Not a hot take at all. Asking someone to go from a GUI heavy operating system to a command line heavy one and be just as productive is lunacy. Like all major changes it is important to ween off the old thing.
My biggest hurdle with the switch has been permission related issues, and you can’t deal with those cleanly with a UI, and every help thread under the sun throws out a bunch of command line commands giving a solution without explaining why those changes are needed. It may seem like Unix 101 to experienced Linux users, but it is really cryptic to newcomers coming from operating systems that are…cough more lenient with their permissions.
There is also a mentality that UIs are much more idiot proof than command line. UIs are written by people who actually know the OS so we can’t accidentally delete our home folder because of a typo. It is a very legitimate concern.
Not really, the vaaaast majority of PC users don’t need the linux commandline.
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Do any of those actually match this one? I looked through the first few pages, and there was nothing related to Linux.
You are correct, which is why I deleted it about a minute after I posted it. Unfortunately deletion of a comment does not propagate to other instances as well as creating one.
Which does not change the fact that this “hot take” IS a repost.
I didn’t mean to plagiarize but if I did I apologize
it is not about plagiarism as in “stealing someone’s ip” but about the fact that being a repost is in itself a proof that is not not really that hot take.
New Linux Users don’t even know the difference.
Ha! Yeah, I remember that phase. I was planning to install LXDE as my first distro, simply because I thought the wallpaper looked cool.
I agree - was switching to Fedora about month and a half ago, and only learned about KDE vs Gnome like a week ago, when I was reinstaling to Nobara to fix some NVIDIA issues.
I did hear terms like KDE or Gnome thrown around, but never really realized that it’s actually and important choice. And once you add X11 vs Wayland to the mix, it’s suddenly so confusing I just subconsciously choose to ignore that choice and went with whatever the OS installed for me. I though that DE chouse is similar to X11 vs Wayland choice, i.e something tha is more about back-end than front-end, and didn’t realize that’s literally how your OS UI looks and controls, instead of how it works in the background (which I now know is what X11 vs Wayland is actually about)
Turned out I really don’t like Gnome (Which was default for Fedora), but love KDE, which was thankfully a default for Nobara.
So, if you’re ever recommending Linux to someone, be it in a comment or somwhere else, or someone is asking for a recommended distro, please include a short paragraph about the importance of choosing the correct DE, and explanation of what it is and that you can change it!
Yeah hi that’s me - I just use pop_os and everything works so I just roll with it
PopOS is great! I have used a few other (but never strayed far from APT), and I also did some light reading when doing my final decision . PopOS was the best fit for and easy-to-use OS without Snaps. Linux is great and all with how much control you have, but I want as little maintenance as possible for my daily driver.
Yeah that’s all I need - I’m super into everyone else hyper customizing what they use, I love seeing everything that can be done, but I just need something that works and pop_os is it, and as I’ve said before, my games run better on pip_os than they ever did on win 10/11
i love K⭐D⭐E
KDE FTW!
Arguably you can’t beat Debian + KDE
Aktually, I prefer Arch + KDE. I say if you like your current desktop, then stay with it. I’ve hit the sweet spot with what I’ve got because I love the AUR, pacman, and paru.
Arch btw
I’ve used Arch before and I still keep an Arch distrobox container but my current usage requires stability.
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Tbh i do this for over half a year now and only had 2 issues were I had to reinstall the kernel after an update via a chroot
Maybe installing system packages through the AUR was a mistake but it’s so tempting
OpenSUSE + KDE
I feel you. I don’t agree but I feel you.
And I have installed hundreds of opensuse systems, many for new linux users.But that was my choice as the sysadmin (well really one of my predecessors some decades ago). It isn’t as amazing for self-administering newbies.
Another very good option
Just became a first time user (~48 hours ago) of KDE on Sparky distro and I’m pretty impressed.
A smart distro allows you to change DEs without changing the distro, though.
Is it just me or is every new distro just a base with a different DE? I started to notice this a few years back but not sure if it was my imagination or something developers starting doing because it was easier to ship the DE as “the OS” than it was to instruct users on how to switch to their DE.
Yeah, that’s pretty much it. Distros used to be about experimenting with different packaging systems and system managers, but now seems like the packaging systems are mostly the three: Arch, Debian, Red Hat. And the system manager is almost always systemd.
So the only thing to do (beyond better quality control, which takes a lot of constant work) is to make the DE somehow unique.
Repositories and package versioning are also extremely important in ways newbies don’t realize yet. There’s a significant variety between using Debian, Ubuntu, Pop!_OS or Kali. They are all Debian based using apt but they are all decidedly entirely different systems with completely different purposes and uses.
I think the default setting matters, if there is any. Looking at Gentoo.
Fun aside, I think Fedora might be a good choice, because Gnome is easy and polished!
My problem with Gnome is if it were my desktop, I might as well run Windows, since Gnome shell/mutter is slightly less capable than Windows. Extensions exist, but are very much a second class citizen and get broken by shell versions frequently, and the author of an extension may be gone when it comes time to rework it for a new version.
Plasma/kwin have pretty much everything I want in desktop/window management baked in.
I love gnome overall and it’s my favorite de, but the missing features and extensions being almost mandatory for basic functions definitely are a pain.
Extensions are cool but the basics should be built in.
Fedora has ten other desktops to choose from. I’m currently test driving Budgie
I do fedora with KDE/plasma.
Nowadays fedora is a decent “boring” distribution, that finally settled into blatantly prompting to add the non free repositories you will probably want.
Ubuntu was annoying with it’s little adventures in “not invented here” with mir, unity, and nowadays snap. So nice to have a modern, boring distribution.
Fedora also comes with a dozen different DEs prepackaged and installable with a single, simple command. Each user just can select and change their own desktop with a menu selection on the login screen
Are there (sizeable) distros that does not allow you to install multiple DE’s and change between them?
AFAIK Fedora comes with Gnome and KDE, both in Wayland and X11 version, out of the box, and you can just select one when logging in.
I’m sure they all allow it, but some make it awkward enough that a reinstall might be a better option.
I started with Ubuntu and slowly tried getting used to Gnome over the course of a few months (mainly using windows, every now and then hopping into Ubuntu when not gaming). I learned of KDE, tried it in Kubuntu, and it all instantly clicked for me. I switched over in about a week and haven’t had much reason to boot Windows since.
It turned out that front-facing experience was incredibly important to me.
What do you mean by front facing? Like the DE is the FrontEnd?
Is it not?
Depends which way you are oriented. Sometimes I will work from behind the monitor to really get into the back end
Boy, do I have the product for you
It is I just think I found the sentence a little confusing
Got Ubuntu because all I wanted was to play/mod games and watch videos… and Windows 10 totally shit the bed. Constantly on the green loading screens.
I’m so lost with installing, directories, hidden directories, learning how to uninstall things I can’t find in directories I can’t find. It’s a massive headache and steep learning curve.
Still haven’t really played a game yet that can’t run on Ubuntu natively, and it’s still better than Windows 10.
For windows users that go to Linux I always recommend KDE as it looks like windows and it’s easy for them to understand and use it!
Start recommending Cinnamon then, it’s the best DE when switching from Windows.
i concur
I recommend KDE as when I switch from windows I tried multiple DE and that one felt the most like windows it also had support for wallpaper engine which I really wanted!
As a power user of windows I’ve lost faith in Ubuntu, though. Their DNS implementation alone is a disaster. So I’ve switched to Debian and KDE, but then I saw there is a Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) so that’s probably what I would recommend if anyone asked me. I personally haven’t used it yet tho as I’m enjoying KDE.
Cinnamon is not the Ubuntu DE, it’s Linux Mint’s.
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu
someone who switches away from the distro’s default desktop environment is not a new user.
Endeavour OS offers these on install
But the post is more about recommending a DE to start with/them picking one they like since it’s visual. And then you recommend a distro where that is default
You get to choose whatever in my distro’s installer
only distro ive tried that had that was debian (and arch if you count a tty as an installer), which one do you use?
NixOS
isnt nix installed in a similar way to arch?
Well sure. My approach for looking for a distro was usually “which ones have KDE and pacman” and after that I start comparing.
Not a hot take, I keep saying the same thing in different threads. I was not able to switch to Linux for years before I understood that I have problems with Gnome not with Linux itself, tried KDE and given I was migrating from Windows it clicked immediately.
After you gain some experience, DE becomes mostly irrelevant, but it is crucial for starting off in an unfamiliar environment.
the DE is very important unless you have A LOT of free time and REALLY WANT to see something different from what youre used to.
my first distro (other than ubuntu in school computers, but we dont talk about those) was fedora server minimal install, where i installed dwm and had fun using it. i had just switched from windows and was happy to have so many options, even though i had (almost) no linux experience before. after trying most of the big DEs and distros, i ended up on arch with xfce, which i have been using for more than a year now.
most people really should go slower and try things step by step, as what i did would be really weird for anyone that tried it …probably
There’s Two Main Choices:
Packages…
- Pacman-based - Arch, Arco, Endeavour
- RPM-based - Fedora, SuSE
- Aptitude-based - Ubuntu, Debian
Choose Pacman for rolling release, bleeding edge. Pick aptitude for servers and pick RPM if you want something that ‘just works’.
Desktop…
- Full DE - Gnome, KDE
- Window Manager - Awesome, i3
High end machines with lots of fancy features and ease of use pick a full DE. WM is good for speed and low-end hardware but harder to use.
Disagree on picking RPM distros for an absolute beginner (this is what the image is about at least). SUSE maybe but you don’t want a newbie having to deal with US patent bullshit and especially SELinux. Similarly, no newbie will ever pic a barebones WM as a first time user.
It’s a very rough guide I threw together. There’s all sorts of wedge cases you could use to argue against it. E.g. you could use RPMs on slack Linux. Not exactly user friendly.
Bit on the whole fedora or Suse do the job.
Also desktops are better for newbies. I thought I’d mentioned that but yeah I agree deffo better for newbies while WM managers more for tinkerers/power users.
I started on CentOS and don’t remember any issues but that was a long time ago. I flirted with Suse, Ubuntu, and Arch when RH started being a super dick. I finally settled on Rocky, rpm is the devil I know.
Apt, not Aptitude. Aptitude is just one of many front ends for Apt. I usually go for Synaptic.
Started using Debian because I only used it for servers to begin with. Learned APT and never dared to learn anything else. So now I just stick with any distro using APT and a DE I like.
So for gaming… Pacman? I thought mint and kubuntu use aptitude, and was under the impression those are two of the better gaming distros.
I hate windows, but am sick of trying Linux every 5-6 years and finding out that I cannot get half the games I play to work. Admittedly, with you guys I might not be going it alone this time…
Debian-based systems (including Ubuntu and its forks such as Mint) uses dpkg and APT (APT does all the communicating with repositories, dependency managment etc, dpkg actually installs and removes packages.) Aptitude is a TUI front-end for APT that gives you a menu-based system in the terminal. Synaptic (not to be confused with the trackpad driver) is a GUI front-end for APT.
I game on Linux Mint. Now it might be my tendency to play single player and/or cooperative multiplayer (think Stardew Valley or Unrailed!) games often made by smaller studios and indie developers as most of the AAA space has otherwise offended me, but…I don’t really have a problem. The vast majority of things just install and run from Steam.
I’d say, just use Ubuntu if gaming is your main concern.
Imo the main problem for games are 1. hardware drivers (afaik only if you have brand new hardware), 2. game launchers (fuck those fucking game launchers, fuck; except steam) and 3. anti- cheat software.
Otherwise gaming is really good under Linux nowadays.
Steam on linux has tons of games. But not all of them (Baulder’s Gate 3.)
Steam on linux has tons of games. But not all of them (Baulder’s Gate 3.)
I play Baldur’s Gate 3 on my Fedora KDE Linux system just fine.
BG3 running fine on my Ubuntu box.
This isn’t a bad take. DE is what is going to keep people from running back to windows right away, mostly. I do think it is better for people coming into Linux not to try to emulate the Windows experience. It is easier to learn when you accept it is going to be different from the start.
DE is how you interact with everything else on the computer for anyone thats not a 100% terminal hackerman.
a good, simple, easy to use windows-like DE is probably one of the most important things for a new user. Since it will influence how easily they can handle and do anything and everything else.
I think that SteamOS is a great place to start people off with Linux.
edit: I mean if you plug a steam deck into mouse and keyboard and use it as a linux box.
it has the support of another company hiding as “games” and can WINE pretty easy with Steam controlling the WINE.
So Arch with KDE
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I don’t think they will officially support it outside of the deck IMO, having used one in the flesh they have hardware optimization down to a tee - which to me really rounds off the deck experience.
The rapid sleep/wake and some options in the quick access menu would likely need some ironing out on other hardware configs, not sure how nvidia card support would work too…
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Cinnamon is epic dekstop environment
Agreed. I used to be the tech support for my family members. Everyone I switched to Mint Cinnamon stopped calling me. (That’s also when I realised my relatives never call me to share good news or to ask about me.)
(That’s also when I realised my relatives never call me to share good news or to ask about me.)
I feel that in my bones, mate
Perfect gateway for Windows migrants. This and Mint are excellent starter distros.
I mean you don’t ever have to switch but many people do, if only to explore their options
After using Mint for quite a few years, I’ve switched to NixOS. Still using Cinnamon, though, that DE won me over.
I 100% agree! Am a pretty new user of Nobara as a daily driver, switched like a month ago (I did have extensive CLI experience with Linux servers, along with Kali VM for work), and I’ve only realized what DE actually is only a week ago, because no one mentioned how important choice it is - it was usually just a note, that wasn’t given enough importance.
So please, if you’re ever recommending any linux distro to somenone who’s asking, please include a short paragraph about what DE is and how importnant choice it actually is, and that they should not ignore it. I hated Gnome, and KDE feels so much better (only found about it when reinstalling broken first Fedora install to Nobara), but I didn’t know I can switch or that there was that choice in the first place - I though KDE vs Gome is a back-end thing, similar to X11 vs Wayland. It’s not, but people don’t usually explain it when recommending distributions.
#You are perfectly right.
All major distributions offer all major Environments. I currently use either Debian or Ubuntu and usually install by booting the Netinstall.iso right from the official Servers which installs just the base system without any GUI at all. Then I use tasksel to select the environment. Ok, not every Environment is part of Tasksel but often it is just adding another Repository and running another apt install operation.
And yes, on my experimental computer I often install a dozen environments just because I can. Selectable at Login-Screen.
But now somethings VERY important from someone with 35 years of POSIX experience:
If you are a newby FOR GODS SAKE USE UBUNTU.
And if you are a pro… Ubuntu still is a very good option. Only if your have VERY GOOD REASONS which you COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, only then use something else. Which is Debian for me.
newby FOR GODS SAKE USE UBUNTU.
Newbie here. Is Mint similar
mint is similar (its based on ubuntu) but it is significantly better imo
Sort of newbie here as well. Why is it better?
I used Ubuntu for about 2 years in 2006 to 2008, but have been on Windows since. I like Ubuntu, and looking in to dual booting with Windows now. Should I go for Mint instead of Ubuntu?
Canonical, the company that has been taking care of Ubuntu, has made many bad choices (including Amazon launcher, telemetry, Snap packages…). Linux Mint rises as an alternative because of these bad decisions.
Oh damn, I wasn’t aware. Never using Ubuntu again if they try shit like that. But if Canonical goes under, won’t that effect Mint? I mean if it is based on Ubuntu? (If my understand of it is correct)
Mint is Ubuntu based but they also maintain a parallel Debian based Mint (LDME). If Ubuntu died they would just switch focus to LDME.
Oh I see, thank you for the clarification
You should probably go for mint because of the reasons the other person that replied mentioned, but it’s your choice, go with whichever you like (you may also like zorinos)
Thank you! I’ve never heard of zorinos but I’ll look in to it
I use Arch because not only am I into self abuse, I also enjoy being publicly flogged whenever I ask for help, which is never, because anytime I have a problem with it, there’s a pretty good chance someone else has asked before me.
If you are a newby FOR GODS SAKE USE UBUNTU.
As an IT professional, I use Ubuntu LTS only because I don’t want to spend my time tinkering around with the OS itself.
Basically, it’s this comic:
All my hare-brained development ideas are more or less sandboxed in Docker containers. Rarely I need to schlep out to Sourceforge to get the right app for something. Most of the time there’s an apt or flatpack thing for what I’m up to, but I do go on a spree purging all that from time to time.
My only complaint is with Nvidia driver support/quality/maintenance, but I get that’s not Canonical’s fault.
What’s wrong with Debian?
I’m a newbie, used a derivative of Ubuntu (xubuntu) since my computer is slow and old as fuck, it ended up somehow breaking my pc into only booting the drive with the Linux install on it and refuse to boot anything else not even live USBs (putting back in my windows drive just shows “success Ubuntu” in the top left corner)
If you think it’s bios related please tell me, because I tried to mess with every damn setting related to this (I didn’t try resetting the CMOS but I doubt it will do anything)
If anything it probably made me hate Ubuntu based distros in general (couldn’t try anything else because the pc is fucked)
If you are a newby FOR GODS SAKE USE UBUNTU.
As someone who only a couple of years ago made the jump to linux. I’d also recommend PopOS super easy to start with.
PopOS is a sure way of getting into ten times more problems than Ubuntu.
Seriously, I know them all. Started with NetBSD in 1991, used pretty much everything.
If your system isn’t super weird then Ubuntu is the most relaxed experience you will ever have as a newby.
(And yes, I am not using Ubuntu currently. But then, I hat 35 years of POSIX/Unix/Linux experience)
How?
I actually had more issues with Ubuntu than popos. And the one audio issue I had, the system76 guys were fantastic.
Ubuntu is filled with bloat these days, and your actually better off with straight Debian than Ubuntu. Not to mention as a whole Ubuntu has made some ‘questionable’ decisions in recent times
If you are a newby FOR GODS SAKE USE UBUNTU.
Absolutely! I actually recommend Ubuntu for people used to MacOS, and Zorin (based on Ubuntu) for those used to Windows. Start simple and learn from there.
I’m a long time Linux user 20 years or so and have tried loads of distros in that time. Eventually I got fed up and settled on Mint for quite a few years, but about 6 months ago an old colleague told me about Zorin as he was impressed with how it felt ‘proper’ from a user perspective. I tried it and actually liked it so much I fully switched to it as my main OS. It’s got all the user friendliness for when you just want to use it for work tasks, but still everything else underneath for when you want to experiment etc.
Yes! Well said. For me it was instrumental in finally making the switch to Linux.
