Don’t get me wrong. Apple removing audio jack was the biggest facepalm in smartphone history. And you can thank it for not being able to make an upgrade without sacrificing audio jack (and SD card too :/). But USB-C is getting standardized everywhere now (laptops, smartphones, etc.). What makes USB-C earphones not worth the switch?
Because it needs an extra dongle that isn’t free and most headphones use an ordinary audio jack.
Charging while listening.
And above all, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Exactly, most headphones that I like are wired with an ordinary audio jack. I don’t really feel inclined to get new headphones for a new phone, and a phone without an audio jack just makes things more difficult for me.
You don’t need new headphones though, just the usb-c adaptor, which you can leave permanently attached to the cable (if you only use them with your phone/laptop).
I don’t know, leaving the adapter awkwardly protruding permanently on my phone is just unsightly
Permanently attached to the end of the cable, not the phone.
Removed by mod
Charging while listening.
No problem with a proper USB C dongle.
Oh good, something else for me to lose.
I much prefer two ports.
I much prefer two ports.
Im not saying that a dedicated headphone jack wouldn’t be better, I’m just saying that dongles that support both exist.
The amount of strain put on the port will be insane if it’s in your pocket moving around, compared to the nice neat jack.
I just went with Bluetooth in the end
I didn’t see that as one of the included accessories though. I shouldn’t have to pay more to access basic functionality.
I shouldn’t have to pay more to access basic functionality.
I fully agree. I’m not defending getting rid of headphone jacks, I’m just saying that workarounds that allow charging exist and luckily the 10 or so Euro/Dollars is not that bad.
When I’m on the go I much prefer wireless, no cables to impede my movements and the quality loss gets nullified by ambient noise, I wouldn’t be able to enjoy Hi-fi audio anyway so I keep my headphones and DAC home where I have all the bandwidth in the world and the silence to enjoy the quality of the recordings and of my cans.
And above all, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
This is actually terrible logic and stifles innovation. The flip phone wasn’t broke…but now we have smart phones with screens.
Touchscreen fixes the problem of maximizing the screen on the device. How does removing a jack port fixes the audio problem?
Condenses the ports to one standard. Instead of an audio and a USB-C, you just have a USB-C. So now you can fit more/different stuff in the internals or streamline the device to make it slightly smaller or thinner. Far enough down the line when most everyone is on board, can remove support for it from the kernel, minimizing the code footprint, attack surface, and code maintenance.
Sure, it sucks now as we’re in the midst of it and people are resistant to change, but fast forward to when it’s universally adopted and accepted, it’ll be better.
But this is almost all false or just speculation.
Instead of having audio and usb-c, now you have usb-c port, usb-c headphone dongle, the finally audio port and usb-c port again. Unless you want to intentionally buy a usb-c exclusive set of headphones that won’t work with whatever next “revolutionary port technology” comes out.
As long as they still work, good headphones from 40 years ago are still good. Headphone tech has not significantly changed. Amps, DACs, etc have, but not the actual drivers.
As far as space goes, reasonable DAC components are getting smaller and smaller while phones tend to be getting larger as people want more screen space. The space savings on hardware here is not significant. Seriously go and look up sizes of the components needed for audio out.
As far as thinner goes, the width needed for a headphone jack is like 2mm more than what’s needed for a usb-c port, and there’s width needed for internal speakers either way. I’m also not sure how much thinner people want cell phones to be at this point. We’re pretty close to the point of sacrificing device drop resistance for size anyway (arguably we’ve passed that point with most people doubling the size of their phone with a protective case). Not to mention that the real thing preventing more thinness is the camera lenses now, as easily evidenced by the camera island bumps all phones have now.
Lastly, you can’t seriously be arguing that analog audio out represents any significant amount of attack surface kernel wise. Like holy shit man. Wow. Yes, technically every line of code is increased attack surface, but it’s a huge assumption that USB-C audio is in any way more secure or less surface.
Instead of having audio and usb-c, now you have usb-c port, usb-c headphone dongle, the finally audio port and usb-c port again. Unless you want to intentionally buy a usb-c exclusive set of headphones that won’t work with whatever next “revolutionary port technology” comes out.
Standards change as they get developed and better, sorry. I don’t see the “new revolutionary port technology” coming out in the next couple of decades, especially with the EU forcing USB-C on all (which is a good thing). USB-C is still fairly new and not adopted everywhere. And I’d bet money that most people don’t keep 40 year old headphones. Like, I said, sure it sucks now because we’re in the middle of it.
Yes, technically every line of code is increased attack surface, but it’s a huge assumption that USB-C audio is in any way more secure or less surface.
Except the USB-C is here to stay for a good bit…unless you’re proposing making it a power only connectors? Some secure devices do that, but why handicap the new port on mobile device that has limited space? So yes, removing the audio port code portion on a device with no audio port makes sense, when we get there.
Space is at a premium in phones as they are already fairly small and cramped. And why duplicate the ports (have two audio ports) simply because you don’t want to buy a dongle or a new headset to replace 40 year old devices that have drastically been improved?
You’re coming at this from the angle that the headphones are just going to be used with the phone. Why should the headphones I use for my desktop amp, digital drum set, music work, etc all change to support my phone?
I get for the vast majority of people they use headphones with their phones and that’s why this was allowed to happen, but in music the overwhelming majority of headphones use the standard jack and I can tell you there is no way in hell that is changing any time soon. People pay a lot of money for audio equipment and they’re not throwing it out to use the crappy DAC built into headphones.
Is this niche? Sure. But it’s a standard that has worked and will continue to work forever due to its simplicity. The analogue headphone jack will long outlive USB-C, mark my words.
Why should we condense the ports into 1? This is worse, not better. In fact some Chinese phones also have an IR blaster so you can control your TV and Aircon from the phone.
As for thinness is the phone, my Sony Xperia 10iii is 5.9" and very thin. Probably the smallest phone on the market and it has a headphone jack, SD card slot, and full IP68 waterproofing. Plus 3 lense camera. No need for massive stove top lenses on the back.
It can easily fit on any phone. The jack is tiny. It’s just a lie from the manufacturers to force you to buy expensive Bluetooth headphones.
My wired in ear headphones take up WAY less space in my pocket than bog bulky Bluetooth headphones with their charging case.
Just a friendly reminder to folks to keep it civil and to reserve downvotes for things that are inappropriate, not disagreement! 🙂
I downvoted it for spreading incorrect information and being incoherent. Happy?
There’s just exactly no upsides.
Among other things, a USB-C connector is less stable than a 3.5mm jack, and can twist the cable since the connector cannot spin.
Sure, it can do a lot of things, but there’s no reason to break an existing standard if the proposed successor is inherently worse.
I was looking for someone to mention the connection itself. To add to that the connector is a lot more delicate since it’s some
4024 pins vs 3 or 4.AND if my one USB-C port wears out from use, now I need a whole ass new phone now as opposed to “oh damn, well the phone still works without headphones, I’ll suffer for a bit until I can comfortably replace it.”
This is actually something I had once considered too. It’s not that they want to downgrade the port itself, it’s also that they want to downgrade the AMOUNT of it. I went looking for phones with two ports (I was also curious about using a phone as a data bus) and I could literally find none.
This is why when it comes time to decide on a compromise, Bluetooth (and its audio issues) wins out versus anything with ports. Because it’s a solution that doesn’t throw away options with it.
“maybe i should get a DAC for the time beeing”
The devices that you describe are incompatible with a standard that has been mature for 50 years.
The 3.5mm jack is everywhere, it is the standard. USB C is incredibly recent.
Put it this way, if you were to walk into a store and pick up any given electronic product with audio output, would you expect it to have an audio jack, or a USB C connector?
In your drawer full of random electric cables, how many have 3.5mm plugs in them vs usb a, micro, mini, or some propriety plug? And how many could you plug into a device and just…work?
So why do you accept devices that don’t have this standard?? It is beyond me.
The 3.5mm jack is everywhere, it is the standard.
Just got a 1981 Sony EQ off eBay, made in Japan, all that! How the hell would I ever adapt USB-C?! I’ve got fittings in the drawer for all things 1/8", didn’t even research what I needed to get this thing integrated with my stereo. Also, it has another gold standard, the 3/4" jack! I can cobble something together for free. Oh! I can also roll my own 1/8" jacks and wiring, certainly can’t “create” a USB-C connector.
OP is stuck thinking digital applications. 1/8" is perfect for analog use cases. USB-C is excellent for charging and data transfer. Very different use cases.
(Disclaimer: I’m no sort of audiophile. Just and old guy with vintage gear, going with what works.)
The fact that there is more than one “standard” for USB-C audio is enough to hate it.
Analog 3.5mm just works with everything. No dongles, no drivers, no “unsupported device”, no batteries.
It. Just. Works.
I am not an audiophile or anything but for these oems a headphone jack inclusion is probably pennys and wired is just superior sound, it’s madness.
That said I use Bluetooth headphones mostly myself but that doesn’t change the fact its inferior sound, something extra to charge and can add quite a bit of lag when playing games or other media.
Its a step backwards just to make a few pennys profit on a hundreds of pounds device. I think everyone should have the option to choose what they prefer.
USB C dongles have potential to be higher quality than your built in-jack if quality is the main concern
Now tell me how many of them actually are. This is just OEMs trying to save literal pennies across 100s of devices by externalizing the cost of a cheap DAC to their customers.
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As people have mentioned, it’s not about saving $, it’s about saving space inside the device which is highly valuable
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Lots of dongles are quite high quality. Apples even sounds good, and Moondrop makes a higher-end audiophile one that’s better than basically any built-in jack. There’s a pretty big market for good USB C dongles (less so for Lightning).
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if you care a lot about audio quality, you might know that the companies always tried to save $$ but using pretty mediocre DAC’s internally
And all of those dongles work even if you keep the headphones jack. Bluetooth headphones work if you keep the headphone jack.
No one is saying don’t have USB-C on the phone, or that it doesn’t do some things well, we’re saying don’t take away our options.
Again, my point 1. was the space the headphone jack takes up.
Apple is going as far as to remove the sim-card slot in iPhones lol
While it’s true that some space is saved, that’s just the messaging Apple wants to push. The real reason is to sell AirPods.
Apple also wanted to make non-removable batteries standard to make devices thinner. They did and it was a huge marketing success that had the tiny side effect of planned obsolescence (oopsie).
I’m not saying we can never progress, but what Apple says and what Apple does are often two completely different things. Their engineers will grind incredible hours to meet a silly goal that management gave them of making something 0.2mm thinner. They can keep a headphone jack or a sim slot if they actually wanted to. They don’t want to.
Well batteries and headphone jacks seem pretty different. You can add a dongle for like $10. Having Apple replace your battery is prob 10x that.
I do 1/2 agree about the AirPods thing but, I’m not convinced the internal space isn’t one of the primary reasons
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Could you recommend one for lightning?
I have the official Apple Lightning-Aux for my AKG K361 and Grado SR60x. It has definitely adequate audio, no complaints.
I use the Apple USB C-Aux I use for when I use any headphones with my gaming PC (usually Koss Portapros). Also definitely adequate.
My impression with either one is - except for physical durability concerns, if either adapter can power what you’re plugging into it they’re awesome. If you need more power or physical controls or weird connection formats that’s where they start to not be great.
I’ve heard good things about the Apple ones?
The Apple one isn’t very durable but the sound quality is just as good as built-in jacks were. Not as much selection for Lightning :/
There’s no reason to switch.
50 year old headphones are still basically fine except for the port changing.
*better
Uses more power and it creates thermal strain on a single point-of-failure port if you want to both charge and listen to music with a poxy dongle.
All this “innovation” does is create more e-waste.
At least on the Fairphone you can trivially swap out the USB-C port when it breaks. And using it for audio moves that from an if to a when, in particular on a phone designed to be used for at least 5 years.
But that’s okay, since you can swap it out. On any other phone: Fuck USB-C audio! The port is fragile enough as it is.
I’m still rocking my OG Note 8, granted this thing is a tank, I’ve never had to replace the port c charger. (But I also have an aux port) However! Any time i feel like m port is finally dying, it really just needs to be cleaned. Get a little toothpick an try cleaning before you ever replace, 9 times out of 10 it’s just got some gunk or something lodged in there.
I can’t charge my phone and listen to stuff at the same time, and my headphone jack headphones work with every device but a new phone. Don’t know why I would want to throw that convenience away all because Apple/every other manufacturer decided we should get rid of headphone jacks.
Lol I charge it either wirelessly or use a splitter. I have never had a problem using usbc or Bluetooth. I have a tablet with audio jack and I never use it. I also have connected my phone to a USB hub and used gaming headsets and other peripherals.
I always hear this argument, but seriously how often is this a problem?
I plug my phone in in the car and when I go to bed at night. Neither time of which I would be listening to music
you are aware that other people live different lives to you, and do things differently right? I listen to music to fall asleep, and I plug my phone into my car via the 3.5mm jack to listen to music. You ask how often it would be a problem? It would be a problem every single day
Many people listen to music and podcasts while driving cars.
Typically through the car speakers though
I can’t tell which side of the argument your response is supposed to fall on…
Yes, people typically listen through their car speakers. Good job. Gold star.
But not all cars have Bluetooth connectivity. There’s still a lot of people who drive vehicles that have to rely on 3.5mm connections (either directly, or with cassette or even CD adapters!). Or maybe their car supports Bluetooth audio, but they prefer the higher fidelity audio that a 3.5mm interface provides vs Bluetooth.Maybe I’m missing something here. But this response holds no water.
I don’t deny that there are a significant number of people that still use the 3.5mm jack when driving
But I believe that the majority of people do not.
Planes, overnight flights is a great example where this becomes a problem
But once again, how often is this a problem? I would say the majority of people are not in overnight flights that often
I’m daily commuting via train. There are USB chargers everywhere in the cars, so this is pretty significant. And don’t tell me to buy another wireless gadget I have to charge before I go - or some USB buds that won’t work with my other devices, since USB-C is just a plug, not a Standard.
And you need to carry the charging case, and a 2nd usb cable
I relax in my bed and listen to music or watch stuff, and I’d like to charge my phone while I’m close to the socket
When companies began to drop the audio jack I was annoyed, but I figured I could just buy a converter. Which would be great if there were a universal standard for connecting audio through a USB C. There isn’t. There aren’t even just two competing approaches. There are all kinds of different setups that sometimes vary even within a single brand.
I found multiple adapter that said it supported my phone brand. It didn’t work. I looked deeper and found some advice on adapters that would work with more recent phone. I bought one based on that and it worked, sort of. The audio quality was not great and it would occasionally just cut out for a second. My third try got me an adapter that work reliably, but the audio quality is still mediocre. My best headphones are all analog, but I have to use Bluetooth with my phone because it provides better audio.
The physical issues, particularly the connectors, guarantees that USB C will never work as well. The lack of standards for implementing it make finding compatible hardware a nightmare. And if you manage to get everything else figured out you end up with the kind of sound you can hear from an audio jack using a $5 set of earbuds. It provides no benefits to the user, only to the manufacturer.
I have multiple dozens of headphones that have a normal headphone plug.
I can charge my phone while I listen to headphones without carrying multiple adapters.
We can maybe talk once we get more than 1 USB c connector on a phone. Maybe.
Everyone’s favourite old headphones not having a USB cable is likely to be the main reason.
i dont even use my jack much, i just fucking hate the lack of options. if my headphones are dead i can still use them with the jack, and i can plug into older cars that only have the jack without shuffling around for a dongle
taking away my options is taking away my service with phones, still using my galaxy s9+ till it dies
I cant sleep without listening to podcasts & i charge the phone at night so this is one of the reasons why i was reluctant to upgrade my old phone.
When I inevitably had to upgrade I bought a USB C headphone/charging dongle for about €15. All good, I’d been worrying about nothing …Until it broke within a few months so I had to go without podcasts for a few nights whilst I waited for the replacements to arrive (might as well be prepared & buy a spare right?). Guess what? The first replacement lasted a only few months again. So far, a lack of headphone jack has cost me an extra €45 inside of about 6 months. Absolutely ridiculous
Buy the braided cable splitters they are invincible
One solution would be bluetooth receiver like the Sony sbh 5x. Or full on Bluetooth headphones.
- I don’t want to scramble round in the dark looking for a Bluetooth “bud” when it inevitably falls out in the night
- I don’t want to have to charge yet more stuff
- I don’t want full on Bluetooth headphones, I have Sony MDR7506 when I want quality audio & a set of small in ear Sennheiser for nighttime podcasts
The point is, the dongle is simply not a good solution
You can buy a small Bluetooth/3.5mm adapter. I have one for my amp when I want to play music through it. It also works with earphones. It’s about the size of a credit card but obviously thicker.
… and requires you to use Bluetooth headphones that you have to keep charged…
If they mean what I think they do… There are Bluetooth ->3.5 “adapters”… E.g. Bluetooth source (phone), analog output (headphones). Logitech has/had one and it works well.
No. It has a 3.5mm socket. You connect it to your phone via Bluetooth and plug in your headphones.
Then where does it get power from?
It’s rechargeable.
https://www.sony.de/store/product/sbh56ru-b/Bluetooth-Headset-mit-Lautsprecher-SBH56-Frei-sprechen-Gestochen-scharfe-Selfies that’s what I mean. It has it own dac and works as a middle man between phone (bluetooth) and wired headphones
because it’s already compatible with everything
i have a cheap pair of earphones in my pocket (which i’m prepared to lose). another by the door. a more expensive set of headphones upstairs. a speaker in the kitchen. and when i get in a friend’s car or go to their house, i can just plug my phone in and it works without the aggravation of having to pair to their speaker
tell me, oh “you can just buy a dongle” people, what am i supposed to do? buy one and accept that i’ll lose it all the time? buy 5 and keep one plugged into every 3.5mm i own and don’t own?
plus, y’know - takes slightly more battery, hassle to pair, can’t charge and use dongle, all the other obvious issues
Same here - a pair per jacket/hoodie, depending on the season
I need a special adapter to charge my phone simultaneously
Also, I can’t connect it without an adapter to my car, my headphones or my home cinema stereo
Did you actually find such an adapter for Android? Last time I checked I couldn’t. Still sticking with my trusty Note9 and wired headphones.
There are various types of dongles. If you want something compact for 3.5mm there are things like this: (greek site)
Cool thank you!
