- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
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The always-on nature of phones and tablets is incredibly convenient. Wouldn’t it be great if your (non-ARM) laptop or desktop could do this too?
No, it would not.
My laptop is not a phone. I do not want it to notify me about things when it’s inactive. All I want from suspend to RAM is for it to quickly[0] return to its previous state[1].
[0] Compared to suspend to disk, even with an SSD
[1] This isn’t an excuse not to save work before suspending
Well, I can see useful use-cases. I mean, laptops are often used disconnected right? So if a laptop sitting in a bag can wake up, sync all your emails and do all your patches while it’s in your house and internet-connected, that means it’s ready to go when you’re using it at the doctor’s office where he’s got no wifi and you don’t want to turn on pairing on your phone because every time you do that it somehow blows through all your data.
Obviously the trade-off failed miserably. I’d much rather have a full-battery laptop then a laptop that tried to sync everything 2 days ago then ran down the batteries. But it should’ve been able to work in theory.
All of which would be fine for people who want this, but the issue is there is no option on many computers. For users who don’t want this functionality, who don’t enjoy their computer doing shit in the background when not using it, there is no option to disable it fully. It’s either shit it down or accept this crap as a consequence of sleeping it.
Also, when laptops are in bags, ventilation isn’t very good. I’d rather it not be trying to do anything in there, at all, whatsoever, except staying asleep.
But more to the point
So if a laptop sitting in a bag can wake up, sync all your emails and do all your patches while it’s in your house and internet-connected
Another way to frame this is “what if Microsoft could do shit at literally any time and the only way to stop them is to shut down fully or get out of range of any any known wifi network”.
I just shut everything down.
I can’t think of a scenario where I need a PC/laptop in less than 10-20 seconds.
Phone? Sure, if I want to take a quick photo or something, but a PC? Where’s the hurry?
Mostly for not loosing unsavable work across transit. Though, Windows has kinda blurred the line between shutdown and standby, so now you can do neither (I guess you can still shutdown properly holding down the shift key while pressing the button, but who thinks about that?).
But standby was indeed much more prevelant when booting your laptop took 2~5min.
Are you referring to windows fast startup? or did windows add another layer to my pc not just shutting down
Yup, that’s the one.
Had quite some problems with programs not cleaning caches properly and drives having weird behavior when accessed in offline state when they first introduced it, though I imagine it surely must have become more robust by now.
holding shift key
Windows: HEY BUDDY, YOU TRYNA USE STICKY KEYS? NO? AIGHT, IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND, JUST PRESS SHIFT AGAIN!
I don’t want to shut my PC down just to walk a few blocks down the road to get lunch.
S3 standby my machine takes 10 seconds to wake up, S0 standby my machine takes 5 seconds to wake up, but to fully boot up from off and reload everything to where I was will take minutes and destroy my poor battery. i9 and nvme ssds are not power friendly.
I use my computer as my main communication device. When I wake it up, I want all my apps refreshed and ready, texts and mail downloaded, and everything ready to go. Then again, that’s why I have a Mac 😂 works great
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Almost no modern sleep modes are able to work with Linux properly either, and BIOS support for S3 sleep mode is slowly being removed by certain larger manufacturers. Very crappy.
Linux supports s2idle/s0ix just fine, though I guess it will depend on hardware like suspend always has done. I have a laptop which only supports s2idle and it almost always works fine. (There are issues in Windows too though).
However, it is still very crappy, because there was never anything wrong with S3. It comes up in a second, and the battery discharge rate is low enough to leave it suspended for days without worrying. The latter feature is actually important - coming in 0.1 seconds as opposed to 1 is not important.
I just shutdown now and I’m running Linux Mint on older Lenovos with S3. I tried to add old S3 sleep manually in Mint but it never quite worked right and at times the laptop actually froze instead of sleeping with the CPU on and the fans running.
I just go to shutdown instead. It’s annoying as the idea of instant resume when opening the laptop would be great but I also don’t wanted a cooked CPU with a dead battery.
I dunno why I individually responded to people when I should’ve just done this.
It’s because one of your peripherals is set to wake state. You can google how to figure that out.
I turned my mouse and keyboard off from this. The mouse will wake it even if you move it. So f that. Keyboard. Some. Keyboards will wake just by having an active transmission (so manually turn it off every time - no thanks)
Now I manually have to touch my power button to wake.
This is an issue, but it’s not the issue. The issue is windows modern standby, trying to make users PCs always on like smartphones. Except the processors don’t support the same low power states as smartphones processors, and can be triggered by software like windows update to turn on even when disconnected from power and without functioning ventilation.
My macbook wakes up whenever I get up in the middle of the night to pee. This is without me touching the mouse or the keyboard or even the desk they’re sitting on. This bothers me.
Well that’s a separate issue. You have some Apple feature turned on and it needs turned off.
It’s because one of your peripherals is set to wake state. You can google how to figure that out.
Sometimes that’s a firmware issue. ASUS screwed up the ACPI DSDT for my 2021 G15 by leaving the sleep capabilities off of one of the NVMe slots - every time you’d tell the machine to sleep it would try, but because one of the NVMe slots wasn’t capable the machine would then immediately rewake. I had to decompile the damned thing, patch it and load my patched table as an in memory override every single boot.
Well that’s impressive AF.
This is true for S3 sleep, but that’s not the issue here. S0 sleep or Modern Standby just doesn’t put the computer to sleep. Windows manages device power states instead of the BIOS, and it usually doesn’t work out so well.
Overheating and battery drain caused by Modern Standby happen on laptops that are closed with nothing plugged in.
Try to put my PC to sleep? 1 of 3 things happens: it either goes to sleep normally, it goes to sleep but wakes itself up 2 seconds later, or the PC actually just shuts down. Try to shut down my PC? 1 of 2 things happens: it either shuts down, or it restarts.
I think the problem is Windows.
There was a video from LTT not too long ago where they contacted MS about the issue. It’s supposedly due to device manufacturers not implementing the spec properly so they ended up giving up on it.
The only way for me to keep my desktop off all night is for me to switch off the power supply or unplug it, sleep, hibernate, flat out turning it off, all result in a bright ass screen waking me up at 2am
You can go into the window settings until it to shut down all the way. My computer used to do that too, until I disabled the setting.
It’s because one of your peripherals is set to wake state.
I turned my mouse and keyboard off from this.
Now I manually have to touch my power button to wake.
Turned your mouse and keyboard off?
Turned your wake state checker to not check for keyboard and mouse?
What does “from this” mean? Curious how this works
Is not just me!
Yeah just what I want from my PC: for it to be more like the always-on, nagging attention whore that is my phone. /s
This is why I always shut down and never sleep it. With my nvme drive boot up is seconds.
I dont even bother anymore. I just shutdown. Need me on my computer in 1 minute? Sorry.
With m.2s around it takes less than a minute to go from the start button to the desktop. Haven’t put my pc to sleep since upgrading to that
My company’s IT department: “hold my beer. Keep holding it. Now decrypting. Now opening spyware one to 20. Open random cmds that do nothing. Quick virus scan. An update? Better reboot in the next 5 min. The beer? It’s warm now”
Ahh, yes. The unplanned lunch break when you need a hard reboot because your environment is fucky.
And that reboot after update is guaranteed, because you haven’t restarted in weeks due to how long it takes
After all that you get to tinker around with their shit VPN client that only works during one phase of the moon.
This has been a non issue for some time.
It takes less than 15 seconds for me to boot to desktop. If I put it in sleep mode I save about 5-10 seconds. Hardly worth it IMO.
Seriously, it takes longer for me to set up my windows again than it does for my computer to boot, and that probably could be solved too if I had the time. Forget sleep modes, they don’t matter if the computer boots fast enough.
I had the same problem with my work-issued Thinkpad. No overheating, but frequently pulling the laptop out of the bag and finding battery dead. Solution I found was to bind the power-button to “hibernate”, and just using that any time I knew I was going to be putting it away into my bag.
One problem I ran into writing my first Windows Store application like 10 years ago was that Windows Store seemed to have no interest in mobile-style security where you request permissions one-at-a-time and only the ones you need - the intended workflow was that you either requested no secure privs and let your app be “untrusted”, or you made your app “trusted” and requested all the privs. This was actively recommended by MS.
Of course, this means “wake from sleep” would be something that every app would have permission to do accidentally, even if they didn’t want to.
I managed to fiddle around with my work Dell laptop and disable that nonsense. I think it was called “modern standby”. I don’t understand why this isn’t considered a fire hazard. It was terrifying to leave my laptop in my backpack until I figured out the fix.
Yep, while my Extreme Gen 4 has a BIOS toggle, my work-issued T14 Gen 3 does not so I had to get IT to come in and enable hibernate. Prior to that it seemed like it had less battery life sleeping than awake. (ex: fully charged and confirmed that the power light is flashing before flight - few hours later it’s 100% dead.)
It’s because one of your peripherals is set to wake state.
I turned my mouse and keyboard off from this.
Now I manually have to touch my power button to wake.
It didn’t have any peripherals, I mean, like, external USB ones.
wow they’re just like me
This shit is so obnoxious I’ve started having to use hibernate again.
Potentially my mac does the same thing, but it doesn’t wake itself up stealing monitors, running fans at 100%, and becoming a space heater like the two windows computers I have. If it does wake itself up, then I don’t notice.
This also happens on Linux, after 20 seconds, my computer just wakes up 😠 (definitely not because I don’t have enough disk space)
It’s because one of your peripherals is set to wake state.
I turned my mouse and keyboard off from this.
Now I manually have to touch my power button to wake.
Had the nic set to that. Any package on the network. Did not matter who it was for. If the nic saw it, it would wake the machine up.
You didn’t get it. It’s because I didn’t have enough disk space, my partition was too small. I also deleted files from the trash and it works.
My girlfriend laptop turns on in the middle of the nights for no fucking reason. As a Linux user this shit is creepy
My PC used to do this. I would pull the plug sometimes in order to prevent it from happening
This article is a wall of text spreading fake info. The sleep states work fine in windows if you have any idea how it works. And this has been the case for at least 8 years.
If you have any issue go into cmd type
powercfg -requestsand windows will tell you what is keeping it awake.And doubling down if you really want your pc to wake if its off and you slap your keyboard just tweak your bios wake options and done.
Mine started acting up a couple of weeks ago. I’ve since switched to Linux. I can’t have a PC that powers on throughout the night. Eats power.
My work issued E15 Ryzen 5000 sleeps and hibernates fine. Plus it lasts a long time in both. I wonder if it’s an Intel bug.
Hibernate is a different function
Yet they’re linked. Still, the machine has zero issues with Windows sleeping.
Isn’t that a Lenovo model? I noticed they weren’t mentioned in the article and wondered if that was on purpose or just an oversight. My cheap IdeaPad also sleeps fine…but it also has an AMD cpu.
Yes. Lenovo E15. Excellent work laptop honestly.
