President Joe Biden on Friday ordered a historic change to the Uniform Code of Military Justice by transferring key decision-making authorities outside the military chain of command in cases of sexual assault, domestic violence, child abuse, murder and other serious crimes.
It was in the chain of command before? Wow gee I wonder how that could possibly go wrong!
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Why the fuck are these cases even handled by the military and not the regular criminal and civil courts?
Playing advocate, but that’s why UCMJ exists, at all. They should prosecute all crimes under UCMJ, or none. It doesn’t make much sense to only do certain crimes under civilian courts.
The UCMJ is also harsher than civilian courts when prosecuted appropriately. It has specific statues related to military-type crimes like duty abandonment and not following orders.
You don’t want to go to military jail, that’s for sure.
I mean, if UCMJ doesn’t consider prosecuting rape to be worth their time, it’s good that they’ve been relieved of that duty. Solders endure enough trauma, getting raped by those they serve with and under shouldn’t be par for the course.
The civilian justice system is absolutely not better at executing justice and is arguably worse on many ways when comparing similar cases. At least the rape kits get actually tested and processed in the military.
I wonder if you realize you’re commenting on a reply of someone telling a story about how one wasnt even investigated and then the rapist was promoted after doing it again.
There’s plenty to criticize in our civilian justice system, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t plenty to criticize in our military justice system. This is one of those things, the military is notoriously bad at handling sexual assault cases.
I was commenting on if it is worth their time. I find it to be a wholely unjustified statement given the fact that they actually conduct justice unlike civilian juridictions. If it wasn’t worth their time, they wouldn’t be addressing it.
Because the military has been fighting it for years. I remember having a SHARP class where the instructor was telling us that we didn’t want this, that civilians shouldn’t get involved in military matters and some other bullshit I can’t recall.
I was too young, dumb, and loyal to a fault to understand what was being said.
Supposedly to hold them to a higher standard, but like with police internal affairs it is just a way to deflect attention that would make the system look bad.
Just to spell it out:
Promotions are based on performance. After a few promotions, you have people that report to you. This means their performance is your performance. So the CoC properly handling rape allegations is against their own self interest.
There’s a documentary called the invisible war that covers this topic in excruciating detail.
Did I rape my subordinates?
Let me check…
Nope, I found no wrongdoing.
Here that, gang? Now stay in line.
Ahh good. The Catholic Church model of reporting and punishment doesn’t work so well
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I heard Pope Francis was changing that, cause yeaaaah…
Having it reported through Confession which by doctrine cannot be shared or punished, not really working out for anyone.
Works out great for the rapists
oh oh!!! now to the police next please!
Time for the floodgates to open.
Till the next repub pres ovrrturns this?
Regardless, hope this sticks.
Maybe. But all the reversals are politically motivated so depends how much their base will get hard on reversing it. I’m sure there are other juicier targets for them to get through first. Unless it’s Trump. Trump seems to be more interested in the appearance of money and power.
Can someone explain the change to me? I do not understand how it was done before, why that was bad, and how this is different and better. (Things I probably would have included in the article, had I written it)
Historically, these investigations have been handled by the higher-ups in the chain of command. Say one soldier raped another and the victim reported it. Their mutual boss and that boss’s bosses would be responsible for any investigation and discipline.
They have the same negative incentive to provide thorough investigation and justice as college campus police do - because in the end it makes them look bad at their jobs and makes the institution that signs their paychecks look bad. So they just don’t. Often victims are ignored or worse, disciplined themselves.
This change will provide a third party not involved in the chain of command for reporting and investigation of sexual assault allegations.
Ok that definitely gives me some context. Thanks!
But wouldn’t them handling it properly, which is part of their job, make them look good at their jobs? ~Strawberry
No because that means admitting that it happened in the first place. It’s a huge problem with reporting. Remember “there’d be less Covid if we just stopped testing for it?” Same problem.
Investigating and prosecuting a rape means admitting that rape happens in your unit. Punishing victims to keep them quiet allows the bosses to continue pretending like it never happens
I’m still confused though, they know handling reports is part of their job. How would doing that part of their job well not make them look good at their job? ~Strawberry
They’re in the position of authority and there is a chain of command, soldiers are trained from the very beginning to obey the chain of command without questions.
To climb the ladder or gain more power, they have to look good. They’re not going to get promoted if their records have any “negatives”.
Who is going to verify the reports? Their bosses, which means they also have the same incentives to only want good stuff, in order for themselves to get any considerations for promotions.
When their boss goes up, the boss under them will likely get promoted too.
What the boss said, goes. There are usually far more consequences toward the victims and whistleblowers than the actual authorities.
That’s why there should be independent review process where these folks have no incentive to have good reports.
I don’t get it, why aren’t “holding sex offenders accountable” and all of the ethical and moral concerns enough of an incentive for those along the chain of command? ~Strawberry
What happens if the boss is the rapist?
Adding to @Chetzemoka@kbin.social comment: The military has a peculiar concept for responsibility in command, such that a senior officer or even NCO could have thier career totally ruined for investigating a rape. Not for other crimes, mind you, but some arcane language held that they could be held culpable for not having prevented the attack. Biden has rather firmly corrected that error.
Good addendum, I appreciate it!
I gotta say, I had zero expectation of anything from Biden, but he has definitely delivered a few pretty good somethings, and this looks like another one. I hope they have a great day today wherever the Bidens are hanging out.
I need some good news today and this was it. Solid work. And quick too.
Kinda surprised it took this long.
I’ve heard it said that women in the military get assaulted so often they’re basically the state’s own unwilling prostitutes.
If this only affects prosecution of crimes inside of the military that is already a great step but what I really wonder about is if it will also affect prosecution of war crimes committed by US military. Could someone elaborate please?
He said he didn’t “want to bore you with detail here,” but that basically,
“I know it may not sound like much,” Kirby said
The headline grabbed my support. This lines cooled my excitement. Thoughts from others? I feel like maybe the headline isn’t as much of a grand slam when I see this kind of waffling.
Saying “key decision-making authorities” sounds like exactly that: key positions. Moving key existing positions out of conflict of interest.
To finish your quote:
He said he didn’t “want to bore you with detail here,” but that basically, “this change required a completely different shift in the way these crimes are investigated and prosecuted by taking them outside the chain of command, which already had existing protocols in place in existing judicial system.”
That really explains it, I don’t know why you cut it off.
“I know it may not sound like much,” Kirby said, “but it’s a big change to the way the military did it.”
Why did you cut these off where you did?
Editing quotes like he’s Alex Jones.
I think my brain panicked when I saw the start of that first sentence and went into scan mode. Good reminder to read to completion before voicing an opinion. Thanks!
That’s the kind of vibe I get from most of the Biden administration’s actions. They make for great lists of actions to show that they’re doing something, but in practice how effective is it really?
Did you read the article or just the comment about the headline? OP doesn’t appear to have read the article.
So instead of following the chain of command we’ll just skip straight to the guy who dismisses the charges. Finally some efficiency around here!
Is it still cool and edgy to be fatalistic? I think I missed the memo.
