As i always say its not the communists its the tankies. Communists want a different economic system but still agree on the equality of people and they can either want an autocratic or democratic system(from what i see simple communists usually want democracy). Then theres the tankies. They support full autocratic governments that are usually not even communitst like china and want a violent revolution. Often times they are even transphobic. Its the one group of people that annoys me more than nazis because they are basically nazis but on my side of the political compass. Also im socdem and have to explain to everyone that no that is not communism but tbf most people dont like communism because they teach its bad and not because they got to the conclusion with their own knowledge.
Academic question: are they really on your side of the political compass if they want less democracy and less trans rights?
Socialism means shared control of the factors of production… if the control isn’t shared, then de jure landlords are just replaced by de facto “landlords”, like in Animal Farm.
Yes but the political compass is a vast oversimplification of ones opionions. Think about it. How can nazism, a social ideology, be on the same axis as communism, an economical idiology. This is part of what im trying to point out in the original comment. Its interesting how you can be both a communist and a tankie but on the right side its basically just nazi nothing else. The left side is much more diverse as you bunch in basically everyone who isnt a nazi. The problem is the right often masquerades as something else and then slowly pulls people to nazism while on the left side we are always arguing with ourselves over smaller matters while we let the right eat up everything.
Personally I think ancaps are way different from Nazis, despite both being far right. Fascism is a merger of state and corporate power, which makes it at least partially an economic ideology.
on the contrary, communism is the final form of democracy.
capitalism != democracy because capital owners have a disproportionate amount of social, economic and political power, if not all. in a capitalist society the laws and police are there largely to protect and preserve capital and not you.
I didn’t say anything about capitalism being natural. I said the final stage, anarcho-syndicalism, is probably unachievable. And no, human nature is not whatever we do with it. You will not just make things like jealousy, violent tendencies, the need to be controlled, and people fearing those different from them magically disappear. There will be people like that regardless of how you wish to remake the world unless you find a way to genetically engineer it all out of us. Because all of those things go back to our primate roots.
To quote you: “You will not just make things like jealousy, violent tendencies, the need to be controlled, and people fearing those different from them magically disappear.”
Please point to the words ‘violent mental illness’ in your original post. Now take your yellow highlighter pen and color it on your screen. Actually, use a Sharpie - what the hell. Maybe next time you’ll see it and remember not to speak out of turn.
If you mean to say that ‘violent tendencies’ is necessarily equivalent to ‘violent mental illness’, I would counter that they are two different things. I would say that people in the armed forces have violent tendencies. Police officers have violent tendencies. But violent mental illness is a completely different thing. Violent mental illness implies that the violence is not a rational response to the situation at hand.
So, sorry I took away your little 'Gotcha!" moment.
i didn’t mean to imply you said capitalism is natural. i meant there’s nothing natural about it yet the entire world revolves around it and has been for quite a while. if you put a system in place human nature is irrelevant. murder is “natural”. we have laws against it. anarchism shouldn’t be just total chaos, it just removes unnecessary hierarchies.
things like jealousy and violence are usually linked to economic and social hardship, and in a fair economic and free social system it should either go away or be the result of psychological problems which should have remedies in an anarchist system as well.
Communism is just a desire/plan for having democratic control over the economic sphere as well as the political sphere. The authoritarian stuff is just some people taking a more rapid/paternalistic approach to achieving it.
As i always say its not the communists its the tankies. Communists want a different economic system but still agree on the equality of people and they can either want an autocratic or democratic system(from what i see simple communists usually want democracy). Then theres the tankies. They support full autocratic governments that are usually not even communitst like china and want a violent revolution. Often times they are even transphobic. Its the one group of people that annoys me more than nazis because they are basically nazis but on my side of the political compass. Also im socdem and have to explain to everyone that no that is not communism but tbf most people dont like communism because they teach its bad and not because they got to the conclusion with their own knowledge.
They like to be called tankies. It makes them feel powerful and vanguardy.
Just call them red fash. More accurate.
The real fascists are the ones who put fascists in jail instead of in charge of nato
Academic question: are they really on your side of the political compass if they want less democracy and less trans rights?
Socialism means shared control of the factors of production… if the control isn’t shared, then de jure landlords are just replaced by de facto “landlords”, like in Animal Farm.
Please stop talking about there being “a political compass” for crying out loud!
Ok then same question but without “of the political compass”
Yes but the political compass is a vast oversimplification of ones opionions. Think about it. How can nazism, a social ideology, be on the same axis as communism, an economical idiology. This is part of what im trying to point out in the original comment. Its interesting how you can be both a communist and a tankie but on the right side its basically just nazi nothing else. The left side is much more diverse as you bunch in basically everyone who isnt a nazi. The problem is the right often masquerades as something else and then slowly pulls people to nazism while on the left side we are always arguing with ourselves over smaller matters while we let the right eat up everything.
Personally I think ancaps are way different from Nazis, despite both being far right. Fascism is a merger of state and corporate power, which makes it at least partially an economic ideology.
Does anybody else find it interesting that the name Nazi referred to national socialists? Now apply that to this discussion.
Communism != Democracy.
You are maybe thinking of socio democracy.
For the tankies, spot on though.
Edit: what the hell people, communism is power to the people through revolution, there’s no fucking democracy in it.
Democracy is democracy, not communism smh.
Edit: In a democratic way I guess, all my comments were removed. Lots of commie bots here lol
on the contrary, communism is the final form of democracy.
capitalism != democracy because capital owners have a disproportionate amount of social, economic and political power, if not all. in a capitalist society the laws and police are there largely to protect and preserve capital and not you.
Well, I mean, we are capital in a sense…
I would suggest that the final form would be anarcho-syndicalism.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism
I also think our basic human natures make such cooperative systems unlikely on any large scale.
I’m using communism as a bit of a catch-all term. the specifics are not my concern so long as the people hold the power.
and i disagree with your statement there. human nature is whatever we do with it. there’s nothing natural about capitalism.
I didn’t say anything about capitalism being natural. I said the final stage, anarcho-syndicalism, is probably unachievable. And no, human nature is not whatever we do with it. You will not just make things like jealousy, violent tendencies, the need to be controlled, and people fearing those different from them magically disappear. There will be people like that regardless of how you wish to remake the world unless you find a way to genetically engineer it all out of us. Because all of those things go back to our primate roots.
Education?
How do you educate away violent mental illness?
To quote you: “You will not just make things like jealousy, violent tendencies, the need to be controlled, and people fearing those different from them magically disappear.”
Please point to the words ‘violent mental illness’ in your original post. Now take your yellow highlighter pen and color it on your screen. Actually, use a Sharpie - what the hell. Maybe next time you’ll see it and remember not to speak out of turn.
If you mean to say that ‘violent tendencies’ is necessarily equivalent to ‘violent mental illness’, I would counter that they are two different things. I would say that people in the armed forces have violent tendencies. Police officers have violent tendencies. But violent mental illness is a completely different thing. Violent mental illness implies that the violence is not a rational response to the situation at hand.
So, sorry I took away your little 'Gotcha!" moment.
i didn’t mean to imply you said capitalism is natural. i meant there’s nothing natural about it yet the entire world revolves around it and has been for quite a while. if you put a system in place human nature is irrelevant. murder is “natural”. we have laws against it. anarchism shouldn’t be just total chaos, it just removes unnecessary hierarchies.
things like jealousy and violence are usually linked to economic and social hardship, and in a fair economic and free social system it should either go away or be the result of psychological problems which should have remedies in an anarchist system as well.
Psychological problems only have humane remedies in such a system if the person with the problem agrees to the remedy. What if they don’t?
i don’t agree. if you’re an aggressor, it’s not inhumane to require you to stop. a free society doesn’t mean you’re free to hurt people.
However, revolution is a form of democracy. Direct action by the People.
Communism is just a desire/plan for having democratic control over the economic sphere as well as the political sphere. The authoritarian stuff is just some people taking a more rapid/paternalistic approach to achieving it.
This thread is just getting better.
Communism is not authoritarian, you’re mixing up dictatorships calling themselves communists with communism.
Words are important.