Man, I’m so glad this global warming thing is leftist propaganda or I’d really be freaking out right now.
Luckily, we can choose to reject reality and believe whatever makes us feel better.
I feel best believing the biosphere is gonna force humanity to “find out” for the last century of fuckin around with a recklessly unplanned terraform.
Love how the collective of humanity needs to find out because the richest few fucked around.
You can always find these people and make them find out. They are actively committing genocide against the human race.
But the rich are supplying a demand. And a ton of innovation wouldn’t be there without them.
Imagine thinking CEOs drive innovation lmao
Why does it seem like there are a ton more conservatives here on Lemmy than there were on Reddit?
Happy to have them here. I almost never agree with them, but not only is it good to have your opinion challenged (though often wearying to have to repeat yourself), it’s good for THEM to have their opinion challenged too. Maybe only 1/100 will change their opinion after being challenged and seeing that their opinion is very much in the minority, but that’s 1/100 more than if we were all chatting away in a safe space with no opposing views.
(and to be clear, no I don’t think shit like nazis, devout racists etc is an ‘opposing view’ that deserves any debate)
Idk. I’m on kbin and haven’t experienced that. Usually when I wish violent death on conservatives I get a ton of upvotes.
I mean, I think they’re definitely still in the minority. It seems like there’s a larger proportion of them here than on reddit. I see more of their opinions here. Maybe that’s just how the algo works here regarding upvotes & downvotes and how comments are displayed.
For every person that choose to leave reddit…
There’s 5-10 “conservatives” who were ip banned and dont have a choice between Reddit and Lemmy.
They are not getting down-voted into nothingness for refusing to tow the party line.
I appreciate the variety of opinions presented here. Plus (in my experience) the conversation has been civil.
Yeah. I hardcore disagree with conservatives as a libertarian socialist myself, but I always want to hear what people who disagree with me (and people who agree with me) are saying, and engage in civil conversation with people who actually believe what they say.
The problem for me comes when shills (people who don’t believe what they say but get paid to say it) come into the conversation, or when people use outright disingenuous arguments (usually strawmans).
But they kinda do. Imagine Samsung or Apple stopping innovation. Company goes bankrupt.
You think Tim Apple is coming up with their innovations? Lol
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No, but it takes a person to control a company. A Person to direct the goals of a company. So I guess Tim Apple is somewhat involved if there is innovation or not.
Oh brother
Man I am kinda sorry, that I invade your worldview.
But rich people don’t have all their money stored in a vault like Dagobert Duck. It’s all stocks.
And boy, if one of the companies make losses, then their money goes downhill. It’s volatile.
And due to immense concurrence in innovation in the tech sector, every investor has a huge interest in innovation.
And with many investment, the start of a company is ensured.
The current capitalism is the system that works best.
Especially the US capitalism is one hell of a driver in innovation. I live in Germany and many companies wouldn’t be possible here. Even though we have capitalism, it’s much softer than its US counterpart.
The downside of course is poverty for cheaper labour.
And that’s brutal, but it’s the reality we live in.
Though I wouldn’t want to live in the US without healthcare, on the counter side I wouldn’t want to start a company here in Europe.
You mean the innovation that’s destroying the planet? Ok bro.
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Holy shit please tell me this person is just trolling us. I refuse to believe this is a real take
Anytime someone points to the Saudis as an example to follow…probably don’t need to listen to anything else they say.
I am no troll. I believe that I see the world as it is. I guess so do you.
Doesn’t matter much though. No matter what we do. We will see who is right. Luckily time passes all by itself. For now.
This is a good example of the worst kind of pseudo intellectual bs that tricks the uninformed. It’s confidently wrong in so many different areas that I don’t even know where to start.
Maybe if you don’t know where to start means that you don’t know where I am actually wrong?
European style houses won’t save anyone from extreme heat
Europe has had plenty of fatal heatwaves in the past.
Saudi Arabia has ‘proven’ whatever it has proven through insane levels of draconian state intervention in everything, a lot of oil rents, and using imported slave labour.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/saudiarabia0708/5.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_workers_in_Saudi_Arabia?wprov=sfla1
Hardly a model for anyone to follow.
I don’t think you have been reading a single one of the articles. The first one already is a not so fitting response to m claim that European style houses are ore resilient against extreme weather events.
adapting to extreme weather events shouldn’t be too hard. Maybe start building European style housing.
European style house, 2021, Germany: https://piped.video/watch?v=Ork8a_qrw8s
A similar flood happened in 1804 in the same region. Exactly the same region.
The houses were placed in a strategically bad position.
And many had no cellars ( to reinforce the houses in the ground).
The worst kind of bootlicking.
Oh no, I was called a bootlicker and my ego will now collapse…
Are you sure it’s not the demand driving the demand? The rich are the supply-side of “supply and demand”.
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
The demand side of the economy is the consumer population. The consumers decide what they do and do not want to purchase, therefore driving demand.
“Infinite need” implies that infinite supply could exist, or that infinite growth is sustainable, both of which are not true. Infinite need also doesn’t exist.
I will argue that people (for example) needing clean water increases the demand for clean water. This is why companies like Nestle are profiteering off of selling bottled water, and why the CEO said that water should not be a human right.
Wait. But someone has to bottle the water, right? Or is nestle supposed to do it for free?
Furthermore they have to compete with tap water. So the value of bottled water can only be the water itself + bottle + energy used to fill bottle + interest because their “service” is not for free. There is a justified interest to make a profit from one’s efforts.
Ribbit
I give you that. Just a few were directly involved in innovation.
But the rich do quite successfully create the framework conditions for innovation and development. Mostly driven by profit, but a world based purely on goodwill fails at the first doubter, the first who does not want to participate. So capitalism is what we got. And so far it has proven to be more resilient than other systems.
Thanks to denial, I’m immortal!
Inspector 5 gave me his blessing!
How could he bring me into this world knowing I would die?
My uber driver said that global warming is actually true but have literally nothing about human influence.
Some years ago these persons were saying that global warming was a hoax, now that only the human influence is a hoax.
I always hated that argument from people.
Even if they’re right — which we all know they are not — it wouldn’t matter. Climate change is going to devastate human life if we do nothing. If, somehow, the source of the warming wasn’t human-caused, we’d still need to find a way to counteract it. It’s not our fault doesn’t prevent it from being our problem.
I had a guy tell me once that maybe climate change is just the Earth getting closer to the sun, and we should send an astronaut up to the Hubble telescope so they can look through it and measure the distance to the sun…
I’ve known this guy for over a decade, and it’s not that he’s stupid, he’s just completely ignorant about climate change and doesn’t put in any effort to learn about science.
Ahhh, yes. The conservative backpedalling.
It’s not happening. It’s happening but it’s all cyclical. It’s not cyclical this time but it’s not our fault. It’s our fault but global warming is good ackshually. Global warming is bad but there’s nothing we can do about it. We could do something about it but it’s too expensive/late. Maybe it’s not too expensive but THE CHINESE!
In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there’s nothing we can do.
Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it’s too late now.
The sad thing is we’re supposed to be in a ice age. The plant is further away from the sun about the same plane since the last ice age.
It’s crazy how often I find this fitting: The Four Stage Strategy. At least it gives me a smile now and then.
If you’re based in the UK, then all you can do is smile at the shit we have to deal with government-wise. If you don’t laugh, you’ll go mad, kinda thing.
That ‘Four Stage Strategy’ is horribly, horribly apt even today.
I’ve found a clever way to counter those folks is to say, “you might be right, and as the apex species it’s our moral obligation to seize control and protect the natural order of things for as long as we are able to slow the coming of hell on earth. Just like our right to shoot guns. Yee haw.”
Just like our right to shoot guns Sadly or happily this one doesn’t work in my country.
What I hear some acquaintances say is like “who cares, I’ll go to the beach, turn the AC on, what’s the big deal” .
As if the floods we had in Italy this year, or the wild fires, or the storms, or the draughts, or the Alps without snow, the glaciers disappeared, the sea turned green, the invasion of jellyfish weren’t connected.
Some people, most people, are just too fucking stupid.
Don’t forget crops. You can’t eat heat.
Ask them if they’ll be at the beach when it’s 55c out and all the crops have died.
To be fair, I think both sides blow it out of proportion and that can stifle discussion. It won’t be the “end of the world” where everyone will die, but we will have the “end of the world” as we know it.
I think one of the main points that need to be stressed to the kind of people in your example would be droughts.
Droughts will continue to get worse and will affect everyone. With a bad enough drought, we won’t be able to feed entire cities. And that’s when things really start to fall apart.
Yeah, people expect the earth to suddenly start cracking and spitting out hot lava or something.
No, it’s gonna be a slow, steady march towards the end, just as it always has been. Slow enough that we feel like we can put it off for another day.
Slow enough that one day we will look up from our phones, see the oceans of fire and shrug. Too late now, just switch on the AC and go back to scrolling.
As an example of this, the North America wildfires this year don’t really seem to be due to climate change… but people keep tying the ideas together.
The extreme weather swings and the droughts are bad enough. And it is guaranteed to get worse. No reason to stretch the truth.
Ribbit
If you don’t choose to believe in it, it can’t hurt you. That’s verified fact
Phew, that’s a load off my mind.
I used to be subbed to /r/collapse. I see world news is covering that for me.
Yhe they do think of everything
Has been in earnest since about 2014 by my watch
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Well, there’s !fte@sopuli.xyz
I think a lot of them also did come over here. No doubt about it, daily records are being broken but sharing without any context feels very on brand for that ole gang.
But I have been recycling like they asked me too. Who’s not doing their part? Oh wait …
Recycling metals is good, especially aluminum. Recycling glass? Not bad. Recycling plastic? That is literally something the oil industry forced by having their resin codes look almost exactly like the recycling symbol. People understandingly confused the resin codes to mean it was recyclable and flooded recycling centers with plastic. So instead of throwing it in the garbage and telling people plastic is not recyclable, they did what they could to recycle it. Sorting and cleaning was a pain in the ass and made it not worth it…in the US. China was happy to accept it for a couple decades until a few years ago. Now most recycling centers only accept plastic with a reason code of 1 or 2. But people do not really check the number on the symbol. A lot of it is 5 which is not recyclable in the vast majority of places but people still toss that into recycling because they think it has the recycling symbol on it. So recycling centers have to sort that shit out and send it to the landfill. It is a massive waste of resources that the oil companies are fine with since people think they are doing their part.
Recycling in general though was not supposed to be a fix for climate change. While recycling things like aluminum is significantly more energy efficient than mining, the bigger issue there is the mine itself.
Recycling plastic is more so a lie fed by the plastic manufacturers.
Recycling does not have any impact on climate change and was never suggested to have any impact on climate change
I think that was the joke…
Ah if it is I missed it and I feel appropriately goofy
So why have I been wasting my time?!? Captain planet is an asshole
If we cure climate change tomorrow and do nothing about garbage/sustainability in packaging, we all still die - its just more disgusting.
Captain Planet focuses on the entirety of the environment, not just climate. That’s why he whooshes bulldozers into the air in the Amazon.
We’re all dead no matter what. Climate change or not, humans don’t have a good ending.
Strong disagree.
Oh ok. What happens when the sun explodes? What happens when the universe collapses?
Go on keep strong disagreeing.
The universe “collapsing” has fallen largely out of favor as a theory. The sun isn’t going to explode, at all.
God damnit, now you’re gonna have me watching the enitre mini-saga again. You wanna be a tree? Cause if I had the power, you’d become a tree
I hate it here.
In general I feel like no one really takes a holistic view of this and everyone just points fingers. If indeed all the models are correct and human-produced CO2 is causing global warming, it’s not just “corporations” or “the rich” or just individuals, it’s the whole of the machine of humanity hacking away at the tree branch they’re sitting on, and we need to radically shift our energy production to eliminate greenhouse gas externalities, and ideally figure out, what’s it called, CO2 sequestration or whatever, to bring it back to normal.
And to the degree we can’t shift immediately, we shouldn’t just be burning fossil fuels towards ends we don’t even need, like dumb luxury goods or just driving in circles. It does come down to all of us as individuals - some of us have more power than others (yeah, more or less proportionally to wealth), but the buck has to stop somewhere.
Of course it is, but consumers generally don’t make the decisions about resource procurement and manufacturing. They only drive the demand. However, demand is also heavily shaped by both the cultural zeitgeist as well as marketing, which is in turn funded by corporations.
So in effect, it all comes down to corporations.
Well - corporations are funded by everyone, under the legal framework of the ostensibly democratic government, to which extent it’s not democratic, it’s at the mercy of the population choosing to continue perpetuating its existence. My point here is that the entire thing is just humanity working in a self-destructive way, and even when there are power imbalances in practice, real power - think of it like potential energy in physics - is truly democratic.
Corporations are certainly NOT democratic. If anything, their corporate hierarchy of management and ownership is… capitalist. It’s a top-down structure that concentrates wealth in the ha ds of a few to the detriment of the workers, always resulting in class conflict.
Democracies allow them to exist because it’s the only efficient way for civilians to organize profitable industry.
That’s…not what I wrote.
Which should be our government. But we’re too busy trying to prevent fascism and climate change denial as a whole to affect how much we’re doing about climate change.
We need bigger changes now. For instance, we need to take aggressive military action against anyone burning bunker fuel on the ocean, and that needs to happen soon.
Someone at work said “If climate change is real, then why don’t rich people sell their beach properties?”
And before you ask, yes they are a boomer.
But they actually are… Down in Miami, wealthy people are fleeing the beachfront property and buying up housing where all the poor people live, which also happens to be further from the beach. There have been a number of documentaries and news segments on this trend which you can easily find on YouTube.
Eh, reality has a liberal bias.
Oh it doesn’t matter. They’re just repeating the same old tired debunked points from other bigots that also think climate change is a scam. Nothing will ever convince these types of people.
“Sell their houses to who, Ben? Fucking Aquaman?”
(reference at 4m21s) (piped.video link)
Edit: fixed link
The phrasing made me think it was a Some More News reference and I’m pleasantly surprised to have something new to check out - thanks!
Considering here in Winnipeg, Canada, where it reaches -35C or even colder, it was pretty wild having weeks on end of +30C to even +39C temperatures, and so soon into our summer.
I never want to complain about the heat when we have snow for 7 months, but that was ridiculous.
Here in Montreal we have the hottest muggiest summers and the brutalest freezing cold winters. It makes me want to move to the maritimes.
I’d have to research if your weather is more extreme than ours or not.
I’ve yet to visit the Maritimes. It’s on my wishlist.
Hi Winnipeg. Come join us in !winnipeg@lemmy.ca – it’s in need of an infusion of complaints about the weather ;)
I already subscribed there. Thanks!
The upper Midwest really has some of the worst weather in North America. Get schlonged by freezing temps and snow for 6 months followed by heat for another 6 months.
I genuinely don’t understand, no disrespect intended but why do you remain there? Could you not just move south to a warmer climate? -39c just sounds uninhabitable.
It’s not that bad. You just put on more clothes
I will gladly, cheerfully, trade any 39c day for a -39c day. Cold is easily manageable with more / better clothes. Even when dressed for the heat, it still saps your energy like crazy and makes you feel like shit in the process.
I guess it’s down to the environment you grew up in and a bit of personal preference too. I love the cooler months of spring and autumn but both the heat in the summer and the very cold winter make me sluggish, I prefer the heat though over the cold; get the loungers out, some beers, bbq time
Moving south to a warmer climate usually means either significantly warmer summers or a significantly higher cost of living. Or both.
Yeah it sucks dealing with extreme cold occasionally and long winters, but it’s a lot better than living in the south where it’s unbearably hot and humid for 8 months of the year. And any place with a temperate climate such as the Pacific coast is prohibitively expensive.
We had one snow storm in Connecticut last year and could skate on the ponds for only a couple of days. I’m surprised that our tick season wasn’t as bad as it was.
You must have a crazy assortment of clothing fit for both of those two extremities :D
The planet isn’t going anywhere. We are!
- Carlin
Pack your shit, folks. We’re going away!
- Hottest 14 days ever recorded so far…
Like many people, I too came here to say this!
the a.c. broke in my apartment wish me luck guys
You can put damp towels in the freezer and wear them around your neck. My AC broke in August once and I lived on the third floor.
THANK YOU!! that’s such a good idea
f
As European where AC are not common: Close all windows and window shutters during the day. And don’t use the oven.
It’s wise to have a small toaster oven if you absolutely need to cook something. They preheat fast and obviously put off less heat than a full oven. I don’t really bother with the oven much these days as it’s getting over 110 here at the moment. Also cook after the sun sets
Thank fuck for that. Now if we can only turn off all the other a.c. as well, we’d have made a start!
Edit: this was a joke, but wow, you Americans are really defensive about your AC. I live in the UK and the rare times it gets very hot we are miserable because our building almost never have AC, and are built to retain heat. So I do see how much more comfortable it makes you.
Someone, who was trying to argue in favour of AC, said it uses 10% of all electricity globally. Thats insane! I guess we actually do need to turn it all off.
Well, you can’t so celebrating one poor guy’s AC going out in a heatwave is kind of a dick move, besides, it’s not AC in it of itself that is causing global warming, i’d bet that if we ran all AC on solar we’d still be fucked.
Also it’s businesses cooling (empty) offices that are the bulk of the % of AC watt hours used.
One guy said it makes up for 1.5% of all the energy we use! That’s huuuuge. I was joking originally but I’m pretty convinced now.
I’d say 1.5% is a fucking steal for the benefit it provides, if I could only have one modern convenience i’d take AC every fucking time
One guy said it makes up for 1.5% of all the energy we use! That’s huuuuge. I was joking originally but I’m pretty convinced now.
AC uses about 10% of all electricity globally. However, that’s electricity, not energy. If you include fossil fuels burned in engines in the energy equation, it drops to closer to 1.5%. There are bigger fish to fry.
Numbers: global energy production (all sources): ~650 EJ (exajoules). Total electricity consumption is ~23000 TWh – about 85 EJ.
1.5% of all energy used is huge. Actually insane. I was joking, but you’ve convinced me that we do actually need to turn all that off. As well as stop shipping so much, flying so much, burning so much oil, etc. But fucj me 10%of all electricity and 1.5% of all energy. Wow.
Do you know how many people literally die every summer because they don’t have AC (let alone simply suffer)? AC is becoming a growing necessity.
Besides, AC is pretty small game compared to the big polluters.
A lot of people will die because of climate change as well. A lot more, in fact.
Death by heatwave while lacking AC is one of the main ways that climate change will be killing people. A Texas grandmother died from heat last week (among a dozen more people in her town) being too afraid to turn on her air conditioner because of the expense.
When the choice is between running the AC while potentially contributing to the global energy consumption driving the climate change and turning the AC off and literally dying, you don’t need to be a hero.
Do you live outside? Under a liquid cooled tree? In a temperate zone? Never used electricity in your life?
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Your privilege is showing. Not everybody is lucky enough to live in paradise.
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Pair this with the Atlantic Ocean temperatures this year and you can anticipate an enormous, global shortage of food.
How does a city if 1 Million, or more, feed itself when all surrounding regions can’t grow food?
We’re fucked, so fucked.
We have the technology for indoor skyscraper style farming.
but not the political will nor legal ability to force landlords to allow it to happen.
I mean, in the scenario described where we literally can’t grow food in the surrounding land, it’s hard to say what the political landscape or legal institutions even looks like at that point.
Once people start going hungry and killing rich people then suddenly the rich will wake up and realize they have to do something, hopefully by then it’s not too late.
Mankind is roughly 9 meals between civilization and chaos.
Landlords are not the problem there. Zoning regulations are.
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Its less about affordability… and more about distribution models. Can you get stuff out to the suburbs in a way that makes sense? Do we need to even have the trational suburban model or can it be repurposed for agriculture? There are going to be a lot of people cramped into smaller spaces in the next century.
We’re a stones throw away from workers rising up anyway, so that’s a topic for another conversation.
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Do you have any sources? I doubt we would see similar economies of scale compared to current farming.
There would be challenges, but again, the scenario we are discussing is a world where we literally can’t grow food in the surrounding land.
You can read all about the concept here:
Global warming having a giant effect now.
My father in law is in complete denial. According to him they moved all the measurement equipment so that it favours “the Agenda” and gives wrong readings. He also claimes CO2 isnt a greenhouse gas. Sigh…
What makes people become that dumb?
Living in their own reality and being drip fed propaganda constantly
FoxNews
Acknowledging the truth means accepting that we’re fucked, that even if we weren’t individually responsible (maybe) we are still going to have to deal with the ramifications… And that’s scary. It’s far more comforting for there to be a secret cabal controlling everything and that really life is gonna be ok and you don’t have to change anything at all.
In their fairy tale, inaction may even be the moral choice, because any reaction would be playing right into the secret cabal’s evil plans.
Propoganda baybeeee
Decades of it
I’ve spent years working at a fossil-fuel-adjacent company, and I’ve noticed that even some intelligent people (consciously or unconsciously) avoid any information that that might make them think they may not being living a perfectly moral life, or information where the obvious solution goes against their “values” (pro-business, free market). They also grasp for any information that affirms their values and lifestyle, no matter how easily discredited the source.
It’s kinda worrying that it always seems to result in Nazi-like conspiracy theories like “the Agenda,” “Elites,” “groomers,” “cultural marxism,” etc.
It’s not being dumb, it’s being that stubborn.
If they hadn’t “picked a side” already, they would be very easy to convince.
Republicans
What like they moved the sensors closer to the sun?
This absolutely terrifies me, especially since so many people deny climate change. What is it going to be like in 5-10 years?
In the next 5-10 years, we may see mass migrations begin as a few locations become too hot to bear, and corrupt religious authorities seeking power will pin the more hostile climate on recent social changes rather than the actual immorality of corporate greed. This sets the stage for tensions over land and resources to escalate into wars and civil violence in later years.
There is no better time for action than now! Climate Changemakers is a low-commitment way to get involved, if you’re in America.
I recall that 5-6 years ago, temperatures around 30 Celsius were outrageous, unprecedented and unbearable here in Central Europe. Now, we’re seeing stuff like 40 degrees and we don’t even whine about it anymore.
What? We had way more than one 30°C day per Year in Germany, in the 90s. I remember these days quite fondly, because we’ve had a really great swimming bath.
What are you talking about?! In Poland it was quite usuall to get >30 deg for few weeks during summer. Actually last few years are colder than they were around 2010-2015 at least where I live. Climate is changing, that’s it. Calling it global warming is stupid.
Next year is going to be worse. And the year after that even more so. And it will continue like that for decades, probably centuries.
Even if I could tolerate dumbasses who don’t think CO2 emissions (and destruction of multiple natural CO2 sinks) are the driver of all this, it’s still infuriating that they don’t seem even concerned that the world is getting hotter and more deadly and are focused on some nonsense topics that no one in their right mind would give that much of a shit about.
It’s not just CO2, though. For example, SF6 is regulated under the Kyoto agreement and a much more potent greenhouse gas. SF6 is used extensively in high voltage electrical switchgear, simply to keep the size down by having busbars closer together. There’s so much of it out there that the small fraction that leaks is very significant. SF6 takes ~20 years to get from the ground and up into the upper atmosphere. Its use has been and continues to grow exponentially across the globe.
Very interesting! Also methane, of course. Should have shorthanded to GHG.
I feel like we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
And meanwhile a sizeable portion of the people is yelling that the zombie apocalypse is actually a good thing.
we’re watching zombies slowly lurching towards us, but there’s people pretending it’s totally normal and nothing to worry about.
If 2020 Gave Us Zombies Instead Of A Pandemic. It was pretty depressing in realizing how easy we could solve crises, but we can’t, since some politicians prefer talking points, and too many sheep happily follow. And measures against the pandemic were just a temporary inconvenience, while the climate crisis seems to be here to stay, growing stronger every day.
Sad but true. Politicians in general appear to be a spineless lot, appealing only to their corporate donors.
The most relevant part of the boiling frog experiment is the only frogs that stayed in the pot are the ones that had their brain removed prior to the experiment. This explains why climate denialists are all conservatives.
