• aesthelete@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    The fact that electron both exists and is one of the most popular cross-platform development frameworks tells you everything you need to know about the current potato’d state of software development.

    • boonhet@lemm.ee
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      5 days ago

      The underlying issue is that nobody wants to develop using any of the available cross-platform toolkits that you can compile into native binaries without an entire browser attached. You could use Qt or GTK to build a cross-platform application. But if you use Electron, you can just run the same application on the browser AND as a standalone application.

      Me? I’m considering developing my next application in Qt out of all things because it does actually have web support via WASM and I want to learn C++ and gain some Qt experience. Good idea? Probably not.

      • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        I have developed personalized tools as part of my job and I chose qt to write them in partially because if a company I work for would ever try to commercialize them, they’d have to either buy qt licenses or open source them.

        I cheat a bit though because I use qt through python.

    • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      It’s like so many programmers never evolve past the “playing around with web dev stuff” days. The fact that JavaScript is one of the most used languages is appalling.

      The whole 1+1 = 11 meme made me laugh and then avoid JavaScript whenever possible, but I wonder if many others saw it and thought, “now I’ve gained more experience in JavaScript!”

      • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        I will also never understand how JavaScript development has gotten so complicated with seemingly zero benefits. It takes minutes to do a “frontend build” and the output grows larger all of the time. I bumped into some Angular crap that was hundreds of megabytes somehow, and still AJAX fetched the same info 4x on page load because the “MVCC” or whatever it’s called didn’t even buy them the abstraction of using the same values multiple times on one page…

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          Yeah it’s ridiculous with every small app needing to be packaged with a full DOM and maybe even an http server for all I know and what should have been a few kb ends up being 1000x that or more.

    • HStone32@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      You know, I’ve always loved C and doing my own memory management. I love learning optimization techniques and applying them.

      But you know what? Everybody around me keeps saying I’m being silly. They keep telling me I won’t find any jobs like that. They say I should just swallow my juvenile preferences and go with what’s popular, chasing trends for the entire rest of my career.

      I don’t think you can blame people for trending away from quality software. Its clearly against the grain.

      • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        You know, I’ve always loved C and doing my own memory management. I love learning optimization techniques and applying them.

        That’s awesome, and honestly who knows what you’ll come up with if you’re given time to follow your passion there. Decades ago SCM was done through CVS and SVN and other pieces of garbage until Linus came out with Git which a main reason that it is so good IMO is its speed. Google Chrome arrived on the scene in a lot of the same way (of course now it’s as bloated a cow as any other browser, but at the time it was faster than anything available).

        I don’t think you can blame people for trending away from quality software. Its clearly against the grain.

        No definitely not. Electron is basically a creation of idiot middle management who insist that the web app and the app app be the same exact thing and be developed by the same group of understaffed, underpaid, underappreciated developers. So they worked out a framework to make it so they could change something in one place and have it reflected everywhere.

        But it’s still as potato as it gets.

    • joel_feila@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Back in the very early 2000s my dad went back to college. There he learne c++ but he also leatned that a great programer makes the program work ans keeps it small. Even bavk his teacher was complianing about newer programs taking up more and more ram.

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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    6 days ago

    Apple: Enough!

    But you’ll have to buy a whole new laptop when it turns out that was a lie.

  • QuizzaciousOtter@lemm.ee
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    6 days ago

    I have no idea how people use so much RAM. I use a 16 GB machine for work and it runs perfectly. For the majority of the time I’m well below 8GB. And I do use Electron apps.

    Of course, I’m aware of the possible uses demanding more than 16 GB but I can’t believe this would be the case for a majority of the people.

    • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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      6 days ago

      The people who installed toolbars until half their screen was full are still around. Just now they keep 100 tabs open instead

    • skulkingaround@sh.itjust.works
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      5 days ago

      With just a web browser, teams, and visual studio open my work machine sits at 95% usage of 16gb. Half the time my compiles can’t even finish without getting axed by the oom killer. SSMS is a hog too, I often have to close half my stuff to get to work right.

      Supposed to be getting an upgrade but my company is taking their sweet time.

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      I keep tabs open just in case I need it later, definitely faster to try to find right tab across 4 windows with 20 tabs each than just opening the site when I need it again

      • QuizzaciousOtter@lemm.ee
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        6 days ago

        Yeah, but those shouldn’t really influence memory usage too much unless actively used, right? I’m pretty sure browsers unload unused tabs from memory.

        I myself sometimes use quite a lot of tabs, although I have to admit it’s definitely not close to 80 tabs open at all times.

        • RGB@lemmy.today
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          6 days ago

          Some bad browsers don’t have automatic tab hibernation and you gotta install extensions for it.

  • Mwa@lemm.ee
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    5 days ago

    I remember all the windows users saying 16gb of ram is enough

    • loo@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      16 is still enough for me? I currently play RDR2 on high settings and QHD on arch linux and I always have minimum of 3 GB to spare

  • _stranger_@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    I think someone needs to update that old “if programming languages were weapons”. JavaScript is a cursed hammer.

  • oktoberpaard@feddit.nl
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    6 days ago

    The only time I can remember 16 GB not being sufficient for me is when I tried to run an LLM that required a tad more than 11 GB and I had just under 11 GB of memory available due to the other applications that were running.

    I guess my usage is relatively lightweight. A browser with a maximum of about 100 open tabs, a terminal, a couple of other applications (some of them electron based) and sometimes a VM that I allocate maybe 4 GB to or something. And the occasional Age of Empires II DE, which even runs fine on my other laptop from 2016 with 16 GB of RAM in it. I still ordered 32 GB so I can play around with local LLMs a bit more.

    • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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      6 days ago

      Yeah, but if you’re interested in running an LLM faster than 1 token per minute, RAM won’t matter. You’ll need as much VRAM as you can get.

      • oktoberpaard@feddit.nl
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        6 days ago

        Sure, but I’m just playing around with small quantized models on my laptop with integrated graphics and the RAM was insanely cheap. It just interests me what LLMs are capable of that can be run on such hardware. For example, llama 3.2 3B only needs about 3.5 GB of RAM, runs at about 10 tokens per second and while it’s in no way comparable to the LLMs that I use for my day to day tasks, it doesn’t seem to be that bad. Llama 3.1 8B runs at about half that speed, which is a bit slow, but still bearable. Anything bigger than that is too slow to be useful, but still interesting to try for comparison.

        I’ve got an old desktop with a pretty decent GPU in it with 24 GB of VRAM, but it’s collecting dust. It’s noisy and power hungry (older generation dual socket Intel Xeon) and still incapable of running large LLMs without additional GPUs. Even if it were capable, I wouldn’t want it to be turned on all the time due to the noise and heat in my home office, so I’ve not even tried running anything on it yet.

      • 7eter@feddit.org
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        5 days ago

        Codium or VScode and Signal are not available as Browser Apps afaik. And for Spotify - I rarely use that - but when I do it’s nice to have the songs downloaded wich only exists in the Proton APP Version.

        • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          There’s an online version of VS Code: vscode.dev (not sure if that’s official, though)

          Edit: Oh, well… it cannot open and edit local files, making it useless at least for me.