but I pray I’ll never need it. We’re like two weeks into whatever the fuck this is and I’m already sick of it. I’m tired of running to the window every time I hear a car alarm, I’m tired of wondering if I hear the wind or a whistle. I’m tired of worrying about more people I know getting abducted, and scrutinizing every vehicle that drives past if they’re going to fuck with me because I’m visibly queer and also trying not to be mistaken for the gestapo occupying my city. Is this an occupation? And I know war is worse. Fuck all of this.
What’s the whistle for? I think I may be out of the loop on this.
Lots of people are carrying whistles to blow if they see ICE, with the effect of calling more people with whistles to the scene to surround /harrass/confused ICE, and additionally warning neighborhoods of ICE presence.
Ah, interesting. Has it been working effectively? I could imagine ICE attempting to lure them away using a whistle of their own to create a false alarm.
Is there a specific whistle that they use? If any whistle will do, I can vouch for this one. It’s really loud.
I’ve printed and given away about 150 of these so far
Compact, strong, easy to print, and loud!
https://www.printables.com/model/417238-loudest-emergency-whistle
It’s not much different from a rape whistle I would guess
What OP doesn’t mention is that the memes are gonna be so on point!!
Finally. A comment about something that will actually happen.
I mean, I’m not joking, a good portion of humans need humor in the darkest hours, and creativity is boosted by all kinds of overwhelming emotions & chemicals.
I’m right there with you as a Laird of Levity.
… we are gonna get executed by our own sides due to the sheer dankness of our misunderstood memes, aren’t we?
/s won’t save you
I think there’s gonna be a lot of Asian American stores getting looted if this happens.
Asian diasporas are always considered the universal “soft target”, I mean just read the news.
We’d have LA Riots all over again, law enforcement will leave us to die while racist mobs lynch us.
Everyone needs a rooftop Korean.
remember all those attacks during and right after covid, it was against chinese/asians, and the news pratically stopped talking about it the next day. a white person , dare i say an AA person you would have news weeks on end about them.
Soft? Those folks were hard as fuck.
Unfortunately, most of us aren’t former ROK Army
they meant soft as in easy targets.
So did I. You wanna rob a store with armed koreans at the front door and on the rooftop? No one does now.
It was assumed to be a soft target. History proved otherwise.
Americans are sadly locked into the path of violence as the other path will force them to face their systemic racism, and corporate idolization which is clearly not going to happen.
It took Nicole Good to be face shot before people really started to react despite 4 other similar events with non white females and I am constantly shocked how many Americans defend corporations that are literally exploiting them. America is cooked unfortunately as like most humans, myself included, we tend to become blind with power.
Renee Good was her name. Not Nicole. Sucks that attention was only given after a white LGBT woman was killed. Still sucks even more that she was killed. I am haunted by the pictures of her glove box. It was filled with stuffed animals for her child.
It was Nicole. Renee Nicole Good
Corporations became the dominate force in our culture and in every culture around the world. 90% + of all policy in the whole world is written by corporations. There isn’t a country that exist without widening income inequality.
It would be great if this was just an American problem. It isn’t. The wealthy will use their favorite proxy the corporation to run humanity into the ground. They have already poisoned the entire planet time and time again. They are the biggest threat humanity has ever seen.
They make the Nazi look wholesome. Remember it was IBM that developed the numbering system for Jews and also helped figure out how many Jews needed to be cleared out of the Ghetto daily for the final solution. Likewise MS, Google, Meta, etc. have been giving material support to genocide.
For me it was the blunt justification of horrific indiscriminate killing of children with sniper rifle, tens of gun shots, and dropping bomb dirctlt on school and hospital. Seeing how the media did everything to cover it up, politician working overtime to censor protest, and Democrat , and Republican presidents shipping an absurd amount of tax money directly to fund the genociders what made it clear that the US corporations, and government will kill anything in their way to ensure US and other nations are slave.
The only way around this is to wait until US invade another Nato or EU country and for these country to withdraw rich people ability to leave the US. Then a revolution might be successful.
Honest question: were the other events filmed like Rene’s killing was? My hypothesis is that’s it’s more about the available footage of the incident than the victim’s demographics… But the USA is racist as fuck so I could be wrong.
you could say they were either build up or outshined by Nicole shooting. plus she was protesting ice for deporting people to labor camps. its not “this one thing did it” its gradual
I am not sure the point you are trying to make. Can you rephrase please.
More like This War of Mine, maybe.
A game so depressing I stopped playing.
Same. Powerful, though.
Great post.
However, from a European perspective all this has been a long time coming, ignoring all warnings and with open arms (pun not intended).
So for the US I don’t see how it can be fixed without going through this.
I’m sorry.
As another European, I don’t think it’s as bad as it seems. I personally don’t think most republicans are fundamentally fascist, more so convinced that Trump is playing 5d chess.
If you where to ask most Republicans if they supported democracy, right of law and freedom for all, they would say that they support it.
However, due to the tribalism of current American politics and the cult of personality around Trump, they aren’t seeing how that is being infringed.
Trump is almost 80, and will die eventually. With him will his cult of personality die. Some hardliners will probably latch on to Trump Jr or Vance, but most republicans will probably quietly switch over to supporting some more moderate dumb fuck (think Mitt Romney).
Around 84% of Republicans approve of what is clearly kidnapping murder and open fascism as we are threatening half the world, planning on invading a NATO country, and stealing oil from Venezuela. Conservatives are absolutely our enemy.
Hard disagree. The Republican politicians are not leading the masses to dark places, the masses are pulling the politicians to greater extremes and the politicians are holding them back, because they have a greater understanding of the consequences than the average voter.
Ask the average Republican if undocumented I’m immigrants should all be deported, and they will tell you yes. That’s 14 million people, and the only way to accomplish it is to build up ICE to 5 times it’s current size, and do what they are doing in Minneapolis in every city in America. What they want requires fascism.
Ask them if abortion is murder and they will say yes. They don’t care about the women that are dying from pregnancy complications, the children that will be orphaned, the families that have been torn apart because the treatment for many conditions is abortion of the pregnancy and if it’s murder you can get treatment.
Ask them if environmental regulations are too stiff and should be rolled back so the economy can grow, and they will say yes, they don’t care about the ecosystems that will be lost forever, the diseases that people will suffer from pollution, or the rights of communities to avoid those harms.
What holds them back is that individuals don’t all want the same things, so the party pulls in different directions, because some people understand the disaterous implications of a specific policy, so they don’t support that particular cruelty, but they don’t question the wider ideology, and the basic ideology is a death cult.
What you get over time is generational frustration that the corrupt politicians refuse to do what is necessary and support for more and more extreme individuals in office. People that hatch plans like the federalist society, to corrupt the courts, and project 2025, to destroy the administrative state and consolidate power into the executive, and congresspeople who will support the descent into violent fascism, because that’s what is required to give the masses what they demand.
Democracy slows down the process, but the American voters will get the cruelty, suffering, and death they demand eventually.
Right, but that all comes from upstream, with Conservative media (and politicians) focusing all their attention on “wedge issues” to distract their base from their ruinous fiscal policies, gutting the government services their base would benefit from to steal more wealth for the ultra wealthy.
Those outlets would not publish that propaganda if it did not sell. It’s not that there is no interplay, but the media figures pushing the fascist propaganda have no incentive to stop and cannot be forced to stop without abandoning core principles of our society (freedom of speech)
Executing, exiling, or dispropriating enough billionaires would make a difference, but again, you need fascist tools to stop the decent into fascism. There is a significant segment of our society that wants the violence. Not a majority, but enough that I see no peaceful way through. The violence will come for us eventually.
Again, that’s backwards. The billionaire bought the media companies so they can push their message and shift public discourse.
It’s not about profitability; they target engagement/profitability by making everything rage bait.
Sure, the billionaires are the ultimate problem. They are not the office holders.
It deosnt matter if trump dies, the Republican party has pretty mich made up their mind that there won’t be an election in the future.
They don’t care about public opinion anymore judging by everything they did in 2025 and all the rich oligarchs in america are either part of their club or are pressured to comply.
And with the epstine files pretty much out now the higher ranking Republicans are too scared to five up their power with the possibility of them getting prosecuted afterwards.
Even without Trump, the only way to get rid of the fascists will be to forcefully remove them which will end in a civil war.
Vance will be worse; in general the removal of Trump won’t make it better.
I dont have any words to add and hope you’re right.
Im glad you’ve said this. Before I saw The Death of Yugoslavia, I honestly believed that modern warfare was clean, clinical, and restricted to willing combatants. That the Geneva Conventions, various constitutional statements, and human honour and decency were a part of modern wars. At least since Vietnam.
No. I was disabused of that notion by this documentary. Yes, I agree, the BBC shouldn’t have the last word on a war in Eastern Europe. The BBC probably shouldn’t have the last word on anything. However, they did happen to have the first word — to me — on the importance of understanding how modern wars get started, how they progress, and chillingly, why they don’t end. It’s a sad, slow, solemn march into oblivion.
Terror is a part of large scale wars (wars that aren’t a few little skirmishes), so civilian population gets bombed (bcs terror is effective, it damages morale & puts pressure on politics to surrender & end fighting). USA is no stranger to that.
I think the country splits into multiple nations before a true all out conflict. Maybe a 4 part split.
Old South Northeast Some kind of Texas southern alliance with other states in the Louisiana purchase Northwest and Pacific coast.
The problem with this idea is that it assumes that those areas are politically aligned. I highly doubt people in liberal areas like Austin are going to be okay with being lumped in with whatever happens in Texas and I am confident that the Native Americans in Oklahoma will never be okay with it.
The divide in the US is largely rural vs urban not north vs south or east vs west anymore.
People tend to migrate during such events, that’s what a refugee is. Restructurings like this often kill more people than they attract, but they do still attract them. And more still get fucked by bad luck. See: literally any country creating event, good or bad.
Yep, exactly.
State borders don’t represent the relevant people groups well at all.
Go look at the greater Idaho movement to see basically exactly what I mean, a decade long drive to break the eastern counties of WA and OR off, and into joining Idaho.
The other huge problem is this:
Cities are generally like islands, need power, water, food, which typically comes from places outside the city.
So you don’t need to even seige them, you just cut the links, and they’ll largely tear themselves apart.
But the flip side of that is that they’re also major logistics hubs and manufacturing centers, by and large… and, most stuff that gets produced outside a city has to go into a or at least near a city at some point before it can actually become something useful, or find an actual market.
So its a kind of … not quite MAD, but almost, more like mutually assured misery.
One thing you can take away is that anyone, in any location during something like this, is going to benefit from being as autarkic and resourceful as they can be, at whatever scale makes sense in a particular situation.
The big superstructures of society basically just break, and you, your buddies, your community, whatever, people with secondary backup plans, alternative economies, largely decoupled systems for providing the bare minimum + a few luxuries, thats what has a better chance of making it through something like this.
Oh, along with that comes: Repair everything, the consumable model of ‘stuff’ is now an insane death trap, not a flex.
Anything complex is unlikely to be easily, wholly replaced… makes a lot more sense to fix up shit, re use and clean up everything that can be reused and cleaned up safely.
Oh right, and uh, kiss the idea of generally free and safe medium to long distance travel goodbye.
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its called balkanization. pretty much, the northwest coast will be its own constituition, probably combine or allie with some of the east coast states. its very similar to how CNC3 game lore ended up.
Cyberpunk 2020 (the original tabletop game) kinda predicted that sort of outcome.
North East, West Coast then what will be globally known as The Asscrack right up the middle. Texas will be known as the Purple Star state.
I doubt that America as we know it can survive, period. There needs to be a change - whether that’s about wealth classes, political beliefs, or various -isms. We can’t use a system that was intentionally broken to fix things. The words of slavers from 250 years ago are too weak. The way that things have developed across the regions of this massive, unwieldy, federation needs amendment.
Unfortunately, right now the pendulum is swinging hard in one direction. There’s no meaningful fighters on the other side. So us little people have to cling to hope - and that hope is increasingly looking like it has to come from force, and from the barrel of a gun.
There’s simply too much centralized power there. You need something more of a union of independent states with very limited “federal” power, much like the EU. Sure, there will never be a clean consensus on anything, but at least there’s no chance a single grifter can seize so much power to wield that they can basically just do whatever to whoever within the federation and beyond.
We had that briefly, but it’s been decreasing steadily since the 1870s.
A real civil war wouldn’t last longer than three weeks here in the US. A small group of whacked-out people love the idea of it, but they certainly have not thought it through. It’s just a fun thought for them because they have never cracked open a history book and don’t have any real perspective regarding what war actually means.
This is the country that couldn’t go three weeks without a haircut or toilet paper in 2020. People would walk into their first empty grocery store, toting their big impressive AR-15 rifles, and then demand that the war be ended.
YSK: The average citizen doesn’t have much control over the cork in the bottle.
This administration is repeatedly and consistently provoking people. Randomly shooting people in the face, and talking about sending the military to Minnesota is going to cause things to boil over if the other people we elected don’t step in and force them to cool down.
