Now it’s an international matter of national security. Let’s go world, time to de-americanize your tech.
Yes, but, from the article: ”GrapheneOS also says governments and banks are increasingly adopting these verification systems for things like payments, digital ID apps, and age verification services.
“Instead of governments stopping Apple and Google from engaging in egregiously anti-competitive behavior, they’re directly participating in locking out competition via their own services,” Graphene said."
Exactly, it’s not only about fighting Google, it’s also about setting a better, more open standard for the rest of the market.
Recently my bank has rolled out a new mobile app now relying on Google wallet for NFC payment. I was able to use NFC payment on GrapheneOS on the old app, I can’t on the new one. The online banking stuff still works (for now) but no more mobile payment for me. I didn’t sign a fucking contract with Google, why would I hand over my payment data to them !
You need to call your bank and the media. Word has to get out.
I mean, a bank is a bank, they are all very similar. Unless you have an extremely good interest rate on it, I would just close the account and go elsewhere. Make sure to tell them on the way out that’s why.
Alternatively you can just transfer funds to another app and keep using their bank and use the other account as the NFC payment one but, that’s too complicated for my tastes.
How would I know which bank to go too ? It’s comes down to the details of how they implement their phone app. I don’t think you would find this information anywhere.
I mean, I know a lot of people don’t like doing it anymore but calling and asking has a fairly decent chance of working if online gives no details.
Personally I’m unsure how a bank could even force NFC to go through a specific provider, mine has always just issued virtual card numbers whenever I enrolled, And if the bank itself didn’t support the provider automatically, I always called the bank to manually approve getting the virtual number. it’s a little confusing to me that your bank even blocks the ability to in the first place. I would have thought you would have been able to use any mobile wallet that works on Graphene OS. Being said those are limited last I knew
edit: rereading it. I see what you mean. You mean through your bank’s app as a native solution. Yeah, you’re just gonna have to call the banks for that one. I would assume that customer service would definitely know whether or not it’s through Google Pay or through their own system.
alot of countries have fully bought into the surveillance thing, UK is planning to give NHS full acces to its patient database to PALANTIR.
Yep, my own government (UK), have rolled out a digital ID app that only works with Play Services intact, so I had to jump through hoops to prove my ID so I could renew my driving licence. It’s bullshit.
Yup, unless we decouple the incentives behind these all our systems and products the end result will always be: Hey Everyone, meet the new boss! Same as the old boss!
I just made the switch to Graphene a few days ago and I found it fitting that my government’s digital id app couldn’t be installed on my phone anymore. Oh well.
Where do we find another furious person to start the equivalent of SKG, but this time against Apple Google duopoly, to get a hearing before the EU parliament?
The fact that national governments and banks require Apple / Google device attestation in the current geopolitical situation is a damn sabotage.
Maybe the EU can slap some fines on that? It’s anti competitive and against the DMA i assume
The EU can fine them for things like this but it won’t make much difference. To provoke long term change, we need a way to block them from our countries and that’s impossible.
They can also enforce changes if they want access to the EU market
We can’t afford to start a real war with them because they control far too much of our technology. Yes, we could threaten to block their access to our markets but what if they don’t change their behaviour? Do we go through with it? Some of their services are critical to our daily lives and just one day without a few of them and entire systems would collapse.
EDIT: Big tech corporations like Google are more powerful than governments. While they are not invulnerable to sanctions, we may lose as much or more than they do if we take drastic action without viable alternatives.
I agree that it’s too early, but disagree that it would never be possible. If the EU can successfully move away from Microsoft like they’re trying to do now, then I think that will provide an excellent model for moving away from other tech monopolies.
Really its a much bigger problem then that. Where do you get your switches or computers. Sure there are European PC builders but who makes the parts. American companies control a lot of infrastructure and the fact nobody thought that was a problem is just ridiculous.
This is just looking at the material reality of the problem. I can’t effectively threaten someone who I’m heavily dependent on without present alt. Kinda how Trump got slapped when he tried economic coercion on China. If the EU has a domestic alternative to Big Tech’s cloud services that’s in wide use and easy to scale up, the they can legitimately threaten Big Tech. That said even then that would not be enough given the newly developed dependence on US - LNG. Threaten Big Tech and the US threatens cutting off the gas supply. A gas supply shortage topples governments.
The reality is that they are powerful but if they were to become actice participants in some hypothetical war the governments could freeze and withold funds with the swipe of a pen.
There are a lot of regs around the freedom of funds and stopping that if there is a legitimate national security risk. The US is doing it right now with funds provided from the EU to purchase weapons for Ukraine. The US is not fulfilling orders because they blew their load murdering innocent children in Iran.
Their power is fragile though. The EU has sanctioned big tech in the past and will do so again. Sure they could screw us over hard but that’d hurt their profits significantly more than complying and as slaves to their shareholders they will not do that.
We shall not bow to tech twinks.
You think Google is going to abandon the EU market over timely releases of their AOSP code and the ability to install apps from outside the playstore?
No, I don’t think so. I don’t think they would ever abandon the EU market. I was thinking more along the lines of a “malicious compliance” approach, where they would make it more difficult for us to access certain services.
Please note that I am not against fining and fighting Google and other big tech companies. Sorry if my comments make it seem like I am.
This is literally their latest attempt at malicious compliance so you’re not wrong. EU will play ball for sure.
sometimes you need to be stubborn and disallow all alternatives for better solutions to be developed. trying to use the big tech shit will inevitably always end in enshitification.
grow some balls, say no and create alternatives if they don’t budge. nothing else will work. and as soon as you have alternatives, everything will get easier
You’re so out-of-touch if you believe that the EU is against this.
It’s especially weird coming from an apparent German. You know all that rhetoric about how the internet is no “wild west”. That means locking everything down. Only the properly licensed professionals are allowed to do stuff with properly regulated tools. That’s how it goes in Germany.
This stuff is what Google is supposed to do.
This is a matter of anti-competitive behavior and market manipulation. And historically, the EU has always been against that (especially if it’s detrimental to them, of course).
They’re in favor of regulation, but definitely not of individual companies handling it.
No. That’s not what these words mean.
Anti-competitive practices are business or government practices that prevent or reduce competition in a market. Antitrust laws ensure businesses do not engage in competitive practices that harm other, usually smaller, businesses or consumers. These laws are formed to promote healthy competition within a free market by limiting the abuse of monopoly power.
It’s exactly what these words mean.
I hope every de-googled os goes completely open source supportive. And i hope people choose these os’s over google or any other closed source/centralized company
And world peace and the end of hunger too.
Sadly most people will get slowly boiled like a frog. People got comfortably numb and they want everything spoonfed. They won’t learn new things, they won’t wean off big services that make everything convenient.
The issue is that a lot of everyday services depends on Google.
If your bank decides it integrates with Google Play Services, well fuck you, your degoogled device won’t work anymore and you’ll have to switch banks or forego using your device for banking.
Every corpo is pushing hard to interwind themselves with your day to day so that they become the gatekeepers of your life and rent seek.
It’s easy for us to find an alternative because we are tech litterate, but not everyone has the knowledge to do so and it is increasingly hard to do so.
I don’t think it’s a matter of knowledge, more of mindset. If enough people even cared, banks would not enforce any changes that would require to use Google play safetynet.
Btw, banks shouldn’t even need apps. A webpage with local storage (PWA) should suffice for 99% of banking stuff.
I’m not sure if “rival” is the right term. Seems like Google would be very happy to be a monopoly.
Well, yeah, we’re well into the stage where it’s not quality that sells Google products and services.
This is the Pillaging Stage of Google’s business: as they screw both customers and users (Google’s customers aren’t their users) for short term “growth” they can only hold market share by taking advantage of market barriers to entry, networking effects and their current market share to force both customers and users to keep on using Google products and services.
The irony of having this in the middle of the article
The capitalists will sell us the noose with which we will hang them? or however it goes…
LMAO
Most people don’t care.
Hell I’m even the “weird one” only because I tend to use FOSS options when I can.
Who the hell would use YouTube over NewPipe??
Brothers in arms mate. I use FOSS whenever absolutely possible. I hear about a new type of service, and my first criteria before evaluating it is, can I run it as FOSS? If the answer to that question is no, then I immediately reject that new service until I can use it in a FOSS manner. Do not pass go. Do not collect one Monero.
I did not know about new pipe. Thank you
Pipepipe is working better for me
Ymusic is better in my opinion, it’s not taking eternity to update subscriptions…
Is there an advantage to using newpipe if I pay for premium?
You can stop giving Evil Inc your hard earned money
It’s like 5usd for a family plan in my country. I doubt that’s making a dfference. Also, I sincerely doubt you’re not using any Google services/products in your life. Not to mention that there are plenty of "evil inc"s out there.
Re: 5 USD. Google makes most of it’s money from advertising - which works by tracking everything you do and building detailed profiles of you.
Re: I sincerely doubt you’re not using any Google services/products in your life. Not to mention that there are plenty of "evil inc"s out there. This might not be intentional, but it sounds to me like whataboutism combined with “there is no perfect option, so we shouldn’t do anything”. 90% reduction in use of google services, is better than not doing anything. Heck, 10% reduction is better. Whatever gets you started on the journey. And as a lot of people have correctly identified, it’s not easy. It takes time.
Google makes most of it’s money from advertising - which works by tracking everything you do and building detailed profiles of you.
So the answer’s “no”? Gotcha. I do try to avoid using google products and I do use extensions to try to prevent tracking. So maybe they’re making less money off of me than others? Who knows.
This might not be intentional, but it sounds to me like whataboutism combined with “there is no perfect option, so we shouldn’t do anything”.
Not even close my friend. However, you can’t fight every single battle. I try to pollute as little as possible, selfhost everything I can, don’t buy things I don’t really need, etc. Regarding youtube though? I just wanted to watch videos without ads on my tv and it cost me next to nothing to be able to do that.
Pro tip :P you can use "> " to quote text. It’s easier to read.
“My small contribution to evil is meaningless “. Gotcha.
You’re so far off the mark that I’m not even going to keep spending my time to explain why.
More privacy
I feel the days of free YouTube front ends is coming to an end. I’m honestly surprised they’re still alive. Didn’t they try to kill yt-dlp recently? Together with their playstore developer verifications, YouTube VPN restrictions, making life harder for Android derivatives, YouTube ad blockers, and on and on, I don’t see a bright future for anything that piggybacks off of Google’s back.
I’m still waiting for a mobile phone manufacturer to support a free OS. Until then I’ll stick to degoogled android.
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Im just waiting for somebody to make a plan for resistance. So far the best I have seen is going to the doorsteps of google to cry and beg them to stop.
thats not my cup of tea
But I think the real reason nobody is doing this is the paradigm of reasonability.
Nobody want to step their foot down, because that’s not reasonable. We are supposed to make it work like the wife exposed to domestic violence.
But we need to stop being reasonable and start being assertive.
But for real, I think GrapheneOS could take this stand if they’ve got the balls.
GrapheneOS uses Google hardware and depends on Google publishing the Device Tree Blob to create their software over.
By branching with Motorola, it gives them more viability for when Google decide they won’t publish the DTB anymore (it will happen).
But GrapheneOS is still dependant on Motorola not being dicks.
European institutions and apps should be banned from employing reCAPTCHA, Google’s Play Integrity API and Apple’s App Test API, if this is how they are to function. At the same time, Apple and Google need to be sanctioned for this approach, as I am certain that it violates fair competition laws.
Google and the Open Web
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Embrace
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Extend
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Extinguish <-- we’re here
Ah yes, the 4X buisness strategy. Building an empire through four core pillars:
eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate
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Graphene OS need to develop their own app store.
They already have one. Maybe they could partner with F-droid…
Time to branch out, get more manufacturer support like Motorola and champion the consumer. C’mon graphene throw us a bone.
More anti-trusts lawsuits please. Just put a fine of no lesser than a 100 Billion $ on these parasites.
I don’t understand why Google would do this. I mean, you sell a phone that has an alternative operating system that runs well on it, and you sell more phones, right? Or do they actually sell hardware at a loss? Is that what’s happening?
Google is an advertising company. Everything they do is about collecting data to feed their advertising arms.
It’s been incredibly clear for a long time that the combination of greed, stupidity, and selfishness does not care about making money based on consumer happiness.
Product is a higher quality so people will buy more? That could mean that someone else can make a better thing, and implies choice. Bettee to just assure that the competition doesn’t exist and then we can make shittier, cheaper things that cost even more.
Four day work-weeks are more productive and make people happier? It also means they’ll expect respect and we can’t have that.
Basing the entire world power supply on gasoline is clearly a terrible idea and we should be looking to have a diverse set of sources, many of which are renewable? How about we just make up a bunch of lies and propaganda so that we never need to change?
Sony had to come up with lithium-ion batteries for their products because battery manufacturers were plenty happy making lead-acid and telling everyone who wanted more to go fuck themselves.
The reason you don’t understand is because you assume that there’s a level of morality to capitalism and to corporate decision making. There is less than zero, it’s awful on purpose.
Hardware they sell is probably a loss or super low margin.
Damn America loves itself a duopoly.
Writing has been on the wall about what would happen with no adequate balances in place to prevent this kind of takeover.
Unfortunately, that’s the lesson they learned from why monopolies are bad…
We had our chance to buy a Windows Mobile phone 🤣
