I have come here for a climate demonstration, not a political view
What he really means is that he only wants to hear about one slice of a political view, or he doesn’t understand that climate change is a political subject too.
He probably means he disagrees with her about this issue and didn’t show up to support a pro-Palestine rally.
I’ve been told that if your protest isn’t disruptive, it’s not really a protest, so I’m sure everyone here will be fully understanding and supportive of this guy for standing up for his beliefs /s
Not all beliefs are created equal. You can respect people without respecting their beliefs.
The point is that people on lemmy (and reddit, and other left leaning forums) tend to dump on people who object to protestors disrupting shit, like closing roads (without a permit), etc.
And then get hypocritical when a protestor does the same thing to counter protest a popular (in this forum) cause.
Don’t get me wrong, I think this was a shitty move. But I also think fucking over completely unrelated people’s days by blocking traffic is also a shit way to conduct a protest.
I think the difference between these two situations is the disruption of commerce.
Capitalists do not give a shit about protests until the protests start affecting their bottom line. That’s why blocking freeways is such a big deal–it speaks to them in a language that they understand. It’s effective not because John Q Taxpayer can’t get to work on time, but because Corporation Q Capital-owner can’t exploit John’s labor without his butt in his seat and without trucks full of resources coming in regularly. Corporations lose much, much more than regular people do when commerce is disrupted.
Grabbing the microphone like is disruptive, but it does not disrupt commerce. If anything, it shows that his goal is to deplatform someone (someone whose platform is the very reason he is there tonight, by his own admission) or to elevate his own platform.
Whoever told you that, stop listening to them. An effective protest is one that expresses your views, and ideally changes people’s minds and builds support for your cause. Disrupting people’s lives is typically counterproductive to actually gaining support.
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There are genuinely people who think like that. To be fair, the George Floyd protests/riots changed things in a way that peaceful protest had so far failed to do.
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I disagree, I think having an entire block burnt down made a lot of people decide they don’t want to see this happen again, in a way a regular protest wouldn’t have.
I’m gonna get downvoted for this but this is just wrong.
Climate change is science, not politics. We are trying to address it from multiple angles at the aame time (such as political angles, scientific angles, lifestyle angles, etc)
So the fight to make our politicians accept that climate change is sceince and not politics is, ironically, a political fight but climate change and the movments to stop it are not only political.
Climate Change is, yes.
But the policies to combat it are not.
Addressing climate change is politics.
As Hbomb said, “People who say they don’t like politics in games actually like politics in games the most, they just wish they were seeing different politics in games, and that’s who Caesar’s Legion is here to stroke off!”
Or detract from the movement by bringing other fronts for it to be attacked into the conversation
I don’t think this was a smart Move to mix these two issues. Israel & Palestine are so extremely polarizing and mixing this with climate might divide the People and weaken the fight for a green future. For example I would rather avoid that topic. I don’t know enough about Palestine/Israel to publicly debate it. And if my climate-rally somehow turns to pro Palestine or pro Israel I would rather abstain from visiting it. Because I dont have a solid View on this topic. And I think I might not be alone with this feeling.
and people told MLK Jr. similar things when he spoke out against the Vietnam War. Activists fundamentally fight for justice, and as King said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” It might make sense in the short term to look the other way and conform, but when something so terrible happens due to actions from a western ally, it’s good in the long term to have principles.
Activists don’t need to be one-track minded. They rarely are. I’m a vegan, socialist, anti-fascist who is against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and for climate justice globally. There’s very strong overlap in these positions. There’s a reason you won’t find a lot of Republican vegans, or pro-Israel socialists.
Yes, sometimes people don’t put in the time to investigate these issues, and I commend you for knowing the limits of your own knowledge, I’ve recommended to people before that it’s better to just say “I don’t know enough about this issue” instead of arriving at an under-researched position. However, it’s not necessary to criticize people who are actually activists, learn about these issues, and go out into the world and advocate for change, so long as they’re advocating for the right thing.
The topic being brought up might ostracize people, but it will also put the topic into people’s minds. People like you might not know what the correct position is here, but you hear the constant pro-Israel propaganda pumped out by the U.S and might arrive at a subconscious conclusion that aligns with the imperial core.
If you hear people speaking out against the apartheid state of Israel, especially people who align with your values, you might be inclined to look into it more, or at the very least not automatically accept U.S propaganda on the issue.
I have to disagree, the activists that really get things done do have a one-track mind, because it takes a lot of energy, money, and time to make any progress in just one issue. You can certainly care about many things, but you can’t go to every conference, cover every issue in your speech, raise money for every cause, etc.
Again. It creates divergence and weakens the awareness for the core Issue of this specific rally and might drive people away from it.
EDIT: Btw. it’s pretty bold of you to assume you know what “the right thing” is especially on such an highly complex and diverse topic like Israel/Gaza.
This is what they mean when they say that the left will eat it’s own. Some of them share this view and they don’t want to seek consensus on topics we agree to advance their goals. Instead they demand that others support all their beliefs.
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I think the far left and far right have a similar problem here, in that you have to be “all in” on the group’s talking points, for danger of being ostracised by your peers.
We need to have clean air and water to see the burning of the cities we have genocide in, we need to make a better world to kill other because of where they were born and what sky God they choose.
She’s never been afraid to speak her mind. How do we address the issue of climate change, if we turn a blind eye to the suffering of innocent people and children done intentionally for vengeance’s sake?
War is terrible for the climate. All that extra fuel burning, and in machines not designed to do it efficiently
Not to mention all the destruction of farms, the poisoning of water sources, all the destroyed vehicles and rotting corpses of men and animals alike laid everywhere.
They will be calling this the 2nd Nakba. Not only is it a massacre of the people, the Palestinians last remaining lands have been salted. Gaza looks like Stalingrad.
It is an entirely man made disaster. Or state made disaster if you will.
Well focus is generally useful for getting things done so one way to address climate change would be to stick to climate change discussion at climate change discussion events.
Want to sabotage a protest? Encourage advocacy for increasingly tangential issues. Focus splits, folks start disagreeing on new issues, folks start disagreeing on how issues get prioritized, everything falls apart.
Sadly, this doesn’t even require a malicious actor encouraging it. Well-meaning folks see a potentially sympathetic audience for their pet issue and boom.
Nothing builds a coalition as effectively as insisting that you absolutely must include a controversial but completely unrelated topic in the effort.
At some point an acute issue takes precedence over your long term goals. These are pretty wild hyperbole, but I acknowledge I am trying to paint an image.
Let’s say you were an activist for the welfare of cattle. But then you find out chickens are hooked up to a new feed system that increases their weight by 20% but also causes them excruciating neurological pain, to the point the chickens are even trying to peck themselves to death to avoid the torture. Would it not make sense to pivot for a moment to the worse animal cruelty for a while? The cows aren’t going anywhere.
Let’s say you were an activist for climate and a nation state was running towards genociding an entire group of people. Would it not make sense to pivot to the genocide speed run for a while? Climate change isn’t going anywhere.
Those are two separate and unrelated issues, and should be treated as such.
The linked article even fails to mention what exactly was “pro Palestinian” in the address - there’s zero quotes. Shitty journalism.
Also, you can be “pro Palestinian” without being “anti Israel” - although a lot of shit-for-brains populists try to deny that these days.
I remember we used to have anti-war rallies.
I don’t recall them being painted as pro-Iraqi.
Can’t we just go back to that, rather than being asked to pick sides in an issue where 99% of us have no skin in the game?
Why is is always Israel vs Palestine that gets trotted out for us? I don’t remember being asked to picked sides in the Second Congo War, and that killed 5 million people over five years.
It’s just divisive bullshit.
Only the sith deal in absolutes
Pretty ironic way to say it, Obi dude
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Greta Thunberg was interrupted as she addressed a climate protest in Amsterdam on Sunday after inviting a Palestinian and an Afghan woman on stage.
The Swedish activist was speaking to a crowd of tens of thousands in the Dutch capital before the country heads to the polls in a general election next week.
Earlier proceedings had been interrupted as a small group of activists at the front of the crowd waved Palestinian flags and chanted pro-Palestinian slogans.
The speeches on stage were the culmination of a mass protest that saw tens of thousands of people march through the streets of Amsterdam, urging for more action to tackle climate change.
Political leaders including former European Union climate chief Frans Timmermans, who now leads a centre-left, two-party bloc in the election campaign, later addressed the crowd in a square behind the landmark Rijksmuseum.
Event organiser, the Climate Crisis Coalition, said in a statement: "We live in a time of crises, all of which are the result of the political choices that have been made.
The original article contains 507 words, the summary contains 172 words. Saved 66%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good job by Greta by addressing the elephant in the room first. Nobody is going to take the moral police seriously while the west is supporting genocide. Any climate change protest already comes off as massive virtue signaling right now.
The entire point of preventing climate change is so humanity can continue to exist. The earth can exist without us. If we’re gonna start a third world War right now you can forget about the 2050 stuff.
Now that was a stupid move…
She needs better security to deal with unhinged people.
Both hamas and israel are commiting big no nos against each other. It’s very hard to even pick a side at this point because both have valid arguments and none are innocent.
Strawman bullshit. This post is not about siding with Hamas, no one in their sane mind does that. Palestinians do not equal Hamas, the same way that Israelis do not equal Jews or vice versa.
Don’t both sides this. Israel has slaughtered 5000 kids and killed more civilians in a month than Putin did in Ukraine in over two years. It is deliberately targeting hospitals schools and ambulances and failing to distinguish civilians from combatants. Israeli politicians have repeatedly used dehumanizing language and called for ethnic cleansing. They have told proven lies about human shields while publicly bragging about how they are destroying Gaza.
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Israel has slaughtered 5000 kids and killed more civilians in a month
These are bullshit statistics until they are verified by independent sources.
Here’s a short clip of Israel’s genocide against children
https://x.com/GozukaraFurkan/status/1723798343040614634?s=20
why didn’t they flee along with the rest of the population?
There’s nowhere to flee to. Gaza is a concentration camp.
lmao that’s not what a concentration camp is. A concentration camp is where you’re expected to work. You’re thinking of a prison.
that said~ why can’t they flee to egypt? :3
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eeehhh… Ushering people into cages because of their ethnicity seems like grounds of genocide. or at the very least, extreme racism.
This seems to be a highly biased and untrustable source. Most clear evidence here (and you can find others from this comments):
https://twitter.com/GozukaraFurkan/status/1714341949774192768
Commendable that he preserved this mistake for us, though.
Maybe we would have better sources if the Israelis hadn’t imposed a blackout by cutting electricity and internet and killing 50 journalists.
you don’t have to pick any side! <3
i don’t!
I personally am not picking any sides. Just hoping for the best out of both parties here.
this is their best lol
I also wish for the quick destruction of Hamas.
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I think it’s pretty easy. Hamas is a religious/fascistic terrorist organization, and Israel is a modern western country with an organized military. I concede that neither are perfect (who is?), but Hamas is so much worse that the choice should be trivial for anyone who prefers secularist freedom.
It does seem, the world over, that wholesale displacement or extermination of Muslims is what a majority of people want. Why else is the Palestinian/Hamas line so regularly blurred by mainstream media the world over? Between Gaza, Xinjiang, North America, and Europe, there’s so much goddamn Islamophobia.
what’s this got to do with climate change?
Bombs are bad for the environment.
No you’re thinking of daisy cutters, agent orange, and white phosphorus. Bombs can actually be quite good for the environment especially unexploded ordinance since it keeps people away. Though it can be bad for the local fauna.
You haven’t heard of world war 2?
Short of leveling a bunch of islands because the Japanese were doing a rather impressive impression of ticks I cant think of many examples of massive environmental impact caused by munitions. Maybe some the Germans and Soviets were chucking more artillery and explosives than I thought in eastern Europe but I can’t think of many other examples.
Shouldve gone with asking about WW1 because fuck did that land get scourged. I was mostly making a joke about how a lot of areas that are closed off due to undetonated munitions double as nature preserves.
Fuckin bitch
