Hello!
I am getting the parts together for a tower server build. I plan on running Jellyfin, maybe dive into arrs and nextcloud for 2 users total, wireguard only for external access as it’s not the main focus for now.
Situation: if I have access to refurb/used 4TB enterprise HDDs at the same price as 1.9ish TB enterprise SSDs.
I’d take lower capacity as it is not that big of a concern for me rn. I want to have somewhat redundant storage of my documents, photos, but otherwise it’s not gonna be a giant media vault overflowing with movies.
Question: In terms of noise, shipping concerns and longevity, would you go with SSDs instead of HDDs? Is it lower maintenance?
I can of course buy spinners later if I find flash only to be restricting in any way, and add to the rig as needed.
Speed would not be an issue in any case. This is for TrueNAS scale, so zfs. I am planning to buy 3-4 disks now, and add more if needed in 6 months time or later.
I am eager to hear others opininons on this. Thanks!
Failure rates for sdd are better than hdd but generally not by a lot. I’ve read that hdds can have a higher “crib death” where new drives have a higher failure rate, but after like a year they are solid. Unless you’re buying thousands of drives you’re unlikely to notice though.
I’ve never heard of “noise” being an issue for an hdd - especially if you have it in any sort of enclosure. If you’re not sitting right next to it you shouldn’t notice.
The biggest differences are performance and cost. If you want speed go ssd. If you want cheap go hdd.
My desktop systems run ssd where performance really matters to me. I get hdds for my file server where I want bulk storage.
The noise is only an issue because of how small my appartment is. I can’t really isolate noise in here. I would think it also depends on which drives I get. I read that some are louder than others.
Ah - this is true it can depend on the drive. The biggest variation tends to be in the loudness of the ‘clicking’ as the head moves. Older SCSI drives were (in)famous for how loud that could be. For the most part it’s a light hum of the motor. In my systems the case fan’s are much louder though. I suppose it’s a personal preference.
It’s generally at the “whisper” level or lower. But thinking about it being in my living room I could see it potentially being an annoyance compared to a silent drive. Depending on where it is, how enclosed it is, etc.
I have very recently acquired 4x18TB Seagate Exos drives for a fresh server. I parked them in an old case I had lying around where i was barely able to secure them all with screws, and cooling was especially problematic. Noise was horrible. standby noise was already audbile in the entire room. and when writing data while parity calculations were running, you could hear it in the entire apartment. The noise travelled through the wooden floor into every other room.
I have now moved the server and the drives into the fractal define 7 case. the drives rest on specially made rubber bearings that came with the case. the sides are noise isolated. the system is running with 6 fans total, 3 of which are 120mm corsair fans repurposed, and 3 are 140mm from the define 7. the server is now close to noiseless. vibrations do not rattle the case as with the old one. the rubber bearings isolate most of the vibration anyways. all that is left is a bit of head clacking, which gets isolated away from the case sides.
long story short: the drives are only half the story. you need a proper enclosure that is noise isolated. the define 7 is comparatively huge, but it gives you immense room to grow and was truly a godsent regarding noise.
Thanks for the insights on the case and drives!
I have an old Silverstone case with about 6 of the old style 3,5" drive mounts and 3x5,25" bay. Originally I had a Samsung 1TB drive in it (which is still kicking around somehow pulling torrent drive duty) I remember it being louder in that case then in my new one. So I’ll have to test it out. If i can get my hands on some rubber bearings and if they help any at all.
I am not planning to go that big on storage for now tho. It sounds like serious work. I am doing this so I can be more comfortable. Aside from updates, I want to dial it in once and forget it unless I need to touch it.
Since you’re going to go with 4TB drives, they may already make less noise just based on that. At these lower capacities (would have been an insane thing to call 4TB drives a couple years ago lol) they’re built differently.
If you’re not gonna use a “proper sound isolated case”, let me share these two ressources for custom sound dampening cases: https://silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=70364
https://silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8240&sid=d238d6b11e22a2ee94bdd902078aa1ec
Both taught me a handful of things about what I can do beyond buying an isolated case to reduce noise output. Maybe they will be of help to you too. Best of luck!
There’s your first problem.
I know, people like to call them noisy. I’m sure they are, but I have no point of reference. I’ve never interacted with 18TB drives before. And as I’ve written in the comment, with the Define 7 I’m having absolutely zero noise issues. The maximum noise I am able to get out of the drives is when writing during parity calculations, and this scenario now causes near zero audible noise. I am wonderfully happy with what I have.
Not noise; their failure rate was HORRIBLE for a while, then there was the firmware debacle that bricked drives, and then there was when they dropped their warranty from 5 years to 3 years to 1 year……
WD Red are the quieter you can find and they can spin down if you configure them to do so. Seagate Exos drives are the most loud and annoying drives you can get, they won’t also spin down no matter what you set their config to.
I have a bunch of WD HDDs (9) in my Fractal Design Define R7 case sitting on top of my desk, about 2ft away at ear level, and can barely hear them. If anything the hum of the fans is what I can hear most (though still quiet). I have a security camera NVR with a little 40mm fan 12ft away on top of a high shelf in my office and I can hear it over my server by quite a large margin.
Even if rebuilding it today, I’d go for HDDs as you can’t buy 12, 14, 18TB, etc SSDs for a couple hundred bucks and you won’t really gain any benefit using SSD over HDD as reading large movie files from a disk isn’t going to saturate the drive cache and you won’t be dealing with random seeking.
You said you might upgrade all the drives in the future but how (2nd NAS?) and what will you do with the old ones? 4x4TB is going to fill up pretty fast especially when you’re first starting out and eager to add new titles.
I’m curious on where did you find this. Maybe they have lower DOA rates and decreased chances to fail in the first year, but SSDs have a limited usage lifetime / limited writes, so even if they don’t fail quickly, they wear out over time and at first they have degraded performance, but finally succumb in 5 years or less, even when lightly used (as in as OS drives).
To avoid DOA / first year issues with HDDs, just have the patience to fully scan them before using with a good disk testing app.
Backblaze and other “bulk storage providers” tend to release reports every-now-and-then about the lifetime of their drives (it’s important for them to understand the costs). Here’s one such Backblaze Report.
Holy shit, I stand corrected, those graphs speak for themselves. Bookmarked for future stats.
LE: Well, there’s also the section about average age of failure in their newest report: 2 years and 7 months for HDDs, 14 months for SSDs.
Yeah there are a lot of ways to cut the data. Average age of failure doesn’t mean more things fail, just that if they do fail they’re likely to be around that age.
In general the reliability seems to be “close enough” between the two that it won’t matter for a home user who doesn’t have 10,000 storage units running in a server room. 😀
The write cycles shouldn’t really be an issue for a home NAS because you’re not erasing and rewriting over and over. For commercial projects, where logs, security video, or rotating data needs to be stored and erased hundreds of thousands of times.
True, but it depends from person to person and it counts if you have a small or big drive, how often you watch and rotate your media, how large the media is. If you only have a 1TB SSD, and often download and watch blue-ray quality, 20 movies will fill it. It won’t be long until the same blocks get erased, no matter how much the SSDs firmware tries to spread the usage and avoid reusing the same blocks.
Anyway, my point is, aside from noise and lower power consumption advantages, I wouldn’t use SSDs for a NAS, I regard them as consumables. Speed isn’t really an issue in HDDs.
Good point, but let’s say you download 20 new movies, meaning rewrite to every block on the drive each week. That’s barely 1,000 write cycles a year, and we’re still talking about a hundred thousand write cycles, which would take 100 years. Even if you start seeing bad blocks at 10,000 write cycles, by the time the drives are wearing out, the cost of replacement drives should be considerably lower.
Would you suggest some good testing app? I just use crystal disk info to see the stats. Never ran a test as such.
I use Hard Disk Sentinel, it’s not free, but it also monitors drives in Windows so you have an early warning at the first sign of issues. Also logs historic data (writes, temperature, etc) and displays them as graphs.
No. I can’t stand the noise of HDDs.
That’s fair.