So after a run in with a moderator yesterday I’ve had some thoughts I felt I wanted to share.
I won’t name them here, you are welcome to look at my comment history and make up your own mind.
In this instance a user posted some misinformation. I don’t think they intended to, they merely perpetuated a myth, they clearly simply knew no better.
I tried to respond diplomatically, they doubled down, other users piled on, the downvotes are plenty and then I responded with an article citing evidence supporting my assertions.
I also stated that the burden of proof lies with the claimant and asked for some context on why they seemed dead set on the lie they were aping back, asking if they subscribe to other myth based beliefs, religions, etc. That post was unceremoniously deleted with no notice to me and no reasons given… until the user pointed out in another post that they are the sole mod of the community and warned me that they were “not afraid to ban” me should I “cross the line” in a very *‘I’m the sheriff of this here town’ *tone. Which gave me a chuckle.
That’s my side of the story, it’s all there if you want to draw your own conclusions. It really doesn’t matter who is right or wrong in a ‘someone is wrong on the internet’ spat but I did spot a chink in the fediverse through this incident.
The real point here is that this kind of behaviour is one of things that made Reddit fucking awful and I’d hate to see it flourish here in the fediverse.
I don’t have the solutions just some suggestions that I’d be keen to hear others opinions on:
- No moderation without representation. IOW: mods should be democratically elected.
- Mod elections should be annual and no mod should enjoy that status for life.
- There should be a mechanism for inducing a ‘no confidence’ mode election at any time otherwise the communities are likely to splinter into “real_” communities just as they did on Reddit which no community in the fediverse can currently afford.
What say you my brothers and sisters and everything in between? Is there a way to safeguard against cronyism, corruption and other frailties of the human ego?
No moderation without representation. IOW: mods should be democratically elected.
Yeah, no.
Don’t turn this into a popularity contest. One that can be bought and cheesed.
Who has time for oversight on that? Why not voter id too.
Is this first past the post or proportional representation?
Term limits, right? Does that include a hand over? How much of their term will be spent getting up to speed?
Where is the incentive to someone starting their own community if it is going to be taken from them when they’ve put in hard work for no money. Should they not be rewarded for their labour?
Will the inherent democratisation of communities alter the content posted on them? Should we place bans in meta-political posts that support only the incumbent mod?
What if they choose not to leave? Insurrection? Send in the troops?
My friend, I say this genuinely, you are trying to police the internet. Don’t. It’s a folly.
You have the power to walk away. You have the power to start your own community.
Do it and run it better.
And back to the democracy thing… Democracy is a wonderful thing in the governance of human civilization… It’s not a fix for every situation you encounter that you don’t like. It often means instead of having one asshole to deal with you’ll get a carousel of different assholes on a regular basis.
Just thought, fuck it. Why no add a second elected chamber where each other community can elect a representative to have oversight on everything the mod does?
Let’s democracy the hell out of this.
All good points. Besides which consensus is that my ideas in the OP are naive at best, which I accept.
One comment I would like to make is that ownership of a community is an oxymoron. Obviously. But I totally get your points and thank you for your thoughtful post.
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Hey, the idea might have been a bit dodgy, but you are made of better stuff.
Credit to you.
asking if they subscribe to other myth based beliefs, religions, etc
What you actually said:
Out of interest are you religious or subject to some other form of mythical belief system? I ask because clearly you lack motivation for the truth, preferring hearsay and urban legend that I must assume supports a wider world view. by @Hackerman_uwu
My thought: this kind of behaviour is one of things that made Reddit fucking awful and I’d hate to see it flourish here in the fediverse.
Yeah wtf, the OP is just an asshole Thanks for catching that, and kudos for the “power drunk mod” for not bending
I dunno man, does this have anything to do other than with your own fragile ego?
You are aware that the ModLog is visible and we can see you’re a liar. Right?
Please link to evidence of lying I have been absolutely transparent.
Mod logs can and are purged. So I see you left that out
I left it out because it doesn’t happen. Your blatant alt that’s evading a ban can fuck off now
I would say to this that you are very much welcome to create an instance with these principles. It’s the decision of the instance owner how to run their instance, and this includes what rules apply to mod elections or do not apply to mod elections.
Mod elections should be annual and no mod should enjoy that status for life.
We are talking about an unpaid position. For me, the best thing about the downfall of reddit is it made blindingly clear that the content is ephemeral, shitposting is not all that important and that online forums are communities in name only.
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Does it count as “leaving Reddit” if the Lemmy equiv only has two posts in the last month, and one of them is about “Vulcan Sex Workers”?
So, it’s basically 4chans all the way down.
Certainly if they can be owned then communities are not communities but rather commodities. So yes, in name only, which is sad.
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Exactly. Shitty mods have been a thing since newsgroups, AOL chatrooms and good old internet forums. Probably BBSes too.
If you consider the basic concept, they’ve been a thing since we started grouping together as communities. There have always been people who power trip. The internet just made them less effectual.
Fair.
It’s just the internet. Lemmy has features built in to reduce mod abuse like a public modlog anyone can view without logging in. IMO the reddit format was never good for discussing heated topics.
No.
The real point here is that this kind of behaviour is one of things that made Reddit fucking awful and I’d hate to see it flourish here in the fediverse.
Too late, I’m afraid, it already does.
No moderation without representation. IOW: mods should be democratically elected.
Mod elections should be annual and no mod should enjoy that status for life.
There should be a mechanism for inducing a ‘no confidence’ mode election at any time otherwise the communities are likely to splinter into “real_” communities just as they did on Reddit which no community in the fediverse can currently afford.
How do you enforce this? You would need the admin’s cooperation. What if the instance admin is also the mod? If someone starts a community, is it fair to take it away from them, if you don’t agree with their moderation?
There really isn’t any way to prevent all this, it would have to be built into the platform itself and it’s too late to do that now. Furthermore, there are very few communities large enough for people to even want to vote for mods.
Yes, looking over the responses I agree with the consensus that my ideas are naive at best. Thanks for your thoughtful post.
Fwiw: other than insults and a mod’s implied threat… The conversation looked like it had potential and that both of you were making relevanct, fact-based points.
Issue was that there was a low key combativeness throughout and I’m not sure why that was necessary. I see that a lot online, but I think I see it more here than anywhere else.
I’ve wondered if it’s just easy to feel like a big fish in this medium sized pond and then embarrass ourselves when we meet a fish of approximately equal size.
Having said all the above. I slip into combative too. Almost always have regrets later, but it’s super easy to do.
I appreciate your thoughts but I’ll refrain from commenting further on the silly spat. It’s not important to this topic and in retrospect I should have left it off my OP and just posted the ideas I’d had.
Thank you for you thoughtful post.
tldr
L’enfer c’est les autres.
No. That’s not how federated networks work.
That said, if you’re a reader, try out the sci fi novel “The Prefect” by Reynolds. There’s a hyperdemocratic microvoting system in that one, with the main characters being detectives. Plot is fun too. But it’s a nice little thought experiment is extreme democracy.
There was an episode of The Orville about everyone being able to vote on just about everything. Too many down votes and you were reprogrammed.
The market will decide whether mods are in the wrong or not. If you feel like you have been wronged by power tripping mods then feel free to start your own instance and own community and people will join if the situation is that bad.
Having an election for mods is redundant when federated networks are democratic by their nature and how their users use them. Having an “election” is potentially less democratic because it’s an arbitrary vote rather than letting people vote with where they decide to hold their accounts and the subscriptions.
I like your take.
I don’t feel I’ve been wronged btw. I feet that human nature is as it does. I was looking for a lesson, a way to improve things out of it.
Good idea Open your own instance I’ll gladly join
