Kyle Rittenhouse’s sister Faith is seeking $3,000 on a crowdfunding website in a bid to prevent the eviction of herself and her mother Wendy from their home, citing her “brother’s unwillingness to provide or contribute to our family.”

  • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    If the mom was capable of driving her child to another state

    She didn’t do that.

    It’s really sad how many people are still so completely ignorant of even the simplest facts of that case. Whatever your ideology declared was the truth, you just swallowed, facts and truth be damned.

    Pitiful.

    P.S. Self-defense isn’t murder.

    • forrgott@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      Putting yourself in harms way hardly justifies “self defense”.

      • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        If a black guy knowingly strolled through a KKK meeting, without saying or doing anything other than walking, and defended himself if one of them attacked him, would you argue he gave up the right to defend himself?

        That’s not how it works, goofball.

          • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            If a black guy went to a KKK meeting with a rifle

            I didn’t say he was armed, but fine, let’s have this hypothetical happen in an open carry state, same as the state where the Rittenhouse stuff happened. Meaning that, just like in Rittenhouse’s case, the fact that someone is openly armed is mundane and not a cause for concern in and of itself, at all.

            and sat there provoking the KKK members

            Rittenhouse provoked no one (the irony of implying he did is that he literally spent a good amount of time walking around shouting “medic! friendly!” while he was offering basic first aid to whoever wanted it, lol…pretty much the literal opposite of provocation), so your analogy becomes a false analogy, here.

            • I didn’t say he was armed

              Rittenhouse was, so that’s what my analogy is using too.

              Meaning that, just like in Rittenhouse’s case, the fact that someone is openly armed is mundane and not a cause for concern in and of itself, at all.

              Someone walking around openly armed is absolutely not mundane at all. If it’s police it’s a minor cause for concern, if it’s an untrained civilian who looks underage, it’s much greater cause for concern. If he’s walking around at a protest to supposedly “protect businesses”, he’s a clear and direct danger. What the law says doesn’t change what he can do with a weapon like that, and thus what threat he poses.

              Rittenhouse provoked no one

              You’re unaware of the basic facts of the case. Drone video clearly showed Rittenhouse pointing his weapon at people, repeatedly. This direct threat to others is what eventually provoked Rosenbaum into trying to take his gun off him. After Rittenhouse neutralised him by shooting his pelvis, he then decided to execute him on the spot, which was well beyond self-defense. He then shot two others who believed him to be an active shooter (and he demonstrated he was by killing one of them).

              You can’t expect to go to a protest, heavily armed, pointing your gun at people and expect people to be all okiedokie about that. It’s a clear provocation.

              • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Someone walking around openly armed is absolutely not mundane at all.

                In Wisconsin (because it’s legal), and particularly on that day, in that area, it is demonstrably/provably so that it was considered mundane, evidenced by the fact that although Rittenhouse was openly and visibly armed with that long rifle the entire time he was there, he received nary a second glance from anyone, much less an overtly negative response, neither when he showed up, nor when he was walking around the crowd offering water and medical assistance, for hours.

                Nobody gave a shit. You can’t look at all that video and act like he was this intimidating scary presence because he was armed, when it’s obvious ZERO people freaked out over it that day.

                Ironically, even his ATTACKERS didn’t give a shit, and charged at and chased him despite being, literally, SEVERELY outgunned.

                Drone video clearly showed Rittenhouse pointing his weapon at people, repeatedly.

                Link the full video (so fullest possible context can be seen), with timestamp(s)

                This direct threat to others is what eventually provoked Rosenbaum into trying to take his gun off him.

                Oh, please, this is nonsense (and frankly digusting that you’re trying to turn Rosenbaum of all people, into this heroic figure, considering all we know about him both on that day, and prior to it):

                "Ryan Balch, one of the armed men patrolling the streets of downtown Kenosha along with Rittenhouse, told the court that 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum had appeared “aggravated” that evening and had been seen shouting “fuck you” to various protesters in the crowd.

                “Every time I encountered Joseph Rosenbaum, he was hyper-aggressive and acting out in a violent manner,” Balch testified. “He was always having to be restrained by someone.”

                Another witness, Richie McGinniss, testified Thursday that Rosenbaum had chased Rittenhouse into the parking lot of a car dealership and lunged for Rittenhouse’s AR-15 rifle before the teenager opened fire.

                Though both Balch and McGinniss had been called to testify by the prosecution, they each emphasized that Rosenbaum had appeared to pose a threat to Rittenhouse.

                But Balch said that at one point that evening, prior to the shooting, Rosenbaum had clearly grown enraged with Balch, Rittenhouse, and a third armed member of their group.

                Balch testified that the other member of his group had at one point prevented Rosenbaum from lighting something on fire. Rosenbaum then began shouting at Balch and Rittenhouse when Balch tried to calm him down, according to Balch.

                “When I turned around, Rosenbaum was right there in front of my face, yelling and screaming,” Balch said. “I said, ‘Back up, chill, I don’t know what your problem is.’ He goes, ‘I catch any of you guys alone tonight, I’m going to fucking kill you.’”

                When Binger asked Balch to clarify that Rosenbaum’s remarks were directed at both Balch and Rittenhouse, Balch responded, “The defendant was there, so yes.”


                After Rittenhouse neutralised him by shooting his pelvis, he then decided to execute him on the spot, which was well beyond self-defense.

                Oh, he decided that, did he? You know that forensics confirmed Rosenbaum had his hand on the barrel when these shots were fired, don’t you? As if Rittenhouse shot once, hit Rosenbaum in the groin, and Rosenbaum INSTANTLY stopped attacking him and backed off, and then enough time passes such that it would even be possible for Rittenhouse to think ‘hm, he’s not a threat anymore, but you know what, I’ve decided I want to kill him’ and THEN shot him dead.

                What a pathetic straw grasp. Laughably absurd.

                He then shot two others who believed him to be an active shooter (and he demonstrated he was by killing one of them).

                I like how you left out that the first of the two only got shot AFTER nailing Rittenhouse in the head with a full swing of his skateboard, and that the third only got shot after HE tried to shoot Rittenhouse with his illegally-possessed (unlike Kyle’s rifle, ironic considering how many people still accuse him of having possessed it illegally) handgun, which was literally pointed at Rittenhouse’s head when Kyle pulled the trigger and shot his arm. The fact that Kyle’s reaction time was faster is the only reason Grosskreutz didn’t succeed in his attempted murder.

                Very interesting that you happened to omit every single fact that contradicts the narrative you’re trying so desperately to construct.

                Unfortunately for you and your precious narrative, I’m familiar with the facts, and see right through you.

                • when he was walking around the crowd offering water and medical assistance, for hours.

                  And he needed a rifle for that, did he? His stated purpose for being there was vigilantism. He literally said as such during the trial. He stated he was there to “protect property” and he brought a rifle to do so. Unless that was a water pistol, he was there intending to use lethal force.

                  Nobody gave a shit. You can’t look at all that video and act like he was this intimidating scary presence because he was armed, when it’s obvious ZERO people freaked out over it that day.

                  Yeah, except for the people that evidently did. And obviously you don’t need to immediately freak out if you see something not considered “mundane”.

                  digusting that you’re trying to turn Rosenbaum of all people, into this heroic figure

                  I’m literally not. Don’t put words into other people’s mouths. As stated by Rittenhouse himself, he came to Kenosha, armed, in order to at the very least intimidate the protestors/rioters (whatever tickles your fancy) there. Rosenbaum, who is not exactly a stable person, was not intimidated by these attempts. In a previous encounter, Rosenbaum threatened someone Rittenhouse was with at the time.

                  Instead of deescalating and leaving the scene, which Rittenhouse could have easily done, he decides to risk a confrontation and sticks around. When he runs into Rosenbaum again, something triggers Rosenbaum to chase him.

                  Oh, he decided that, did he? You know that forensics confirmed Rosenbaum had his hand on the barrel when these shots were fired, don’t you? As if Rittenhouse shot once, hit Rosenbaum in the groin, and Rosenbaum INSTANTLY stopped attacking him and backed off

                  Well the tooth fairy didn’t decide for him. I don’t need forensics to see on the video used in the trial that after being shot once, Rosenbaum falls over and graps the barrel briefly, after which Rittenhouse shoots and kills him. Oh, and this is after Rittenhouse decided to stop running, turn around and shoot him.

                  I like how you left out that the first of the two only got shot AFTER nailing Rittenhouse in the head with a full swing of his skateboard, and that the third only got shot after HE tried to shoot Rittenhouse

                  Some would call them heroic after they saw Rittenhouse kill someone and tried to neutralize the shooter.

                  The point is that Rittenhouse was uniquely able to prevent 2 deaths by simply not going on his vigilante-stint. He could have gone unarmed if he was only going to provide water and medical assistance, but that wasn’t why he went there. While the legality of his actions can be disputed, the morality of his actions is clear: what he did was deeply wrong, and he’s responsible for two people dead.

                  • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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                    6 months ago

                    Oh look, you completely ignored being pressed to support your ridiculous ‘he was pointing his gun at people for no reason repeatedly, before anyone attacked him’ claim. You prove you’re just another narrative-clinging ideologue who will throw as much bullshit at the wall as possible, hoping something sticks or isn’t challenged.

                    You’re a waste of time.

                    The point is that Rittenhouse was uniquely able to prevent 2 deaths by simply not going

                    Victim blaming 101, I sleep.

          • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            It was to steelman the other person’s argument, actually. My analogy involved a situation where it was MUCH more clear that the victim was deliberately entering known ‘hostile territory’ (black guy into a KKK meeting), than the Kenosha situation was (fact is, if it wasn’t for Rosenbaum going nuts and starting the domino effect, Rittenhouse would have gone home that day conflict-free–after all, he was there for hours BEFORE Rosenbaum freaked on him, with no incident at all). Race itself is not really a factor–‘person existing in a dangerous place’ is all I’m conveying. I didn’t “bring in race”.

    • stoly@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      It’s amazing how you can convince some people that you aren’t responsible for your actions when you totally were.

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      He showed up to a riot with a gun, he knew what was going to happen. He put himself in a situation where deadly force would just be on be on the line of justifed.

      Duty to retreat includes duty to not show up. It says so much that had the people he murdered not died and instead killed him they would be able to use the same defense he did. We are creating a last man standing justice system.

      A provokes B. They fight. B is murdered. A claims self-defense

      provokes B. They fight. A is murdered. B claims self-defense

      What does it say that the argument works both ways? No other crime operates this way.

      • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        It says so much that had the people he murdered not died and instead killed him they would be able to use the same defense he did.

        LMAO no they wouldn’t! They chased Rittenhouse down as he fled! No jury on Earth would consider what they did self-defense, you’re completely out of your mind.

        He showed up to a riot with a gun, he knew what was going to happen.

        ‘She was walking around with a skimpy outfit, she knew what was going to happen.’

        Victim blaming. Wisconsin is an open carry state.

        What does it say that the argument works both ways?

        Loaded question; it DOESN’T work both ways, especially not when there is only one aggressor.

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          LMAO no they wouldn’t! They chased Rittenhouse down as he fled! No jury on Earth would consider what they did self-defense, you’re completely out of your mind.

          Personal attacks. And of course they chased down the guy waving a gun around.

          She was walking around with a skimpy outfit, she knew what was going to happen.’

          False analogy. Rape is never justified, stopping a gunman is.

          Wisconsin is an open carry state.

          What might technically be lawful is not always sensible.

          Loaded question; it DOESN’T work both ways, especially not when there is only one aggressor.

          Showing up to a riot with a gun is aggressive by its nature. Just like if I stood with a gun in front of your house at all hours.

          • ObjectivityIncarnate@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago
            • He didn’t “wave a gun around”
            • attacking someone unprovoked just because they are armed, especially when legally so, is ALSO never justified
            • existing while armed is not intrinsically aggressive/provocative, no matter how much you insist it is. Rittenhouse did literally nothing that even remotely merited the murder attempted on him thrice that day.
            • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              I saw the video. He waved a gun around.

              Waving a gun around is always provoking.

              Waving a gun around is intrinsically aggressive and provocative, no matter how much you insist that it isn’t. Rittenhouse did literally everything wrong that merited the disarming attempt on him thrice that day.

        • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          it should be noted that afaik, nobody has died from BLM protestors so a “fear of dying” in the encounter should indicate a deeply troubled mind. So a competent prosecuter could probably have convinced a jury that Kyle’s fears were largely irrational and could have probably stuck manslaughter charges on him.

          After all, if you start marching around with a gun in front of your neighbor’s house then shoot him when he approaches you yelling to get off his sidewalk or whatever, its a bit insane, if not premeditated.