OK, its just a deer, but the future is clear. These things are going to start kill people left and right.

How many kids is Elon going to kill before we shut him down? Whats the number of children we’re going to allow Elon to murder every year?

  • Hubi@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    206
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 months ago

    The poster, who pays Tesla CEO Elon Musk for a subscription to the increasingly far-right social media site, claimed that the FSD software “works awesome” and that a deer in the road is an “edge case.” One might argue that edge cases are actually very important parts of any claimed autonomy suite, given how drivers check out when they feel the car is doing the work, but this owner remains “insanely grateful” to Tesla regardless.

    How are these people always such pathetic suckers.

    • teft@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      128
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      I grew up in Maine. Deer in the road isn’t an edge case there. It’s more like a nightly occurrence.

      • snooggums@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        47
        ·
        2 months ago

        Same in Kansas. Was in a car that hit one in the 80s and see them often enough that I had to avoid one that was crossing a busy interstste highway last week.

        Deer are the opposite of an edge case in the majority of the US.

        • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          It’s no different in Southern Ontario where I live. Saw a semi truck plow into one, it really wasn’t pretty. Another left a huge dent on my mom’s car when she hit one driving at night.

          • TheLowestStone@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            I grew up in upstate NY so I’m no stranger to deer. This was something else. We were driving through the Winding Staircase mountain and there were hundreds of them. My wife kept screaming and grabbing my arm while I was driving until I had to stop in the middle of the (empty except for us and the deer) road to calmly explain that she was making the situation significantly worse.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Fences alongside the road and special animal crossings are unfeasible with US roads length, yes?..

        I’ve read that they do that … somewhere.

    • NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      2 months ago

      Edge cases (NOT features) are the thing that keeps them from reaching higher levels of autonomy. These level differences are like “most circumstances”, “nearly all circumstances”, “really all circumstances”.

      Since Tesla cares so much more about features, they will remain on level 2 for another very long time.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      2 months ago

      I’d go even farther and say most driving is an edge case. I used 30 day trial of full self-driving and the results were eye opening. Not how it did: it was pretty much as expected, but looking at where it went wrong.

      Full self driving did very well in “normal” cases, but I never realized just how much of driving was an “edge” case. Lane markers faded? No road edge but the ditch? Construction? Pothole? Debris? Other car does something they shouldn’t have? Traffic lights not aligned in front of you so it’s not clear what lane? Intersection not aligned so you can’t just go straight across? People intruding? Contradictory signs? Signs covered by tree branches? No sight line when turning?

      After that experiment, it seems like “edge” cases are more common than “normal” cases when driving. Humans just handle it without thinking about it, but the car needs more work here

    • bluGill@fedia.io
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      18
      ·
      2 months ago

      Deer on the road is an edge case that humans cannot handle well. In general every option other than hitting the deer is overall worse - which is why most insurance companies won’t increase your rates if you hit a deer and file a claim for repairs.

      The only way to not hit/kill hundreds of deer (thousands? I don’t know the number) every year is to reduce rural speed limits to unreasonably slow speeds. Deer jump out of dark places right in front of cars all the time - the only option to avoid it that might work is either drive in the other lanes (which sometimes means into an oncoming car), or into the ditch (you have no clue what might be there - if you are lucky the car just rolls, but there could be large rocks or strong fence posts and the car stops instantly. Note that this all happens fast, you can’t think you only get to react. Drivers in rural areas are taught to hit the brakes and maintain their lane.

      • dhork@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        53
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        Drivers in rural areas are taught to hit the brakes and maintain their lane.

        Which the Tesla didn’t do. It plowed full speed into the deer, which arguably made the collision much much worse than it could have been. I doubt the thing was programmed to maintain speed into a deer. The more likely alternative is that the FSD couldn’t tell there was a deer there in the first place.

        • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          42
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          Braking dips the hood making it easier for the deer to go into the windshield. You should actually speed up right before hitting to make your hood go up and make it hopefully go under or better stay in the grill.

          • TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            36
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Doesn’t this all depend on the height of your car and the condition of your shocks? Doesn’t seem like a hard and fast rule. Also, you’re assuming rear wheel drive. FWD does not “raise the hood” like you’re playing Cruising USA.

          • dhork@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            24
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            Maybe, but it’s still the case that slowing down will impart less energy to the collision. Let up on the brake before impact if you want, but you should have been braking once you first saw the deer in the road.

            Sometimes those fuckers just jump out at you at the last minute. They’re not smart. But if you click the link, this one was right in the middle of the road, with that “Deer in the headlights” look. There was plenty of time to slow down before impact.

            • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              29
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Conditions matter and your reaction should always be for the worst possible scenario (moose and snow), braking removes your ability to maneuver as well, and locking the brakes up which will almost always happen when you panic break, would be the worst scenario. If there’s snow or rain, braking again is right out.

              If it jumps out and you can’t do anything but brake, you shouldn’t do that, you grip the wheel and maintain speed, and if you can punch the gas for the hood raise. But people panic and can’t think. So maintain speed, don’t panic and lock your brakes up.

              • bluGill@fedia.io
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                10
                ·
                2 months ago

                You should know how to brake without causing maneuver problems (including not locking up the wheels). It is a basic skill needed for many situations. Just keep slowing down, the accelerate just before impact is something that can only be done in movies - any real world attempt will be worse - remember if you keep braking you lose momentum, so the acceleration needs to be perfectly timed or it is worse.

              • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                You know cars have had ABS for a long time, right?

                Speeding up instead of braking is fucking stupid, you’re just increasing the impact force (F=(m*v)/t), and increasing the likelihood of the deer going through your windscreen and killing people.

              • superkret@feddit.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                2 months ago

                In this case, the deer just stood there in the road.
                Any driver and any AI should be able to stop before the obstacle in that case.
                Cause it could be a human, or a fallen tree instead of a deer.

          • troed@fedia.io
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            23
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Please show me that guideline, anywhere.

            /Swede living in the deer countryside

            • NABDad@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              19
              ·
              2 months ago

              Wear gloves when they hand you that guideline because they might be pulling it out of their ass.

              • criitz@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                17
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                I don’t think hitting more gas is going to gently slide the 300 pound buck under my car. It’s just going to increase the impact force.

                • 0x0@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  13
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  Considering suspension, if you accelerate there’s a lowering of the back of the car/raising of the front.

                  Conversely, breaking has the opposite effect, increasing the chances of the deer rolling over your hood and through your windshield.

                  You’ll want to minimize that, hence the acceleration.

                  • criitz@reddthat.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    Read the other comments in this thread for why it doesn’t work like that

                  • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    When you learn how to drive you’ll understand why everything you’re saying is nonsense.

                • 0x0@programming.dev
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  A moving vehicle in real life is a bit more complicated of an equation, factor in the car’s angle towards the horizontal as you accelerate or brake, that’s the original point, but whatever.

                  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    factor in the car’s angle towards the horizontal as you accelerate or brake

                    So almost zero difference. Cars do not rock back and forth like a yo-yo when they accelerate or brake.

                    Now factor in the difference of force between hitting something at 40 and hitting something at 80 or more.

                  • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 months ago

                    You and that other person trying to argue this are probably the dumbest people I’ve ever seen on this site.

            • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              24
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Right before hitting begin the keyword. If you can stop before hitting yes that’s ideal, but in situations where it jumps out and you can’t react. Braking during impact is the worst thing you can do.

              If you think I’m saying to line it up and accelerate for 200meters, I dont know what to say about that,

              • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                7
                ·
                2 months ago

                Dude, the article just said to hit the brakes “if you can’t avoid hitting a deer”, the exact scenario you described… Did you even open it?

            • bluGill@fedia.io
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              2 months ago

              I don’t know, where I live giraffes are only in the zoo and thus never on the road. I’m not aware of any escaping the zoo.

              I’m sure if I lived around wild deere, my training would include that, but since I don’t I was able to save some time by not learning that.

                • bluGill@fedia.io
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  I’ve never been in a zoo I’m allowed to drive more thln e wheelchair through. They may require extra training - I would not know

            • SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              27
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Same for a moose? Speed up so you clear it before gravity caves your car roof.

              You maintain speed, you can’t maneuver well if braking, and as stated your hood dips while braking too which can cause worse issues.

              • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                12
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                The whole premise of ABS brakes, which all cars made in North America since 2012 will have, is specifically to allow you to maintain control when you fully apply the brakes. Unless you are a professional driver or have a car without ABS, you should just fully apply the brakes in an emergency stop. Please stop telling people that fully applying the brakes will reduce manueverability when it won’t for the majority of drivers in the developed world.

                And if someone’s vehicle doesn’t have ABS, they should know how to properly brake without locking their tires, and when it won’t be appropriate to use them.

              • Aphelion@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                10
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                That’s a good strategy to ensure you die: a mooses torso is already higher than the hood of a lot of SUVs, so you’re taking a moose to the face.

              • Slowy@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                11
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                No, for moose you are actually supposed to swerve and risk the ditch.

      • Hubi@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        32
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        The problem is not that the deer was hit, a human driver may have done so as well. The actual issue is that the car didn’t do anything to avoid hitting it. It didn’t even register that the deer was there and, what’s even worse, that there was an accident. It just continued on as if nothing happened.

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          2 months ago

          Yeah, the automated system should be better than a human. That is the whole point of collision detection systems!

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            Right. I was trying to decide whether to mention that deer can be hard to spot in time. Even in the middle of the road like this, they’re non-reflective and there may be no movement to catch the eye. It’s very possible for a human to be zoning out and not notice this deer in time

            But yeah, this is where we need the car to help. This is what the car should be better than human with. This is what would make ai a good tool to improve safety. If it saw the deer

        • snooggums@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          ·
          2 months ago

          If tesla also used radar or other sensing systems instead of limiting themselves to only cameras then being in the dark wouldn’t be an issue.

      • IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        Deer on the road is an edge case that humans cannot handle well.

        If I’m driving at dawn or dusk, when they’re moving around in low light I’m extra careful when driving. I’m scanning the treeline, the sides of the road, the median etc because I know there’s a decent chance I’ll see them and I can slow down in case they make a run across the road. So far I’ve seen several hundred deer and I haven’t hit any of them.

        Tesla makes absolutely no provision in this regard.

        This whole FSD thing is a massive failure of oversight, no car should be doing self driving without using cameras and radar and Tesla should be forced to refund the suckers customers who paid for this feature.

        • bluGill@fedia.io
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          Sure, I do that too. I also have had damage because a deer I didn’t see jumped out of the trees onto the road. (Though as others pointed out this case the deer was on the road with plenty of time to stop (or at least greatly slow down), but the Tesla did nothing.

      • 0x0@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        2 months ago

        In general every option other than hitting the deer is overall worse

        You’re wrong. The clear solution here is to open suicide-prevention clinics for the depressed deer.

    • nialv7@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      2 months ago

      Yeah this Tesla owner is dumb. wdym “we just need to train the AI to know what deer butts look like”? Tesla had radar and sonar, it didn’t need to know what a deer’s butt looks like because radar would’ve told it something was there! But they took it away because Musk had the genius idea of only using cameras for whatever reason.

    • tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      Sunk cost? Tech worship?

      I’m so jaded, I question my wife when she says the sun will rise tomorrow so I really don’t get it either.