So much for the constitution
Criminals have easy access to real guns, they won’t bother with printing plastic ones. A terrorist will just go to a place where they don’t monitor to print them.
This is so stupid. This is written by people who don’t understand 3D printing. This will catch nothing but fake guns that don’t work because they were printed in one solid piece, it won’t catch all the little pieces that you assemble afterwards.
In case anyone is wondering why something so idiotic: The destruction of 3D printing: Bloomberg is behind it - YouTube
Of course this is not something a rag like the register and a fraudulent “Cybersecurity reporter” Connor Jones would tell you, but instead trying to actively hide from you. Even thought the evidence is right there. They’d rather tell you some stupid story.
This is yet another mad plutocrat meddling in democracy and neoliberalism and pundits providing some nonsense explanation to distract people.
Shit, now how will I manufacture illegal sex toys and sex toy accessories in a covert, anonymous fashion? Woe is me…
This feels idiotic?
So now you can be a cyberpunk black market tech peddler for real?
Oh no, don’t. Firmware can’t be flashed /s
smh
There are devices now that have a SoC that’s completely locked down at the factory, although maybe none are 3D printers. It deserves more attention as the massive threat to digital freedom that it is.
There are devices now that have a SoC that’s completely locked down at the factory, although maybe none are 3D printers.
That has been around for decades. I mean one time programmable microcontrollers has been around since at least the 90s, and probably earlier IDK I didn’t start doing embedded development until the 2000s. I guess devices with readout disabled has been around for about as long. I have no idea how much it is used in 3d printers though.
If you just don’t buy something locked down on a hw level, then because of the tinker tradition in 3d printing, you can relatively easy flash the firmware.
It deserves more attention as the massive threat to digital freedom that it is.
Yes, agreed. My point was on the futility of the law. But the fact of the matter is that the law exists and it shouldn’t from a freedom perspective. This is presented as a DRM issue, not a gun control issue. Should we ban printers because you may print a news article without buying the rights? Should we ban pen and paper because you could use it to infringe on a trademark by drawing it?
That has been around for decades.
TIL! Then it’s interesting that it didn’t get bigger faster, since the idea of locking people into your product isn’t new. Like, Dell could have been doing in 2000 what Samsung is now with it’s phones, and Linux would have been dead in the water.
Edit: Oh right, there weren’t any SoCs yet, at least at full scale. At the very least, you could always get out your probes and flash the ROM that way.
Should we ban printers because you may print a news article without buying the rights? Should we ban pen and paper because you could use it to infringe on a trademark by drawing it?
Of course, history is over, and all governments and corporations are 100% trustworthy. We don’t need to consider that opportunity for evil can’t actually be eliminated, just moved around. /s
Let’s get rid of, or use less, plastic! No, says coffee pods and 3d printers.
While I get what your saying, I do think 3D printers reduce waste as they allow people to fix there own stuff
Yup, plastic parts on headset broke. Could not wear it in a useable manner anymore, taping did not hold.
Printed replacement parts (which I could not buy anywhere), still using it today. Good as new.
3D printing is a blessing if you’re not just using it to print flex-dragons.
They’re using weapon printing as the wedge, but this is really about protecting all manufacturers.
This is the thing imo. Come in under “ban ghost guns” but 10 years from now you try to print a new battery door for your remote and get blocked because the design is the property of Samsung.
Fuck Bambu and co, I’ll keep my voron around as long as humanly possible
It’s more about protecting companies like Disney, Nintendo, etc, not replacement parts. 3D printing is rife with copyright infringement, and companies like those would absolutely love a way to block their IP from being printed, or to be able to sue those who do it.
…and this is why roght to repair laws need to be enforced heavily. If your stupid joystick is broken on purpose so you can squeeze $100 out of me every 6 months, i have a right and duty to correct it for myself and anyone who asks.
(But fr tho stop buying nintendo products. They absolutely arent worth the moral weight and consumer disrespect. Pokemon is an incredibly lazy rpg design meant to sell toys)
The way I see it, a person can print a company’s IP as long as they’re not trying to sell it.
What are they going to do, sue me for drawing a picture of mario or making kirby out of clay? Printing for personal use is the same concept.
I could see them going after 3D model designers who post stls of their IP. Personally I think if they’re not selling it then it shouldn’t be an issue, but I don’t think the companies would see it that way, and I don’t know exactly where the law stands on it.
This is why they can’t simply pass IP laws, but they’re sneaking it in with the pretense of “protecting the children” (when most school shootings happen with guns that were legally obtained by the shooter or their parents…)
Yeah, I don’t see how this is a problem. I mean people make all kinds of things without 3D printing. Think of a Star Wars stormtrooper set of armor. People have been making those for decades, and selling them, before 3D printers took over some of the work. I’m sure IP is part of the reason companies want to regulate 3D printing, but I’d also be willing to bed that they want to do the same shit they always do - insert themselves in the middle and force you to pay for designs. Whether it’s a Mario bros. minifig or a replacement knob for your clothes dryer.
I already have a modest library of stls on the nvme ssd in my linux laptop, and they can pry those out of my cold dead fingers, along with my 3D printer that works without an internet connection and I will never connect it to the internet or upgrade its firmware.
I’m like racing to purchase all the tech I might need in the next decade or so before they make it impossible to find non-userlocked hardware without a bunch of obligatory backdoors. It sucks because everything is just so unnecessarily expensive now. I wish I had started sooner but I thought I was being financially responsible at the time by not splurging…
Like I have a DMR and an SDR, a raspberry pi, a few different MCUs, some FPGAs and CPLDs, a collection of various electronic components, rechargeable batteries of various kinds, a couple powerbanks and a portable 30W solar panel. A logic probe, multimeter, gauss meter. A kit for an oscilloscope that I haven’t built yet.
Next I want to build a homelab, I’m already working on collecting the things I need for that. I also want to get a higher capacity power bank and a 100W portable solar panel. I want to get a weather station, air quality sensor, geiger counter, etc. I just can’t purchase it all at once.
Meanwhile I also need to install all the software packages I would need, or at least download their package builds so I can install them when I need to. I want to make an archive of several different linux ISOs, a library of game assets from itch.io, etc., as many kiwix libraries as possible, etc. etc. etc.
I have this nagging feeling that the downfall of modern society, supply chains, the classic internet infrastructure, etc., is right around the corner, and it feels like a race against time to prepare everything I would need to establish my own little intranet “island” that I could later mesh with others when the time comes. Which also means learning cybersecurity. Sigh…
They do try and sell it though, that’s the problem.
Then they should go after the commercial use of unlicensed intellectual property, not the ownership of a 3D printer…
Don’t for one second think I’m defending these laws and the dolts making them. To them, being able to control what you can print in the first place is 10000000x more powerful than trying to sue everyone that sells them.
How long was building your voron? And how much did it cost you?
I would like to do it in the future, but right now time is a big constraint for me
mine the older 2.1 design and scratch built. Hard to say because a lot of parts were grabbed from other projects
If I were starting today I’d just get a kit. The LDO kit is the standard and high quality but pricier.~1500 for 350mm. There’s the formbot kit as well, much cheaper (~800 for 350mm) but not as nice quality wise. Never used one of these kits but that’s the general sentiment on the forums now. West3d also has a kit builder, this is def the most expensive option but if you plan to install a bunch of mods this can save you some money buy bundling them at the beginning (but honestly if you’ve never built one before I’d start with the vanilla build)
Time wise it’s not too bad, sort of. I would say if you’re a tinkerer type person you could build it in a weekend, especially with a kit. However, you may spend quite a bit more time calibrating everything. Like the time from a box of shit to actually printing isn’t terrible, but the time to getting a beautiful dimensionally accurate print is potentially a bit more involved, especially before you get it printing fast (if you pursue such a thing)
That’s honestly the primary reason Bambu is destroying in terms of sales right now (plus aggressive marketing). They are shit bc they are consumer hostile, but they do make good equipment. You can get a solid print right from the first startup. You can with voron too tbf but it’s like comparing an iphone to desktop Linux: the former is easier to setup and has a lot of slick features for use, the latter can replicate almost all of them but takes a bit more time to get going (and because it’s open design can be taken much further once you get the hang of it, vorons can get amazing quality at incredibly fast speeds though tbf some of those mods to get truly fast can be pricy)
Alternatively look on their discord or somewhere like Craigslist/facebook marketplace. I see people sell LDO builds for like 6-900 a lot. Resale is tough because once built it’s a nightmare to ship so they drop value like crazy and then you can (hopefully) get one that’s at least printing decently
I got gifted a Bambu P1S a few years ago, but customization is pretty limited.
I like the idea of the Voron and it’s upgradability but the initial time investment was really high for me.
Thanks for sharing your information. I am a tinkering person, so I don’t feel lost when doing projects like that, but since I am in Canada, sourcing parts was terrible when I looked a few years ago. The LDO kits seem pricy, but I will look for alternatives. But at least, the option’s there.
FWIW from what I’ve read the formbot kit seems to be pretty serviceable, almost 50% less and is still pretty good, though by most accounts I’ve seen the LDO kit is objectively better (for a significant premium)
The nice thing is that I can upgrade along the way, so even taking the formlab kit, I can slowly upgrade the parts if I want to.
WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE IP HOLDERS!!!
Even more pointless than DRM on movies.
https://all3dp.com/2/how-to-build-a-3d-printer-from-a-kit-or-from-scratch/
Don’t worry. It won’t be long before possession of an unregistered 3D printer becomes a crime, too.
I thought this bill did that, but it looks like they crossed out the consumer circumvention clauses anyway.
That seems like a nightmare to set up.
Feels like people casually mocking car registration by pointing to the Hot Rod from Home Improvement.
I mean, sure. It can be done. But I failed to install a water cooling kit in my computer after a very long and harrowing weekend. I’m not fucking with this.
It more like mocking car registration because every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day, the city already has several thousand car factories that don’t require registration, there’s no mechanism to enforce registration, and the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars. The motivation for requiring registration is also to stop people from driving full speed into fast food restaurants is custom built murder buggys. Yeah, you don’t want people to do that but it’s not like it really happens all that often.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch. It’s basically screwing parts together and plugging colored wires into matching slots.
every neighborhood has a few people who can build you a car from scratch in a day
How many cars does the city demand be produced each day? Cause my own city of Houston sees over 380k new cars sold annually.
the city already has several thousand car factories that don’t require registration
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
there’s no mechanism to enforce registration
Until you get pulled over
the cost of building a new car is a few hundred dollars
A plastic car that can go maybe a few hundred miles before falling apart if it’s made perfectly.
Building a 3d printer from a kit is different from building one from scratch
You can build cars from a kit, too. But I’m not going to do that when I can buy a used Corolla or KIA for couch cushion money and drive it into the ground over the next fifteen years.
I’m not sure honestly sure what your point is, because you went a bit too far with the analogy.
Itty bitty ones, sure. And they take weeks to produce a working vehicle, of substandard quality.
This was about regulating 3d printers, not guns. A diy printer, a new drm printer and an old not-drm printer produce the same quality output.
A diy 3d printer is just as durable as a purchased one.
If your goal is to have an unregistered car, or in this case a drm free printer, the law seems silly when you can get one for cheaper than the “proper” one and have it out together in an afternoon if you have highschool level mechanical aptitude.
I’m not sure honestly sure what your point is
3D printers produce plastic crap.
Okay? What does that have to do with the drm mandate being easy to get around?
Is your point that it’s okay to put unenforceable, easily bypassed restrictions on stuff if you think they’re bad?What does that have to do with the drm mandate being easy to get around?
You can get around the DRM mandate with a bicycle. That doesn’t mean you’ve solved the underlying problem
You’d think with a title that says “California just passed a law”, that it would actually be about California passing a law. It still has to go through the senate and then get signed by the governor.
Edit: The bill was passed in the Assembly back in May. This is a nearly 3 month old article.
I’d love to know how they expect printer manufacturers to do this, given all they do is read gcode. Do the legislation makers even know what a slicer is?
I went to a CA committee hearing (and I got to meet Louis Rossmann in the process) and I guarantee you the people supporting this bill and the committee voting on it generally have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about.
Serious question: why do they feel like they are qualified to make decisions on it then? Like if I was in that position, I would defer to an expert committee or professional association.
What happens is they do defer to the expert. The expert is a plant by which ever lobbiest chose to sponsor the bill. I’m had correspondences with my government about fields I am intimately familiar with and their arguments about technical feasibility were given to them by their Big4 “expert”. The problem is I know the field well enough to understand their expert is simply giving the opinion they were paid to give and the technical feasibility of the proposals take a back seat to the political desire of the people pushing the proposal.
Someone’s “lobbying” them to make this decision.
Also Michael Blomberg has spent over $50M to push for this bill to pass.
Of course they know what a slicer is. Most of these people existed long before pre-cut loaves were sold at the stores.
Absolutely fuckin not
Good luck with that… 3D printers are not complicated and you could build one yourself if you wanted to.
Have a friend with one print you one.
The software might be complicated enought in the future that you would not be able to just make your own slicer with all the features, like we have with browsers now.
The standards will not mandate perfect efficacy – they will allow for “an acceptably low level of evasion” against a bank of identified design files.
They’ve just admitted that it won’t work. It will rely on a bank of banned designs which means anyone can just modify them until the algorithm doesn’t recognize it as such while still being functional or simply make their own designs. Whoever finds a way to evade those restrictions will pass on the word.
Sucks that this will act as a push to lock down 3D printer firmware for everyone else though. Mass enshitification inbound. The only hope I see is that 3D printer manufacturers will simply get out of California as a result instead because the expense of developing such an algorithm and the risk of fines if it is not performing well enough are too great to be worth it.
Any such algorithm would be patched out of a jailbroken version of the firmware in minutes. 3D printers are already running on FOSS, so this is worse than useless. Anyone who wants to print a working gun will be able to do so trivially.
3D printers are already running on FOSS
That’s what the bill is designed to stop.
I don’t think they know what it’s designed to stop. Seems like this is pretty clearly just a piece of conspicuous legislation passed just to make it look like they’re actually doing something.
How would this even be enforced?
Like, it seems like it would be a trivial process to just install a firmware package without the blocks.
It’s probably just an extra charge they can throw at you if your house ever gets searched. Fuck hobby enthusiasts I guess
And small businesses.
Not true (yet). Could be later, but for now, there’s no crime for circumvention.
From Lewis Rossmans bit on this from this morning, an internet connection and third party AI scanning tools.
So its a whole bucket of “fuck that noise”.
It can’t. They want to destroy 3D printers and Free Software in general entirely.
it’s enforced by stopping most people from trying to get into making 3d printer software. Imagine if california made browser drm required: no more open source browsers
Don’t give them ideas
Digital signatures and closed firmware.
