Disinvestment into Python, Flutter, and Dart is a clear signal that those tools are unimportant to Google. I won’t be recommending that anyone use Dart or Flutter on new projects.
I won’t be recommending that anyone use Dart or Flutter on new projects.
You seem to think Google cares at all. Android has been languishing and Flutter is lightyears ahead. KMP is junk compared to what Flutter has accomplished with a fraction of the bells and whistles.
You seem to think Google cares at all.
Odd conclusion to draw. I’m simply not inclined to recommend tools that are not going to be supported by the organization that created them. Development ecosystems are important when planning a project.
What I mean to say is that Google isn’t invested in native android either. It’s been repeatedly strip mined by first-timers looking for a quick promotion and left to burn.
Things got so bad that Google gave up on native Views and created Jetpack Compose, which has been a source of many complaints related to performance.
In 2024 Flutter has instant hot-reload, and the “native” (but 100% bundled) solution still requires a complete reinstall on the device. In fact, Dart can compile to native code (or JIT) without an issue, yet Kotlin Native
is barely in GA in the new compilersupport has been lagging while the new compiler isn’t out of beta and is still poorly supported by tooling.Consider the absurdity: React Native is the only true native framework out of RN, Jetpack Compose, and Flutter. And all of this barely scratches the surface of the tooling problems that Flutter 99% avoids by allowing development on desktop, web or iOS simulator.
Flutter
looking at you, canonical.
I’m not sure how cononical is connected to this.
they pledged to adopt flutter heavily in ubuntu’s apps, in partnership with google. they even took like a couple cycles to port their entire installer and snap store to it.
Interesting. This wouldn’t be the first time that they pushed forward with tools that were later abandoned due to lack of uptake outside of the Ubuntu ecosystem if it comes to that.
they pledged, with google’s backing no less, to focus on it to develop ubuntu apps. they even spent a few of cycles working on porting their installer and snap store to it.
OOF
Sass won’t be too happy
Laying people off instead of offering to move them to the now-more-important projects has to be one of the dumbest management moves that tech companies repeatedly do. These are people already trained on all the policies and procedures and tooling and “culture” specific to your company.
It’s going to be more expensive to hire and train new people when the dumdums in upper management finally figure out the mistakes they made that got them to a point where they decided they need to cut jobs and projects, and the ramp-up time before you actually start seeing progress on those priorities is going to be seriously lengthened. Of course they won’t acknowledge it was their fault in the first place, and again the heads roll on the wrong end of the corporate ladder.
If I’m reading their CEOspeak right, their objective is to fire the very experienced people, that costs a lot of money, and replace them with people that costs less.
I never worked at Google, so I don’t know for sure, but it sounds like the Python team is important and that this will backfire. As the people that costs less will also be less skilled, and Python is an important piece for AI/ML research, where Google is already lagging behind. The AI people in Google will get lower quality help with Python, and Google will lag even further behind.
That what happens when the CEO is an MBA and not an engineer.
Engineers over index in their own ways, but I think you’re spot on with decoding the PR speak.
The Python team was very involved with the Python Software Foundation and was influencial with directing priorities for the Python programming language reference implementation (which is by far the most widely used implementation of Python). Google just gave up their say in how the language will evolve. Seems like an incredibly bad strategy. But then again, Google has been, from a financial perspective, nothing more than a digital classified ads platform for decades. If a smart MBA were running Google they’d start spinning off divisions into new IPOs and cashing in with dividends like other large conglomerates have done in the past when they have stopped inovating or actually commit to their projects long term.
Maybe we just need CEOs to be more receptive to developers’ wishes.
They are not stupid at all. Their interests are in conflict with the interests of tech workers and they are winning effortlessly, over and over again.
The big tech companies are all owned by the same people. If these layoffs cause google to lose market share to another company, it’s fine because they own that company too.
What matters is coordinating regular layoffs across the whole industry to reduce labour costs. It’s the same principle as a strike: if the whole industry does layoffs, workers gradually have to accept lower salaries. In other words, the employers are unionised and the employees are not.
This process will probably continue for the next 20 years, until tech workers have low salaries and no job security. It has happened to countless industries before, and I doubt we are special.
I’m sure the next big industries will be technology-focused, but that’s not the same as “tech”. They won’t involve people being paid $200k to write websites in ruby.
It’s going to be more expensive to hire and train new people when the dumdums in upper management finally figure out the mistakes
Unfortunately that’s not the case. Those who have been laid off are those paid high salaries to build up the foundation. Now that the foundation is already there, they future work won’t be as complex as before and need less training. So why would they still pay the very high salaries? They’ll just get rid of the used-to-be-important programmers and hire the can-be-hired-for-a-lot-less programmers from India. It’s sad, but that’s the reality.
They’re hiring replacements in Germany, not India.
have you seen the salaries in Germany? still much much cheaper than Bay Area
Yes. I was just giving accurate information, not making any sort of argument.
Now that the foundation is already there, they future work won’t be as complex as before and need less training.
LOL, LMAO even.
Yeah, at least give you argument so I can also laugh at myself too.
Anyway, take a look at this article that just came out just earlier, which means that by no chance it’s been referenced when I wtote my earlier comment. And do take note of the BOLD words.
The Core unit is responsible for building the technical foundation behind the company’s flagship products and for protecting users’ online safety, according to Google’s website. Core teams include key technical units from information technology, its Python developer team, technical infrastructure, security foundation, app platforms, core developers, and various engineering roles.
“As we’ve said, we’re responsibly investing in our company’s biggest priorities and the significant opportunities ahead,” said Google spokesperson Alex García-Kummert. “To best position us for these opportunities, throughout the second half of 2023 and into 2024, a number of our teams made changes to become more efficient and work better, remove layers, and align their resources to their biggest product priorities. Through this, we’re simplifying our structures to give employees more opportunity to work on our most innovative and important advances and our biggest company priorities, while reducing bureaucracy and layers”
There was this incredible management consultant in france in the 18th century. Name eludes me, but if he was still around Google could hire him and start finding some far more convincing efficiencies.
The guy was especially good at aligning resources to remove layers
Robespierre?
I am a manager at a big tech and I hate capitalism. CXOs really only care about profits, and thus everybody high-level proposes new enshittification strategies.
Can’t really make heads of tails of this. I thought they were really into AI and Python is a big part of that. Which other languages are they going to invest in? Rust for Chromium?
Python is in essence the interface for AI tools that are optimized with languages that are easier to get high performance results with.
They hired cheaper talent from elsewhere for python.
I spent thr last 10 minutes reading the flutter docs, and I have no fucking idea what it is, what language it is written in, or generally anything useful about it. I think we’ll be fine.
Also, Google’s contributions to Python are mostly obsolete. optparse was replaced by argparse which is .mostly replaced by click. Yapf was never successful and black has taken a commanding lead. Python will be just fine.
If you couldn’t figure out what flutter is in 10 minutes that reflects poorly on you much more than anything else.
Flutter is a UX/UI framework for Dart programming language. Dart is a statically typed (optionally dynamic possible), completely type safe, soundly null-safe compiled programming language. It can compile to JS to run on the web, or compile to x86_64 or Arm assembly to run on hardware.
Combining Dart, which is honestly an awesome but underrated language with Flutter which is a declarative UI framework, I have found a new love for app development. It’s very pleasant.
And now I get shot in the dick with this news…
I typed in “python flutter” into Google and clicked on the first link. The first pictures shows a bit of code and a simple window with two buttons. I go back to the code and skim it. It defines the buttons. How you cannot deduce from that, that this library makes UI says a lot about you.
I also think your assumption that click replaced argparse is wrong. Click heavily relies on decorators which makes separation of functional code and command line interface code either impossible or difficult. If you only care about your one program that is fine, but it does make your code not very reusable.Flutter has nothing to do with Python as it’s a JavaScript library, so if looks like we’re in the same boat.
Looks like my Lemmy-client of choice did some retrying when I had poor connection, sorry about that.
I think trying to go cheap on native apps was always kind of a fool’s errand, tbh. Cordova, Xamarin, React Native and so on - all pretty sub-par solutions leading to poor experience without actually materializing the desired savings.
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Anecdotally I mostly hear that the cross-platform code doesn’t work so you end up needing to write platform specific implementations of everything anyway. But in Flutter. And it is harder to hire good talent for.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ahead of Google’s annual I/O developer conference in May, the tech giant has laid off staff across key teams like Flutter, Dart, Python and others, according to reports from affected employees shared on social media.
“As we’ve said, we’re responsibly investing in our company’s biggest priorities and the significant opportunities ahead,” said Google spokesperson Alex García-Kummert.
“To best position us for these opportunities, throughout the second half of 2023 and into 2024, a number of our teams made changes to become more efficient and work better, remove layers, and align their resources to their biggest product priorities.
Through this, we’re simplifying our structures to give employees more opportunity to work on our most innovative and important advances and our biggest company priorities, while reducing bureaucracy and layers,” he added.
Meanwhile, others shared on Y Combinator’s Hacker News, where a Python team member detailed their specific duties on the technical front and noted that, for years, much of the work was done with fewer than 10 people.
WARN, or the California Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act, requires employers with more than 100 employees to provide 60-day notice in advance of layoffs.
The original article contains 700 words, the summary contains 191 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
FUCK
Google why do you do me like this
What idiot applies for a job at Google?
Someone who wants to have Google on their CV when they leave in 2 years. Generally works out.
