As an Air Force veteran this all is all hitting home so hard. I joined the Air Force right out of high school because my dad was in the Air Force and my grandfather was in the Army Air Corp, so of course I bought everything they were selling. We always made jokes about turning the Middle East into glass, or said little slogans like, “When it absolutely has to be destroyed overnight, call the Air Force.” I wish I could chalk that up to being young and dumb, but the leadership perpetuated these things and after 9/11 it really dehumanized what we were doing. I felt proud knowing that bombs I loaded on a plane were not there when it came back. I never once questioned why they attacked us in the first place. And I certainly didn’t learn about global politics with my high school education from Texas.
After I got out, and got educated, and started seeing the world through a larger lens, it shifted my point of view. I’ve gone from hardcore republican who voted for George W Bush, to voting for Bernie Sanders. I feel ashamed of how I used to think and act. I am very anti-war on all fronts. No one should ever have to lay down their life for some shithead politician.
With that said, I made the horrible decision to go to the Air Force subreddit to see what they were saying about these recent events. And it hurt me to see them all spouting the same shit I would have said 20 years ago. Crap about how the middle east has been fighting each other for 1,000 years, so we should just let them all kill themselves. And they strongly pushed the Aaron Bushnell was just some crazy radical anarchist. Or people saying his leadership failed him, or how did he have a security clearance, etc. There was not one single mention of how what was going on over there is beyond fucked up.
So, seeing other veterans stand up for this makes me feel a little better and gives me hope. I just hope that is makes it’s way down the ranks and into the young service members and recruits.
I feel ashamed of how I used to think and act.
Hey friend, I would like to offer you a reframing of this situation. Despite being exposed to some of the strongest cultural indoctrination into warmongering and the military, you made it out and embraced empathy and learning. That’s huge. I’m proud of you, that’s a positive change most people never make. You should be proud of it.
I just hope that is makes it’s way down the ranks
You have a powerful and important story. Sharing it like you did just now helps more than hopes can. Keep sharing it, you never know who might be reading it and encouraged to question the lessons they were taught.
Thanks. It definitely helps to hear someone reframe it like that. It was actually cathartic just typing that all out. The hope that it could encourage others is even better.
Cringing and being disappointed in our previous selves is a good thing. It shows growth and learning. Don’t be too hard on yourself
Thanks for sharing your story. I hope you continue to tell it. Your point about high school education is important.
At the time the Iraq war was kicking off, I happened to have a history teacher that made us spend every Friday discussing current events. She made it clear to us that the premise of WMDs in Iraq was a lie and that the war would turn out like Vietnam. All these years later these ideas are not controversial, but way back then she said it when many people were saying the opposite. Needless to say, it kept me out of the military and helped me understand what was going on. Critical thinking is so important and we need capable public educators who can encourage young people to think for themselves. It can have a major impact on the life paths people choose.
That’s awesome that you had a teacher who did that. That is one of the main reasons I’m planning on moving out of Texas. I want my kids to get educated by teachers who are not under constant threat from the state.
crazy radical anarchist
Yeah because setting ourselves on fire is just something us “crazy radical anarchists” do on a regular basis.
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Lmao i love how stupid you people are with joining the military and then realizing you were brainwashed.
Someone who is stupid would stay brainwashed but clearly this individual woke up. If you’re taught something from the day you were born then it is ingrained into you and quite hard to change. Thankfully many of the youth have started seeing the bullshit sooner but there are still people being bred into this ideology that need a chance to see the world and form their own opinions lest they be stuck in their parents ways.
No tankies, we dont call all left leaning people Tankies, its specifically those of you that suck off Russia and China
But that means a bunch of GOP Reps and Senators are tankies. They love sucking off Russia!
I see nothing wrong with this definition
Same
Never said I support either.
Cool, you’re not a Tankie then!
Tankie has become shorthand for anyone who believes in Communism, Russia isn’t Communist China is.
I don’t know that I’d call them communist honestly. They have a pretty equal blend of capitalism and communism.
There’s capitalism and communism in both, but first and foremost they’re dictatorships.
Russia is more capitalist then we are.
I don’t see how you could say after ‘shock therapy’ that Russia is still a blend of communism in good faith.
Like, I’m not trying to say Russia is a democracy, because obviously it isn’t, but the communist party is explicitly banned in Russia.
It’s quite understated just how much worse capitalism is in Russia. They have outright oligarchs, who make US CEOs look like equitable angels.
You can use them as a litmus test for Western politicians who claim to be leftist. If they rail against domestic billionaires and corps but have no issue dining with Russian oligarchs, they’re just trying to trick you. Jill Stein is the foremost example that comes to mind.
jill stein did not dine with russian oligarchs, and she has been critical of them. so you’re kind of making things up.
She was at the RT dinner with quite a few big names.
Its shorthand for those who suck off Russia and China. If you are a communist who understands that those two countries are the exact opposite of ideals we should shoot for, you are not a Tankie
Fuck Putin.
Guillotine Putin
Oh look… a liberal who doesn’t know what the term tankie means. Do they churn you out in a mould or something?
Mike Prysner is fucking based.
Most y’all would call him a tankie and shoo him out of here.
Does he believe in the state using force to kill and brutally suppress its citizens to enforce their rule and limit democratic freedoms?
Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China. We don’t call those people tankies, we call tankies tankies.
Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China.
To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: “I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Viet Cong ever called me the N-word”.
Hitler never tried to kill me based on my ethnicity but I’ve still got a problem with him.
You can and should oppose fascism and authoritarianism without being the targeted victim.
Hitler never tried to kill me
We didn’t enter the war with Germany until after Pearl Harbor. So, it was less Hitler than Tojo that ultimately provoked our entry into the war.
You can and should oppose fascism and authoritarianism
It should be noted that FDR opposed fascism in Europe by sending enormous amounts of military aid to a certain Russian Communist by the name of Joseph Stalin. Quite a few of his peers argued the opposite. It was Stalin who was the true menace and Hitler who should have been our natural ally.
So, who should we have opposed? The Fascist or the Authoritarian?
Americans thinking the world is America.
The first great communist revolution of the 20th century began as an anti-war movement during WW1.
And look how shit that turned after Stalin got involved.
Are you saying you have no issue with China because you aren’t a Uigher?
Leftism should be accompanied by the belief that no matter where someone is born or with what traits, they should be able to live a happy and comfy life. No government should be exempt from persecuting people. A Tankie says “well, hold on” if it’s a government they like.
Leftism should be accompanied by the belief that no matter where someone is born or with what traits, they should be able to live a happy and comfy life.
You’re not describing “Leftism”. You’re describing “Consumerism”. The leftist struggle for a free and equitable society does not guarantee happiness or comfort. It guarantees a worker’s right to the fruits of one’s labor.
And sending troops abroad to butcher civilians and burn down their homes does nothing to accomplish either.
A Tankie says “well, hold on”
Again, it is absolutely crazy to see to “tankie” conflated with “please stop bombing people”.
How the hell did you get “a Tankie says to stop bombing people” from “a Tankie excuses genocides if they like the country”?
My whole point is that there’s certain countries where they don’t say “please stop bombing people” and make excuses defending the country instead.
It’s very telling however that your thought of people being able to live happily and freely no matter where they’re born or with what traits is “consumerism”.
“a Tankie excuses genocides if they like the country”
Fascists constantly telling me that we need to bomb the village in order to save it, and if you don’t support napalming My Lai, you’re with the Terrorists.
My whole point is that there’s certain countries where they don’t say “please stop bombing people”
Name. That. Country.
It’s very telling however that your thought of people being able to live happily and freely no matter where they’re born or with what traits is “consumerism”.
Its Utopian to believe people simply stop having problems under a particular ideological system. Capitalists and Communists alike need to deal with droughts and pandemics and supply chain failures and climate change.
Neither system guarantees people happiness and freedom.
But recognizing ecological limits means you’re a “tankie”? While devouring seed corn because it makes you happy is… what? Real Leftism?
I get the feeling we are terribly misunderstanding each other and talking past the other. I think I see your point about there being problems in any system, but I think it behooves us to strive for the ideal, even if it’s unattainable.
In general, Russia tends to be the country that tankies make excuses for. Instead of condemning the actual country invading Ukraine and bombing civilians, they’ll say it’s Ukraine’s fault for wanting to join NATO, for instance.
If you disagree with that thinking, then good. You aren’t a Tankie. There were a number of “leftist” thinkers at the outset of the war who blamed the West and NATO for Russia invading, instead of Russia. And some still insist the bloodshed has to stop by Ukraine suing for peace, instead of Russia leaving.
Fascists constantly telling me that we need to bomb the village in order to save it, and if you don’t support napalming My Lai, you’re with the Terrorists.
In Ukraine war, Tankies suggest Russia is just defending itself and its “spheres of influence”. It’s not dissimilar from your example. If you don’t understand Russia’s “very reasonable” response of bombing Ukraine to prevent it from joining NATO, you’re called a Western imperialist, unironically.
The other main example is with China and the Uighurs. Detaining a cultural group in concentration camps and forcibly reeducating them and erasing their culture is typically seen as genocide, but with China you’ll hear Tankies make excuses that it’s to stop terrorism and that is all Western propaganda and there’s nothing suspicious going on at all.
Once again, if that isn’t you, you aren’t a Tankie. I’d argue tankies actually have a concerning natural alliance with fascists.
Moderates are eager to paint leftists as Tankies when that isn’t the case, I agree with you there. That doesn’t mean the term has no meaning nor utility however.
Everyone here who isn’t a center right Biden supporter is essentially a tankie according to the majority of users here.
Anarchists who show a modicum of respect for MLs and don’t go along with the center right party line? TANKIES!
Communists of all sorts who might find themselves somewhere in the middle of Y axis? TANKIES!
Left unity in face of the center right? TANKIES!
You don’t vote Biden? China or Russian psyop and a tankie!
The majority of users on Lemmy are leftists, so I doubt that immensely.
The majority of users on Lemmy are leftists
Liberals aren’t leftists. You don’t have much excuse for not knowing the difference by now.
I said leftists, because they are.
The majority here are not liberals.
The majority here are not liberals.
The majority of people here are liberals - not leftists.
Strongly disagree.
The majority of people here aren’t tankie fucks, but they’re certainly leftists.
The majority of users on Lemmy are
leftistsliberals, so I doubt that immensely.ftfy. At least on lemmy.world. And no being a liberal doesn’t make you a leftist, nor even necessarily left of center, depending on what brand of liberalism you subscribe to.
Give me a fucking break, no self respecting leftist would give Biden their vote. The vast majority here is liberals cosplaying as leftists to undermine actual left unity.
“Everyone to the south of a ML is a liberal”. Ironic.
America has no choice, they don’t live in a democracy. They get to pick Trump or Biden, you can whinge that they should all grab their guns and revolt, but they can’t even get enough people together to peacefully change things so that isn’t happening any time soon.
You can be an accelerationist and hope that Trump winning will create class consciousness, but you’re paying for that with the lives of christo-fash victims.
What’s your solution mate?
It’s too fucking easy with you guys.
What’s your solution?
Tell me more how you don’t understand the US political situation and elections please.
Bam, I fucking knew it! Thanks for proving my point.
I don’t feel like rewording this to better fit the conversation so:
https://lemmy.world/comment/7927657
TL;DR Third party is not viable in the current US voting system no matter how hard you fantasize about it. And not voting for the non wannabe dictator so you can stroke off over how you “showed it to the system” is even dumber or you actually like dictators.
Holy shit that is him, he’s not even mentioned in the article.
I only call people tankies if they support tankie shit like killing everyone with a college degree, or glasses
I don’t know much about the guy but, as someone thats perfectly willing to call tankies tankies, he seems like the opposite of one. Just don’t do tankie shit and you wont get called one.
Its genuinely crazy to see how quickly Americans have adopted the idea that “Tankie” is the best way to describe Anti-war advocates, while the Blue Lives Matter crowd are in favor of peaceful coexistence.
I have never seen tankie used outside of using it for far left war mongering
far left war mongering
Which country did the Far Left advocate invading recently?
throw a flag in there for good measure
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Have you met a conservative? They lose their God damn mind over the simplest shit
Ahhh, take off the uniform BEFORE burning it! That’s where he went wrong /s
Dude…
Nah bro let him cook
