UkraineUnited States is going to lose if Congress doesn’t send more aidThe fact that everyone understands that the war in Ukraine is based on American backing means that it’s a proxy war between the US and Russia.
$773 billion dollars last year spent on fighting “proxy” wars around the world (and if you count the spying, domestically).
The only one that America has actual moral footing to get behind is the only one we are pulling punches on.
Hardly the first time. I’d argue the US made the same mistake in Afghanistan in 2003, diverting resources to Iraq because Bush Jr. had such a hard-on for Saddam.
100%
With each passing day, Biden’s administration looks like the Bush administration’s bigger more right wing brother.
Citizens United needs to be overturned. The Pentagon budget needs to be at least halved. We need the 2 party system to end.
This will never happen if we keep voting for the lesser evil every 4 years.
I agree with the viewpoints, but many voted for the Russia supporting party, and noone else got enough support in the primaries. There needs to be massively increased primary involvement before a systemic change to move away from the two party system can be feasible. I’m a big fan of ranked choice voting myself, but what big party candidate is going to advocate for that in the current climate? I’m hoping changes can happen over the next decade as my generation and the one below get even more active.
Republicans are corrupted spoiled fucks.
Democrats are corrupted spoiled fucks.
How do you think “massively increased involvement” will occur if we keep throwing our votes at these massively corrupt spoiled fucks?
Peaceful abstaining. Quiet sit in. America on strike.
That is the only possible way we have to cause the change we needed at least 50 years ago.
I mean involvement of the voters themselves. I push a lot of my friends to just go vote, but they still won’t. If you figure out how to get people to actually want to fix the situation, let me know.
I know that in America, currently, “peaceful protester” is an officially classified terrorist group. That was what Occupy Wallstreet resulted in.
I have no idea what Blue MAGA is even suggesting when they say “get more involved in government outside of election season”. The concept doesn’t exist.
I definitely still vote on measures.
When my choices are vote for Genocide and continued severe loss of privacy of freedom A or Genocide and continued severe loss of privacy of freedom B, all I can figure is vote disenfranchised. Won’t check the damn box.
Primary results where people did that have already gotten Biden change his half hour chit chat with Bibi from “your US taxpayer dollars are on the way. The weapons you are buying with those dollars are on the way” to “your US taxpayer dollars are on the way. The weapons you are buying with those dollars are on the way, try to go easier on the civilians in Gaza.”
If Biden suffers a shameful and embarrassing defeat, maybe the next Democrat will figure out the correct answer is “fuck you Bibi, you genocidal maniac. Israel is cut off, that money will now be invested into fixing the healthcare crisis in America, our military is moving humanitarian aid into Gaza, and if your genocidal asshats so much as point a gun in the general direction of our soldiers and the starving citizens of Gaza, you will enjoy our crosshairs.”
lose what? the control of another country?
Control over Europe. Russia is funding far-right politicians in Europe.
Yes, no shit. That was the outlook from day 1.
The Russian Army is largely represented as a bunch of baffoons in the Western media, but it’s still one of the 3 largest armies in the world. Ukraine cannot hold their lines indefinitely, the only way to “win” against an opponent that has multiple times your materiel available is guerilla.
There’s no win for humanity through war against an opponent that has thousand of nukes. If one of the nuclear reactors in the region would had been seriously damaged you would be curse every cent that went into fueling this war. We are walking on a thin line already.
Yeah just let them invade us all, that’s the best option.
/s
We already let governments stock piling nukes and take away our freedom
The free world loses when Russia wins.
It’s pretty much an invitation to China to do the same in Taiwan and an invitation for Russia to start more wars in eastern Europe…
Helping Ukraine costs money. Not helping Ukraine costs even more.
Does the free world also include places America has invaded or bombed?
Japan, SK, and Germany seem on board with aid to Ukraine… So yes
Three formerly fascist states join Ukraine
The fuck is your point?
He would rather a current fascist state join them
Liberals understanding fascism challenge (impossible) https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Fascism
Meanwhile, in Ukraine…
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Truthout, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- The Conversation, 2022: Ukraine war follows decades of warnings that NATO expansion into Eastern Europe could provoke Russia
.
Fascism didn’t suddenly appear in 2014, either, it’s been there this whole time.- The History of Fascism in Ukraine Part I: The Origins of the OUN 1917-1941
- History of Fascism in Ukraine Part II: The OUN during World War 2, 1941-1945
- History of Fascism in Ukraine Part III: 1944-1963 UPA War, Ratlines, and the Assassination of Stepan Bandera
- History of Fascism in Ukraine Part IV: The Global OUN Network in Exile, 1962-1992
- The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
“free world” has the same weight here as “state’s rights”
Downvote and move on, but just like the American genocide in Iraq, you will realize I’m right in ~20 years
freeworld
Just say “civilised world” and make it clear you are a fascist. Atleast be honest.
Russia and non-white world will win, and west fascists will lose. Cry about it as much as you want, this is the last of the good days you monsters will live on this planet.
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You mean the “free world” that has Assange, Pablo González and lots of other journalists jailed? The same free world that has destroyed every country that didn’t fall in line with US interests?
The free world 😂 Okay boomer 🇺🇸 🦅
China is already bullying the Philippines too out of our own territorial waters, and they have already caused severe injuries to our countrymen. They literally want an entire sea to themselves and leave us with none. Just look at their nine dash line.
Edit: Here’s their nine-dash-line, they even want Malaysia’s sea, which is a long way away from chinese mainland, while they want seas close to the land territories of so many SEA nations.
severe injuries to our countrymen
It was recently on local news, but that’s not the only conflict that involved water cannons and ships. From the article you can see Vietnam— they once saved filipino fishermen from potentially drowning. (from Philippines) https://www.rappler.com/nation/233079-how-filipino-boat-crew-was-saved-west-philippine-sea/ (from Vietnam) https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/all-gestures-no-words-as-vietnamese-fishermen-saved-22-filipinos-3940276.html. If china continues their actions, there are bound to be casualties. And if that happens, I’m not sure any of us will forgive them.
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Russia is way worse. I’m in Hungary, and our government tries everything to scrub information about stuff they don’t like, all while putting Project 2025-tier evil stuff into our constitution, meaning it could be pretty much be undone by an armed rebellion, which will very unlikely thanks to what I call “weaponized doomerism” (pushing people into inaction via depression, crushed protests, and underfunded health care system), and “political gaslighting” (basically the method behind “you’ll be more conservative as you get older”).
Building weapons and empowering authoritarian regimes is an invitation for anyone for more wars.
Helping Ukraine only costs money if you dump money and weapons at it instead of providing actual help.
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It’s not like we send weapons there and ignore anything else.
Who is we? Do you work for the government?
Funding the future of ukraine after it gets destroyed is yet another dirty profit maneuver
wait, you are not being ironical?
how the fuck do you manage to claim that the west is the free world™ while it is the empire to blame for the largest amount of worldwide suffering in the second half of the twentieth century? It is responsible for countless invasions, sanction regimes and assassinations with the goal of subjugating foreign nations, as well as courting nazis post ww2, like for example people like klaus barbie or wernher von braun, as well as the entire early government of the frg.
your fantasizing about a supposed military threat from the prc to taiwan and from russia to the rest of europe is nothing but pure projection, since you westoids apparently cant imagine someone acting from a different motivation than your own. the prc has time and time again stated that it prefers a peaceful resolution to the taiwan conflict and the province has never officially declared any grade of independence from the mainland, simply being under a different government, the roc.
russia on the other hand has absolutely no reason to start any military conflicts in western europe, something you would know, if you would even try to understand the lead up to the current situation.
your last sentence honestly just sounds like a thinly veiled blood for the blood god.
Fuck off with your Putin propaganda.
Notice how you didn’t address anything in their comment because there’s no argument against it.
Calling things “Russian propaganda” or “Hamas” instead of thinking critically and engaging is an instant win card, didn’t you know?
I didn’t addressed anything because the whole comment is a load of bullshit.
Like your comment?
sadly, even if you follow russian propaganda to the word, which i dont btw, you would still more often than than not end up with the truth. maybe the west should try to be less evil.
Found this video about how Americans live. North Korean propaganda says we eat birds. All countries distort the truth, even ‘Merica. I wish more people understood this.
the video was actually not made by north korea. it is a parody created by a british comedy director. dprk media typically depicts the us in a fairly accurate manner, or at least more truthfully than how american media portrays korea.
I’m so gullible. I wanted to make coffee out of snow after this video. I thought this was real too, until my wife told me it had to be fake. I wanted it to be real.
i feel ya, western propaganda against korea is sadly hard to undo, considering the sheer amount of it. a great way to do it through is to read korean history, with a wonderful beginners read on the topic being this book. after a while you realize that many of the claims against the dprk are often nothing but simple projection, like for example haircut policing being an actual thing in 1980s south korea.
FWIW, there are plenty of politicians in Europe who disagree with you, it’s not an American take, here’s a quote from Lithuania’s PM:
“the outcome of this fight in Ukraine is crucial for Europe.”
“If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, then whatever happens next is Europe’s problem at large,” she said. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-not-stopped-in-ukraine-all-europe-problem-lithuania-pm-2024-3?op=1
lithuania, like all the baltic states, is a us puppet state. also they are so obviously fascist that they even erect monuments to literal nazis.
Okay, now come up with an excuse for Germany:
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-and-ukraine-sign-security-agreement-scholz-zelenskyy/
Also if Europe isn’t concerned about Russia, why has Europe’s defense spending drastically gone up? Clearly there is more going on than your blase attitude is implying.
China doesn’t pose a threat to Taiwan? JFC China disagrees with you
you could try to actually read what china says on the topic, instead of deapthroating american propaganda.
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you westoid liberasts have no reason to be here anyways. just fuck of back to reddit if you dont like it here.
that “chinese style dictatorship” you mentioned is a good thing, obviously.
So Elon Musk-style people are good as long as they’re not leading corporations, but states? I rarely seen anything else among those dictators.
Okay, Elon only hides your Tweet for using the word “cis”, not send you directly to a work camp…
who tf was talking about elon? you fuckers are delusional, lmao
Most of those dictators you love are like him, except they’re more violent.
What’s tators, Precious? Whatever the Atlantic Council and the Council on Foreign Relations and the rules-based international order say they are.
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the western world made their population aware of this wrong actions and helped steer them in the right direction
You say as it’s committing a genocide in Palestine via a western colony.
“Free press” just means capitalist/corporate propaganda; only outlets funded or run by capitalists can realistically reach a large audience.
im sorry to tell you that, but your reasoning is wrong form the first sentence to the last and contains a lot of lies and cia propaganda, which makes it a quite impressive piece of liberalism. lets examine.
already your first statement is wrong, due to the fact that only through studying the history of a particular regime you can begin to make sense of its structure and motivations in accordance with historical and dialectical materialism. it is obvious to anyone, that the us stood for oppression, subjugation and ethnic cleansing from its very inception and hasnt stopped ever since, with them even commiting genocide right now in gaza. with western europe nowadays being nothing more than a satellite of the us, you also mention china and russia, neither of whom are imperialist, since their capitalist economies arent yet in the late stages that make imperialist ambitions possible and necessary. moreover both have historically been victims of western imperialism, and while russia had in fact an imperialist phase until 1917, it never even came close to the atrocities commited by the west.
and no, anti-imperialists like me dont want “revenge”, but justice. such justice can only be achieved by dismantling the illegal settler colony named usa and finally freeing the prison house of nations.
in your second point, you, despite dismissing the study of history previously, try to make references to historical happenings. your only problem is, that you are wrong and end up with nothing but regurgitated cia propaganda, since russia isnt mirroring nazi germany in any way, quite the opposite. the only reason one like you could make such a statement is if you dont know how the nazis operated and who their supporters were. russia is being surrounded and attacked by fascist nato forces, as well as their neonazi proxies, since decades and has shown an incredible amount of restraint in that situation, not only referring from military measures for the longest time, but even trying to cooperate with western powers. the smo is just russia finally making a stand for itself, something that imho should have been done much sooner.
you then compare русский мир to the german lebensraum, concepts that are also entirely unrelated. the german nazi concept is simply a more modern version of the american manifest destiny, an incredibly vile genocidal ideology, that btw also inspired the current zionist colonial project, with the only difference between the two being that the older example succeeded. the russian one meanwhile, while of course being a nationalist concept worthy of criticism, only calls for a sphere of russian cultural and political influence, something that in comparison is rather harmless.
your later notions of alleged russian puppet states demanding to join nato, as well of the ukraine being sovereign after 2014 and most hilariously the west having some semblance of free press that is somehow enlightening the people just look like idealist phantasies with absolutely no ground in reality to me, with me honestly shocked how people are still believing such things after things like operation aerodynamic and operation mockingbird became public information.
the last thing i would like to point out to you is that demands for taiwanese independence should only come from indigenous taiwanese people, not immigrated han chinese who since then unjustly assumed the taiwanese cultural identity. incidentally the indigenous population is one of the core demographics among supporters of reunification with the prc.
and no, i dont claim russia and the prc to be perfect, but they are still obviously preferable over the greatest enemy of mankind that is western imperialism.
This is just sad to hear and i don’t think arguing on the internet is gonna bring is anywhere. I don’t understand where your US fantasy and obsession comes from, siting cases that are from the 50’ and not really related to your point. It sounds like desperate fearmongering by an authoritarian state to stay relevant in front of its population. Ironically, the aggressive actions of russia is what push EU countries away closer to the US as it doesnt leave us any other choice. Russia was a major trading partner and vital to european economies. Ukraine biggest allies after all are from eastern europe(ex russian colonies), the evil imperialist that wants to destroy russia doesnt seem that interested in the conflict as this thread is about. You can it how you want and replace revenge with justice but committing atrocities on your neighbor, is not a productive way for justice. Just shows some imperialistic bloodlust eastern european countries are wary off. Please dont forget that eastern europe are also people with their own minds and that the only thing we want is peace we would love to be closer to russia but its not the path your leaders are willing to go to. Instead creating divisions with whatever usa narrative they are pushing. Have a conflict with the us if thats what you want but please let us be and dont involve us in that.
I will mention gaza as it is so often used as an argument, but the evil controlled press puppet of the CIA is actually quite outraged by the actions of israel, followed by its population having more and more Europeans government taking an in increasingly harder stance, politics are slow but have to follow the heart of the population at some point. Dont forget that russians are the dominant ethnic group in israel since you love talking about historical points. We have our hands quite full with our issues here but seems like people cant stop to ask for our intervention abroad. I would like to remind that eu countries never vetoed anything, rather abstained and stayed out of the conflict as the world has shown us with ukraine that they dont want to intervene in foreign conflict.
Just a point i find facinating, Its quite cute how you describe rusky mir, just think for a second how do you think a average german citizen would have described lebensraum in their times? Try to mature the world is not as black and white as you wish it was. I would like to remind you that the russian leaders called ukraine as a non state that should be eradicated, which i find quite at odd with your ‘pacific description’
Biden frantically sends more aid to israel
It’s not his money I don’t he really care where they get wasted
It is a bad idea to trust and rely on Ameeica. Some Afgans learned this lesson in 2021, the same is happening to Ukraine now.
Many such cases!
Gaddafi’s is just sad. Such a terrible decision to give up their nuclear deterrence and trust western governments.
Nukes are why the DPRK hasn’t been invaded again, and why it hasn’t ended up Libya is now.
Sad, but true
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Gaddafi was a leader in the liberation struggle against the Global North’s imperialism.
It was Gaddafi who was sodomized with a bayonet. Wikipedia: Killing of Muammar Gaddafi
The NTC initially claimed Gaddafi died from injuries sustained in a firefight when loyalist forces attempted to free him, although a video of his last moments shows rebel fighters beating him and one of them sodomizing him with a bayonet before he was shot several times.
In typical US fashion, it fabricated atrocities as a pretext for regime change: 2011 Libyan rape allegations
Three women, loads of lies and the destruction of Libya
Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and Samantha Power were the three principal advocates of war against Libya in 2011, setting the North African nation on a free fall ever since. Demonstrations broke out in some Libyan cities against the government of late Muammar Gaddafi in February 2011, in what became known as the “Arab Spring” that engulfed the region. However, Libya’s promised spring turned into a destructive autumn during which Gaddafi was murdered on 20 October, 2011, and Libya was left anguishing in lawlessness, courtesy of the three women.
The US does this all the time; it’s still doing it. The blueprint of regime change operations
Fight for “democracy” /s
subjects
You mean insurgents funded by the west after having them give up their nuclear deterrence because it posed a major threat to capitalism/imperialism in the region.
Libya went from one of the poorest countries in the world to having the highest human development index in Africa by 2010 under the socialist government. Housing and healthcare were made a human right and youth literacy reached pretty much 100%.
Yes, I’ll have sympathy for the country that was basically extorted by the west through brutal sanctions into disarming itself so it could be invaded and destroyed, as any human should.
He made it better for Arabs, everyone else was treated horribly. But hey I guess being a dictator is fine as long as the people you like are being treated okay and fuck everyone else. How very Modi of you.
He made it better for Arabs, everyone else was treated horribly.
Who was everyone else?
But hey I guess being a dictator
Libya in Gaddafi’s time was more democratic than the United States has ever been. Libya: How To Kill a Nation
When Five Eyes governments and corporate media tell you that someone’s a “dictator,” they do it to manufacture consent for regime change.
[citation needed]
Ukraine rely on a lot more than just the USA. But what else can they do? It’s either that or they get annexed.
Their are a small country versus a world power.
The region doesn’t rely on the US, the post-2014 fascist government that doesn’t care about the wishes of eastern Ukrainians does.
There wasn’t a problem here until the US-backed coup in 2014 and subsequent killing of eastern Ukrainians and Crimeans (if you’re wondering why Crimeans overwhelmingly support Russia) by the coup gov for resisting, which also doesn’t respect the Minsk agreements to stay neutral.
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fascist
You mean Putin?
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ridiculed everywhere else
Just the anglosphere-dominated spaces like reddit that are full of US propaganda.
Feel free to point out what you disagree with.
Well, you spelled Ukraine correctly, I guess
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So… no argument?
You replying seems to indicate otherwise.
Loving the ableism btw
nice job america, now in addition to everything else, you’ve lost a war you weren’t even fighting in. Fuck yeah!
Are you implying Ukraine has lost the war? That’s just not true, they still hold territory that according to Putin is part of Russia
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“you have lost” is past tense
Yes, “you have lost” is present perfect and describes that the loss occurred at some unspecified point in time before. It can also describe a loss which effects can still be felt in the present.
The implication is that OP is convinced that Ukraine has no chance of holding their lines, as you correctly pointed out earlier.
Definately NOT proxy cannon fodder
Countries will get fed up of sending aid to Ukraine long before Russia decides to return its annexed territories. We’re already seeing signs of that.
If NATO isn’t willing to go in and force the Russians out themselves, I fail to see how this war is anything but a net gain for Russia. They will just sit back and let their “new territories” become more and more Russified.
To me, the aid is just a delaying tactic to allow Ukraine to continue fighting until the west can figure out a way to accept that Ukraine has lost its territories without losing face.
It’s a shit show, but I don’t share the optimism that a lot of people have for a Ukrainian victory. It’s like a game of chess, and it’s currently Ukraine/NATOs turn, because the Russians are already dug in.
Over 100k dead Russians isn’t really a “net victory” regardless of territory gained
Ukraine=Palestine. Noone will fight for ir and will get robbed by the powerful bandit, Israel (Rússia).
Except that US politicians pretend it’s the opposite
Ukraine=Palestine and Israel=Russia is peak Marvel brain.
Germany=Britain
Benin=Lichtenstein
Yakub = Jesus
What’s Marvel brain? I tried looking it up but just got a bunch of marvel characters with large heads.
Idealist, cartoonish, black & white, good vs. evil thinking. Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists thinking.
Imperial core governments and the corporate media present to us a cartoonish, Marvel Cinematic Universe version of the world that serves the capitalist class’ interests, particularly their imperialist interests. Inventing Reality and Manufacturing Consent laid this out almost 40 years ago.
Ukraine=good=democracy, Russia=bad=authoritarian. Russia’s invasion was unprovoked because history began on Feb. 24, 2022. Russia is doing genocide (bullshit), never mind the previous decade of Ukraine-backed neonazis genociding the people of the Donbas; or that, for 30 years, people from Noam Chomsky to Jeffrey Sachs to Henry Kissinger warned against breaking our promise not to expand NATO eastward toward Russia. Russia is an oligarchy, never mind Ukraine’s oligarchic coup government that the US installed a decade ago. Ukraine is a democracy, never mind that it has suspended opposition parties and cancelled elections.
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Ukraine is already losing and unless something crazy happens they will lose.
That’s why Congress doesn’t want to send more aid.
No reason to let the Russians capture more patriot batteries…
Republicans are good buddies with Putin. If Trump would have been in power, he would have been selling weapons for the Russians, then play along with the whole “Ukrainians are actually Russians” stuff of Putin.
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You could easily achive your goal by going back to reddit, there’s nothing wrong with it. Seems like federated international community hosted by enthusiasts is just not your cup of tea. Centralized platform which goes to IPO would be able to provide you with echo chamber that you seek for.
Can’t wait until this shit is over so that all the shit-for-brains boomers finally take down all their stupid flags.
Well that sucks.
It doesn’t suck. Well, it does for the west.
I thought that’s what Russians/Republicans were banking on?
Guessing none of the other nations are doing anything either
