Do you miss phones with replaceable batteries? By 2027, you won’t anymore because, by law, almost every smartphone will have them again.
Remember that consumers expect certain things from smartphones nowadays, which will mean that OEMs can’t just go back to the old way of doing things. An IP68 rating would be very difficult to obtain while still offering a premium-feeling device with an easily replaceable battery, for example. These are hurdles OEMs will need to get over to be in compliance.
this is straight-up BS. there were many phones with ip68 and user-replacable batteries back when sealing the battery in a phone was frowned upon. not all but many.
The term “premium-feeling” does a lot of heavy lifting in that paragraph, one might almost say that it’s a bit subjective.
It’s true though. I’ve become very accustomed to the premium experience of being forced to use premium apps and services that don’t work half the time in a very premium manner.
I think it would be pretty premium if I could have a spare battery on the charger for a quick swap rather than relying on a cable to charge my phone.
Move over 2010. Who uses a cable?
I do? And most people I know?
What they really mean is “very slightly thinner than the previous generation or current rival because we think that’s a super marketable thing still even though we’ve reached the practical limit where it no longer makes sense to go thinner.”
Meanwhile the phone can’t lie flat on its back because the camera protrudes.
Solution: add phonecase! Or just have better (and slightly bigger) internals to make backside level…
I have a two-way radio which floats in water and has a replaceable battery. It’s just excuses. However I do believe they got rid of replaceable batteries to save on space and thickness of the devices.
Thickness is the only concern I have. I’d love to be able to replace the battery in my iPhone safely and easily, but I don’t really want to give up having a phone that’s less than 10mm thick.
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And it had completely different innards and battery capacities. Just grabbing that old battery and putting it in a new phone would seriously limit the runtime on a single charge. Which is kinda the point, I really hope we don’t trade replaceable batteries for the need to recharge twice a day or switch batteries to even make it the whole day. Or have a noticeable bulkier phone that won’t fit as comfortably in my pocket. Or that it may not survive the rain shower I got surprised by because they skimped on the water proofing.
The size thing is just another excuse.
There were/are phones with replacable batteries that are thinner than most current phones. Some were 7.5mm and even less.
The main factor to consider in making an ultrathin phone in 2023 has nothing to do with the battery. It’s the requirement for a certain level of build quality to be suitable for end consumers. At some point we just need to develop new materials, because we can’t make it any more ultrathin without it also becoming ultrafragile using the materials available.
It hasn’t really been a focus since we realised back around the iPhone 5 that making these sweeping compromises for thinness was yielding diminishing returns and causing other problems. Today that’s still the thinnest mainline iPhone, only the SE and 12 Mini are thinner. 13 mini is thicker, and there is no 14 mini.
Ergonomics matter too. At this point going thinner is purely a marketing exercise rather than a practical improvement of any kind. If they were able to businesses would be making them so thin you can’t hold them without risking a paper-cut so long as that allowed them to convince people that meant it was better than their current, designed for human hands, smartphone. Same thing with size. Personally I prefer a larger display and am willing to accept slightly worse ergonomics for it but even with more or less average sized hands I definitely find phones with 6 inch or under screens much more comfortable in the hand than the more typical sizes today and I know plenty of people with smaller than average hands (ie, half of the population) who really hate holding modern gigantic phones (and so often have held off on upgrading to a new model until I’ve steered them to something the same size as their old one.)
Thickness of your phone is now dictated by cameras. Because of focal lengths and what not, they need to be a certain size, that’s why they’re always with an overhang.
I think you’re right. They then quickly learned that it’s in their best interest to have a sealed system. Makes it cheaper to obtain higher IP ratings. Sells more devices. It obviously did nothing that hurt sales. Samsung is making an IP68 rated device with replaceable battery and still takes SD cards right now. It’s only $600 to boot making it handedly cheaper than flagships. So why isn’t it what everyone’s pointing at in these threads? Cause the majority of people, even in these very threads, aren’t buying it. These are not the factors that decided buying a phone. Otherwise removable batteries, SD cards and 3.5mm jacks would still be ubiquitous, but here we are.
Honestly, I never buy a phone without an audio jack and sd card.
The Galaxy Xcover 6 pro is a box full of lies in terms of IP68 rating and associated warranty. I have written about my utterly disappointing experience of getting caught in a storm a couple of months after I bought it quite extensively elsewhere. Save to say I will not be buying another samsung product. It seems they have forgotten how they used to make that design work.
Great phone, just not waterproof at all.
I have an old LG V20 (released in 2016) with a removable battery that’s just 7.6mm thick. By comparison the Iphone 14Max is 7.9mm thick, the Samsung S23 Ultra - 8.9mm and the Oneplus 11 - 8.5mm.
IMO the purpose of non-replaceable batteries is (just like everything else) profit. Companies want to push us to replace the entire phones every two years rather than just the batteries. They’ve been remarkably effective at doing just that.
One of them being the Galaxy S5 (I think)
You’re correct, though the Galaxy S5 is a bad example. Tthe device looked and felt like a Fischer Price toy. It had flaps everywhere, was annoying to use, and even had a billion software notifications to keep reminding you to monitor and close said flaps. Nowadays we can certainly do better.
There still are today. Samsung Xcover series.
Yeah, I scuba dive and have multiple pieces of equipment with replacable batteries that are good down to 500+ ft. Not only do some of them get opened frequently, and without replacing seals or anything, but they’re also all way cheaper than my phone! Anyone who says you can’t easily meet an IP68 rating on a phone with replacement batteries is full of shit.
Do those have the same size and weight requirements a phone has? This isn’t about “can this be done”, it is a question about “which compromises do we have to accept to make this happen”.
Yeah my 2023 XCover 6Pro has a removable battery and ip68 rating. You wouldn’t be able to tell the back cover comes off. The only clue that something’s off is that it’s texturized plastic instead of glass or aluminium.
Producers got away with going to non-replaceable batteries because “most” people replace their phone before the battery wears out. Only a portion of consumers have a problem with it.
I’m sure there’s a few of us that can comfortably get six years off a phone. In fact the phone I’m currently using is coming up on three years. I could probably get another three years out of it, but I’m going to have to replace it soon because of battery wear.
Non-replaceable batteries are bad for the consumer and bad for the environment. It forces obsolescence putting more financial strain on consumers and increases environmental impact with higher production and waste.
A phone replaced before three years could be sold second hand with a battery replacement. Otherwise consumers could keep a phone twice as long. So they’re basically doubling the rate of production and waste to squeeze as much money as possible out of the consumer. Then there’s zero regard for the environment. But you know that’s typical of how corporations do business, rape the Earth, screw the consumer. We have to keep a leash on these guys.
You are right. My iPhone XR is around 4 or 5 years old, and now I need to charge it in the afternoon if I have used it during work to spend some time. I guess that in a year I’ll have to replace it because the battery will last even less.
I just barely replaced my galaxy s8, and it wasn’t the battery that became the issue, it was the lack of any new software updates.
I was starting to have software compatibility issues, where installing new apps would say “android verision x is not supported”. Also, I’m pretty sure it was getting any security patches from either samsung or upstream google.
I’m now looking at repurposing the s8 into a security camera since I think it’s a waste to just throw it in a drawer.
Yes yes, but companies mandate is to maximize profits and have constant growth. All those things you’re mentioning sound very anti-capitalist. The elite would have a hard time taking all the wealth and keeping everyone as slaves.
While I do agree that we need more modular phones, laptops, etc. having a replaceable battery would prevent phones to be fully water proof.
But I do agree with you, I have a 2-year old phone and I already experience the battery degradation. I would most likely use this phone for another year, max two, but then would be pissed by how often I need to charge it and start looking into purchasing a new one.
Planned obsolescence is definitely a thing that enriches corporations
There are so many ways you can waterproof a phone and have a user replaceable battery and still keep it thin and sleek. But that doesn’t sell a new iPhone to someone every 2 years. It’s why anytime Apple, or any company like them, spouts off about how green they are, I know they’re full of shit. They intentionally cause so much waste it’s insane.
I wish they had some truly modular phones. The phone I am currently using is quite bulky compared to slim model phones and even a lot of Iphones, I don’t care. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be able to swap put almost every component other than the screen, it’s not like the phone frame themselves have really changed much from the original Iphones. Battery, Storage, Processor, RAM, Speaker, Receiver…even the camera. I see no reason why those couldn’t be part of modular systems.
They could just incorporate a gasket + screws. There are a ton of waterproof devices that have replaceable batteries.
I don’t think an actual waterproof phone even exists. They’re water resistant.
My Samsung Galaxy XCover 6Pro has a removable battery (and a headphone jack) and it’s ip68 rated. You wouldn’t be able to tell from the outside that the back cover comes off.
Waterproof ratings are all nonsense anyways IMO. The way appliances are tested does not take into consideration human error.
Gotta drop the phone a couple times onto concrete to simulate how morons like me treating it, then check its water resistance.
The Galaxy S5 active is evidence that you’re just wrong. Classic removable battery but still IP67.
The question I’ve been asking, since this whole water resistance thing became a trend, is why do we even need water resistant phones in the first place?
We survived just fine with flip phones, walkmans, Gameboys, pagers, etc that had no water resistance.
The yellow sony walkman was waterproof.
I don’t really mind that my battery doesn’t work well. It lasts through the day, though I’m perpetually at 40% or less and I don’t use it that much. If it’s really a problem then a battery bank charge mid day totally fixes it.
However, if I could replace the battery for $50 I would.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again (someone else definitely said this before me) I’m totally fine with a user replaceable battery but I don’t really need a “hot swappable” battery. Don’t you guys remember the old memes where an android phone is dropped and the Lego brick breaking sound effect is used from the Lego video games. I’m ok with a semi sealed device for water resistance and what not. It would just be nice to be able to replace the battery when the time comes
The memes I don’t remember but … I’m old. And…
Reading this gave me an instant flashback of dropping my old Ericsson on a train and it just … lost all its parts! Man that was 😱
Yes I had to hunt for: the battery, the battery cover and the SIM card! In those days the latter was bigger than we have now but very expensive.
To be honest: hot swappable wasn’t all that cool or user friendly at all. You had the dropping issue, the dirt and grime got in the cracks causing it to loose contact. Just like a mouse ball back in the day. All that and … when it was time to change it, never found a replacement and the phone was just outdated anyway.
Now all those different chargers we had? That was the real nightmare. Man! Very glad that is solved, even with the mess usb-c is.
I fear this is again one of those rules politician’s make without any knowledge; or they just ignore reality. Per usual.
just the first one I found but basically this . and I feel that with the move to USB C or even with iphones and the lightning cable. You either have one of those two so it’s pretty nice now compared to back then
I can’t really remember if that was an issue for my S4. I’m sure it happened like once or twice but I don’t really drop my phone and I’m sure the majority of people nowadays have a case that will pretty much prohibit the battery cover from opening. What I DO remember is keeping a spare battery in my wallet and anytime my phone was low (I’m terminally addicted and 3 hours of screen on time was the best I got back then) just popping that bad boy in. Was a great feature and took a lot of stress off of me in the days when battery life was terrible. I hope they can revive a feature like that in a modern premium phone.
I had a Galaxy s4! and I remember I bought 2 extended batteries (about 3000mah but they were the same size so who knows) and a wall charger for them from ZeroLemon. I would hot swap the batteries instead of charging my phone. it was such a convenient system I felt so cool 🤓
I really miss hot swappable batteries. Just carry a small spare battery and swap it when needed. So much now convenient than needing to plug it in to top up.
The legislation allows that. It just says that batteries have to be available and replaceable by non-specialists using standard tools. Think a small torx screwdriver, maybe a spudger, no glue type of situation and definitely no soldering or crypto-locking batteries to the mainboard and CPU so even specialists can’t replace stuff without signing their first-born to the manufacturer (hello Apple).
You can do that now with a heat gun and some very basic tools.
That’s an overstatement. It takes a lot of work for some phones and you risk damaging it. Not everyone is able to do it even with the right tools. We need to have a solution so that anyone can do it
I literally bought an iFixIt kit to open my phone up (for a screen replace rather than a battery swap, but still) and could not get it open after an hour+ of trying. I’d definitely believe it’s because I’m inexperienced in modern phone repair, but I’m not a generally unsavvy person. I build computers and mess around with tech as a hobbyist. I had to take it to a shop and return the kit. It’s definitely not an easy process for some devices.
You can do that now with a heat gun and some very basic tools.
A heat gun is a specialized tool. That’s the problem.
It’s really not a specialized tool.l at all, there are a million things you can use a heat gun for. And they’re like $20 at Harbor Freight.
A hair dryer?
Not nearly hot enough for these kinds of applications. And you seriously don’t want to dry your hair with a heat gun.
It’s like comparing a NERF gun to a howitzer, sure both shoot projectiles…
It’s what I literally have used for multiple repairs now, so don’t tell me it’s not hot enough. iPhone 11, Pixel 5a, and a Samsung Galaxy S21.
People are gonna hate on this comment but it’s true. I can replace the battery in my iPhone in an hour if I want to, even if it’s not as easy as it used to be with removable plastic covers on the back of phones.
On the Fairphone everyone can do it, without tools in under 30 seconds. That is replaceable, not having to order equipment and asking your family “IT guy”…
Good luck on waterproofing.
Hyperbole. To do it correctly you need a lot of tools which companies like Apple have made it very difficult to obtain. The risk of damaging the device is high for the average person.
I get that the majority of people here on Lemmy are likely to be more tech savvy than the average person, I don’t think we should set the precedent of exaggerated comments, we don’t want to become Reddit.
You start a sentence with hyperbole and then go into an outright lie.
$20
$10
You now own every single tool needed to replace an iPhone battery. They are absolutelty not difficult to obtain.
I mean I get it. Most of us here are tech savvy and capable. Would I tell my mom to do this herself? My girlfriend? 75% of people on the street? No to all the above. But don’t come in here and say something as blatantly false as “Apple has made [a lot of tools] difficult to obtain”. That is a bald faced lie and you do a bigger disservice to your argument when you add such a statement to it.
Its NOT just smartphones
Its damn near everything!
Electric cars, other electronics etc
Some are just not “user replacable” (such as a cars batteries)
this law will change all iPhones. It will also change all tablets, laptops, EVs, e-bikes, and anything else with a rechargeable battery
Headphones, gaming mice, gaminh controllers. Its gonna be great
The big one at the moment - at least in the UK and IMHO - is disposable vapes. I see them everywhere, just tossed on the ground or at the side of the road. The reason I see them is because of their flashing blue LEDs still running, meaning there’s at least a working battery and support circuitry in there. It’s disgusting that something like that is tolerated. I’m hopeful that the requirement to have user-replacable batteries will eliminate them by making them uneconomical compared to standard vapes.
I don’t understand why disposable vapes are even legal at all. I mean we banned friggin’ plastic straws but this thing is fine?! Who even came up with such a terrible product in current times?
The EU by going after the self-mixing market. Bullshit like allowing duties on liquid that doesn’t even contain nicotine so you end up paying through your nose for flavoured glycerine/propylene glycol mix. Limiting nicotine-containing liquids to 20mg/ml max, and 10ml bottles at that, while there were never any issues with what was legal here (Germany) under ordinary toxic substance laws (without being a chemist): 50mg/ml in any size you bloody want (usually 100ml because it degrades once you open it).
Before those laws the market was largely modular systems, tank and mod separate, plenty of replaceable batteries, with all that bullshit added on vaping sensibly became so expensive that people went “meh, can just as well use a pre-built”.
The UK actually were the sensible ones in that area, but I guess the market shift reached them by sheer force of Chinese production capacity.
I wonder how apple will react to this
Apple fanboy here… but they’re probably gonna market the feature with some cool new trendy name and make the battery replacements proprietary.
It will be built from the ground up 😂
Overcomplicated, overpriced, and they’re gonna incentive just getting the next gen phone.
You mean built by some other manufacturer and marketed to seem like it was built from the ground up from Apple themselves.
$300 battery for your iPhone
Screens are now up there for genuine. Oh, and btw Apple very quietly implemented an “alert” when you have an aftermarket screen.
Now i hope it says something about availability of the replacement batteries…
Due to unexpectedly high demand, the $300 battery you ordered has 5 months waiting list. Payment in advance, of course, for your convenience.
I mean…battery replacements were ALWAYS proprietary. You can’t pop a Galaxy S4 battery in a GS 5.
But you can put up a firmware barrier that keeps the phone from booting up, or at least from operating at full advertised capacity, unless it’s an “authentic” battery that’s been officially registered to that particular phone’s serial number, which can only be done via special tools and software that are only available to official Apple repair shops. They’ve done it with cameras and screens and buttons, why not batteries? It’s just another part.
You can buy third party batteries. The batteries are customized to the phone, but they aren’t exclusively sold by the OEM.
“And we think you’re gonna love it”
🙏
It will be magnetic
Oh you probably shouldn’t go around admitting that so willingly.
They’re going to see the battery is replaced and show your phone down. Just to be safe you know.
By designing a model of iphone with replaceable battery, of course.
I think they’re already complying. Tri-tip bits are already bought easily and affordably on Amazon. Same with suction cups, picks and tweezers. Literally $30 or less to get all of the above in one nifty carrying case. If you have suction cups then you can break the screen seal without using heat and let’s be honest, hair dryers are perfectly adequate for these repairs. It’s literally what I use for friends and family repairs that I do at home rather than in my workshop.
I think it’s a step in the right direction but not even remotely strong enough to force change on current cell phones.
Design batteries that can also function independently as a powerbank? That would be useful.
One of my phones battery became swollen and hated not being able to change it without removing the adhesive stuck backing, camera, wireless charging cable, brackets preventing battery cable to be removed normally, battery being adhesive stuck to the battery slot. I hope all phones go back to removable batteries.
Good. I also read appliances (like your electric toothbrush or headphones) will also have to follow this guidance. This should make it easier to repair and recycle electronics.
My toothbrush uses AA for just that reason.
A lot of rechargeable gadgets like Philips Sonicare do not.
I just hope the battery doesn’t cost as much as a new phone would.
The EU almost forced the phone industry to start using standardised/interchangeable batteries.
If the batteries cost as much as a new phone, they’ll reconsider that decision.
It’s so dumb that a standard hasn’t been developed yet. Like AA/C/D, 18650 batteries, etc. They could have modular batteries with different sizes and capacities that work interchangeably.
BL-5C is becoming a de facto standard size for random electronics, but it’s too small for a smartphone.
It took forty years for aa batteries to become a standard. They were a trademark type by I think everready.
From what I got from the article posted a few days ago, I believe it is by large a sustainability/climate effort, targeting all kinds of industry machinery batteries as well as phones. There is likely a bonus for end user usability, but that is relatively incidental.
* in Europe
Tim Cook can suck a fat one.
Oftentimes EU device laws affect other markets because it’s easier to send the same device everywhere than to design and produce a separate one just for Europe.
Yeah I don’t see Apple paying for wildly different phone designs for different markets. But I have no doubts they’ll find some new way to make their phones worthless after 2 or so years.
Updates. That’s all you need to know. They’ve already be caught with the whole slow phone after updates to make you buy a new phone.
I used to say that- but, they did actually have an argument for that- consistent battery life in exchange for lower performance. They thought users would prefer lowering performance of the phone so the battery still lasts just as long- and honestly I don’t think they’re that wrong. 95% of the time as long as it’s usuable I don’t care about the performance of my phone- but I do care about battery life.
He’d probably just enjoy it.
It’s not so much the batteries for me but the USB C port that has been my main issue and that damn humidity/water sensor that thinks that I’ve dipped my phone in water when I haven’t
It’s not a Samsung device is it? Their sensors seem to be super sensitive. Meanwhile my pixel has been used in the shower and not said a word…
It actually is! Second time I’m having the subboard replaced. 3rd time I can request a new phone or a replacement by law. Still not ok for a flagship phone by such a large manufacturer
Try cleaning it. I used to have the same issue, and had to get the subboard replaced multiple times too, until I realized that mechanically cleaning it with something really thin works as well. Felt really dumb after finding out lol. The pocket lint can absorb moisture and then the sensor doesn’t work properly.
I’ll try it out thanks
That’s part of the problem I have with this. Most electronics life cycle is gone before or around the time the battery is gone. Only people that abuse the batteries by over charging / full draining typically benefit from replacement batteries. -And this just mostly needs awareness.
The vast majority of batteries operated devices are stuff that in its use is going to be “abused”. The hell is the harm in letting people switch out a fucking battery if that’s the issue. Companies won’t let people switch batteries out so they are being made. Apple have been fighting tooth and nail over repair shops
You use Apple? lol.
Uhhh no I was just using them as an example of a company that is really against customer repairs
They fucking brick stuff that’s repaired.
Shame this can’t happen for memory and storage.
also for headphone jacks in the future too…
Maybe Framework can solve that riddle one day. I know there was an attempt some time ago by another startup.
I just want Framework to ship to my country… I will keep this lenovo alive on life support until the day Framework arrives.
but only the EU though, everywhere else is still fucked
Chances are most companies aren’t going to make two separate production lines with and without a removable battery. The cost likely outweighs the profit i’d wager. Much like how we see apple finally begrudgingly moving to USB-C despite no NA law requiring them to do so.
I hope so too. But if somehow the cost to manufacture phones with removable batteries is higher then I doubt they’d switch the existing production line to removable battery. I hope I’m wrong, to be honest.
This is what happens in the US when California passes a big consumer friendly law. The companies just adapt to whatever California said because it’s too expensive to have California versions and non-California versions. California’s population is high and their economy is big. Double plus if NY is in on it.
There’s just going to be more plastic phones.
The cost isn’t that much higher. The profit they get from people buying new phone when battery dies, however, is completely different story
Why not? Many companies already have US exclusive SKUs. Some companies like Samsung even have a history of shipping completely different SOCs.
A different chip is a different scenario. We’re talking about how the entire design, case etc has to accommodate for a removable battery.
Different SOC means different motherboard, different antenna layout, different everything. It’s no different from making battery removable.
I’m looking to upgrade my iPhone 11 for no reason other than the battery life is starting to bug me. None of the features released since the 11 hold any interest for me, I literally just want more battery life. Looks like that’ll cost me about $1000 if I want to stay with iOS. Absolutely insane.
Although I am not experienced with iPhone prices, shouldn’t a non-official replacement cost somewhere between $30 and $50? I tend to repair my Android phone batteries every 2-3 years at home, and alongside light software mods they become impressively more usable in the long run.
Just hit up an apple store bud - they’ll swap a new battery for like $89. I had the battery replaced on my 11 a few months ago. Took like 20 minutes.
You know you can get the battery replaced, right? Not as cheap as buying a replacement yourself, but not that much compared to a 1000$ phone.
I’d also say an $89 battery replacement is pretty much the cheapest option (barring aftermarket batteries), especially if you don’t care about the developments in the latest phones.
This is the best news I’ve read in a while. Hopefully the US (or at least Cali) jump on board as well.
Seeing as our (Cali) CCPA is about as strict (if not moreso) than the GDPR it’s not a longshot that they might.
I am curious how Apple will get around that this time. I’m almost sure this will be as funny as the whole story about the USB-C cables
Super capacitor instead of battery. lol
Simply remove the battery and sell iPhones with magsafe battery pack cases instead?
Hopefully all Apple employees are still on Reddit.
or just like the vision pro - a wired external power pack with a proprietary connector to the iPhone, but USB C on the power pack :D
Lmao that’d be hilarious!
